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"Do not go on the track" : is this all going too far.......

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Harbornite

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It's not about DOO and we shouldn't discuss it further. My point was sometimes people challenge ideas, and question rules, and that's not always a bad idea.

Indeed, and the people on this thread had successfully debunked the arguments put forward by Justin Smith before you got involved. Leave the DOO bullcrap in the DOO thread, it's not relevant here.
 
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Flamingo

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At this point, I think the best way of coping with Highdyke is just put him on "ignore".

It's not like I'm going to miss out on anything useful, informative or entertaining.
 

Harbornite

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At this point, I think the best way of coping with Highdyke is just put him on "ignore".

It's not like I'm going to miss out on anything useful, informative or entertaining.

He's not the only one. Some people just cannot accept that they are wrong when it comes to justifying trespass at a busy station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You've missed the point by a country mile...but no worries carry on.

No I haven't. You missed the topic of the thread by briging up DOO in a strange attempt at justifying criticism of the rules. DOO and trespass are very different issues, your posts have missed the point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder if the people here in favour of trespass would change their minds if they were tasked with cleaning the remains of a dead human off the front of a train?
 
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highdyke

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Very laudable regarding the friendliness, but, fundamentally, railway trespass is illegal, dangerous and causes hugely disproportional delay so there really aren't two sides of a 'debate' here. Now, possibly if the question had been 'should it be made legal' to do what the OP briefly considered doing, the responses may have been a little different (but not very, I suspect).

Oh I agree, but always better to keep it friendly!
 

Three-Nine

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At smaller stations and those where track crossings have been removed station staff may not have the necessary permissions to go down onto the track, so yes, in that situation if the object in question is a distance away from the platform edge it might not be retrievable immediately.

Couple of personal experiences. I've occasionally had to tell people off for sitting with their knees over the platform edge. They always give me the "surly teenager" look (regardless of their actual age) because I'm obviously being a jobsworth and what would I know?

A former colleague of mine was a on a train that struck someone doing that. The person survived but they won't be getting on a train unassisted again.

Whilst I try and keep an eye on what trains are doing, I'm not omnipotent. I once had a diverted high-speed service go through the station; the first warning I had was when it was passing. It would have been nice to have been informed beforehand, but in that instance for whatever reason I wasn't.

Even if everything is set up correctly, you can still have incidents like those track workers who were killed by a runaway work trolley because it turned out the contractor had sloppy maintenance practices.

Edit: I used the phrase "tell people off", which does give an impression of being a jobsworth. It would be more accurate to say that I request that people place their legs back in a position of safety.
 
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Antman

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No, it's because you cannot resist an argument.

There is no other reason to bring the DOO argument over to this thread other than for that purpose.

I'd prefer to call it healthy debate rather than arguing. This forum would be pretty boring if we all had to agree wouldn't it?
 

Darandio

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I'd prefer to call it healthy debate rather than arguing. This forum would be pretty boring if we all had to agree wouldn't it?

There are thousands of other threads, feel free to disagree on them all.

Disagreeing in this thread is to do it for the sake of disagreeing.
 

Bromley boy

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Very laudable regarding the friendliness, but, fundamentally, railway trespass is illegal, dangerous and causes hugely disproportional delay so there really aren't two sides of a 'debate' here. Now, possibly if the question had been 'should it be made legal' to do what the OP briefly considered doing, the responses may have been a little different (but not very, I suspect).

That is an interesting point. It is unfortunate that we live in a litigious society which is increasingly devoid of basic common sense. You would think it very obvious that any form of trespass on the railway is dangerous and stupid but apparently it is not! I do sometimes wonder if this lack of common sense is made worse by health and safety rules which increasingly wrap us in cotton wool. Do I as a grown man really need a written warning that a cup of coffee I buy is hot?!?!

The other unfortunate aspect of our mollycoddled society is the much feted "duty of care" owed by the railway to even the stupidest of users. Perhaps we should remove health and safety rules in their entirety and simultaneously roll-back the "duty of care" owed so that the people skateboarding/cycling on platforms, jumping level crossing lights, trainsurfers etc. do so firmly at their own risk with no prospect of manslaughter charges/blame being attributed to the railway or its staff when they come a cropper!
 
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Flying_Turtle

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Which his why we have tightened up the legislation to ensure this does not happen without the signallers consent.
The problem is that "you can't jump to the track" . You must access it through the platform ends (assuming a regular platform configuration ). The line protection is, therefore of at least 5 minutes (assuming all procedures).
The LUL procedures are way more fun... and a bit excessive in a certain point

PS - i m replying to this considering the post it replied to where in the old days you just put a high viz vest and off we went.
 
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Antman

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There are thousands of other threads, feel free to disagree on them all.

Disagreeing in this thread is to do it for the sake of disagreeing.

Anybody can disagree on any thread they wish to.
 

lincolnshire

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I see our man never answered my post as to how did the man with the litter picker get his phone back ? did he just bend down or did he have to lay on the platform to reach it?

At his age he should know better than suggest just hoping down and back up again to collect his precious phone.

How many people who have added to this post have actually gone down off the platform and onto the track and back up again in the course of there duties? as its not as easy as people make out to just hop down and back up.

Just another comment how many have climbed onto the platform at a Royal Mail Loading Depot then? now they are bloody high platform edges when you are down on the tracks.
 

richieb1971

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I've been in these debates before. The fact is, in certain circumstances like at Barrow Hill trains run around you at 5mph all the time, nobody died.

But to stop the flood gates opening with a "free for all" attitude, the rules must stick and everyone on the railway is sticking to policies that absolutely don't let anyone on the railway under any circumstances.

I get both sides. But with safety going into extreme levels like not being able to stand on the end of a platform, putting 7 foot high walls on road bridges so only people on double decker buses can see the railway. It makes you wonder if the RAILWAY has suddenly become too dangerous for our society in 2016 and going forward?
 

DarloRich

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This thread is gold and is drawing out all the silly spotters - whilst I am sure they know best I think I will happily stick to the rules - trains go on the tracks not untrained unauthorised experts
 

Harbornite

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Of course, but to see disagreement in this thread defies belief.

I cannot believe how silly you are making yourself look.

I agree. Defending trespass is pretty poor and hard to justify, some people enjoy being contrary for the sake of it.
 

Philip Phlopp

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...putting 7 foot high walls on road bridges so only people on double decker buses can see the railway.

That's safety catching up to the issues presented by Oxshott (the cement mixer) and Froxfield (damage caused by tractor). The (unsatisfactory) restraint capabilities of both parapets and the ability for debris to hit the line under the bridge have rather focused minds.
 

Harbornite

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I get both sides. But with safety going into extreme levels like not being able to stand on the end of a platform, putting 7 foot high walls on road bridges so only people on double decker buses can see the railway. It makes you wonder if the RAILWAY has suddenly become too dangerous for our society in 2016 and going forward?

This post shows your lack of understanding. If the railway was too dangerous for society in 2016 as you have spouted, then why are there not barriers along platform edges with gates corresponding to the locations of train doors? This measure is not being rolled out across the country's railway network, once again indicating that your post is ill informed, hyperbolic crap.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Health & Safety "went mad" because thousands of people used to be killed in the workplace every year - that figure is down to hundreds.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I would like to reiterate to a couple of posters that appear to be picking fights for the sake of it rather than healthy discussion to my earlier post:

I would like to add that despite the very low speed of trains at Platform 8, remember that William Husskinson had the dubious honour of being the very first fatality when he got knocked over by Stephenson's Rocket on the Liverpool & Manchester Railway.

The top speed of The Rocket back then was a mere 17mph.

To sum up, never attempt to retrieve a fallen object yourself. Speak to a member of railway staff and they will do their best for you. Remember, there is no contest between a human body and a huge lump of metal that is approaching you at any speed.

I can sense that one of the mods will be along to either lock or delete the whole thread before today ends.
 

EM2

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It makes you wonder if the RAILWAY has suddenly become too dangerous for our society in 2016 and going forward?
The railway has always been dangerous. And as time has gone on, procedures, standards and laws have been introduced to mitigate that danger. If something happens that those have not prevented, then they will be changed to try and make sure that it doesn't happen again.
 

Antman

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This post shows your lack of understanding. If the railway was too dangerous for society in 2016 as you have spouted, then why are there not barriers along platform edges with gates corresponding to the locations of train doors? This measure is not being rolled out across the country's railway network, once again indicating that your post is ill informed, hyperbolic crap.

Can you really not be polite to anybody? You're inability to grasp any opinion other than your own says a lot about you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Of course, but to see disagreement in this thread defies belief.

I cannot believe how silly you are making yourself look.

You're the only one looking stupid, when reasoned debate fails resort to abuse eh? Keep digging yourself deeper into that hole:roll:
 

Harbornite

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Can you really not be polite to anybody? You're inability to grasp any opinion other than your own says a lot about you.

No, it says that I'm able to use logic to decide whether or not someone is posting nonsense, as you have done. You don't seem to like it when people respond to your points, well that's what a forum is for: discussion.

You are basically saying that railway staff are wrong to moan at people for trying to retrieve things from the railway track. Why don't you try cleaning the remains of someone who has been hit by a train while trying to do that?



Some people :roll:
 

Antman

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The railway has always been dangerous. And as time has gone on, procedures, standards and laws have been introduced to mitigate that danger. If something happens that those have not prevented, then they will be changed to try and make sure that it doesn't happen again.

The railway is potentially dangerous as are a whole host of other things!
 

Harbornite

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I would like to reiterate to a couple of posters that appear to be picking fights for the sake of it rather than healthy discussion to my earlier post:



I can sense that one of the mods will be along to either lock or delete the whole thread before today ends.

That post sums it up well. This thread is going in circles because some people seem to have an aversion to following the rules.
 

Llanigraham

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I've been accused of digging a hole as well by somebody else, seems anybody that puts forward an alternative view gets similarly accused;)

And like the OP your alternative views are contrary to the safe method of working employed by the railway.
Keep digging!
 

Harbornite

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You're the only one looking stupid, when reasoned debate fails resort to abuse eh? Keep digging yourself deeper into that hole:roll:

At least Darandio doesn't copy and paste earlier posts! Just accept that it is you who has dug a rather deep hole and has failed to debate with reason.
 

Antman

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No, it says that I'm able to use logic to decide whether or not someone is posting nonsense, as you have done. You don't seem to like it when people respond to your points, well that's what a forum is for: discussion.

You are basically saying that railway staff are wrong to moan at people for trying to retrieve things from the railway track. Why don't you try cleaning the remains of someone who has been hit by a train while trying to do that?



Some people :roll:

I didn't say any such thing but you carry on digging yourself into that hole.

Oh and I used to do recovery work, do you want to see the aftermath of a serious RTA?

Now if you don't mind I'm off to enjoy the sun.
 

Harbornite

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I didn't say any such thing but you carry on digging yourself into that hole.

Oh and I used to do recovery work, do you want to see the aftermath of a serious RTA?

Now if you don't mind I'm off to enjoy the sun.

I already have done. No one really cares what you are doing if I'm honest.
 
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I've only just noticed the OP's 'signature' - he seems to have set himself up as some sort of crusader against 'Health and Safety'. While some H&S may be OTT (putting yellow cones on every splash of water on a concrete path, for example), railway rules are not - they are there to ensure not only the safety of individuals, but the avoidance of massive delays arising from one person's actions.

the majority of 'anti Health and safety' posters/ commentators are

1. trolls

2. People demonstrating that the are unaware of what they don't know *i.e. unconsciously incompetent.
 

Darandio

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You're the only one looking stupid, when reasoned debate fails resort to abuse eh? Keep digging yourself deeper into that hole:roll:

I believe that it is irresponsible, dangerous and illegal for anyone to retrieve items from the track of their own accord.

That makes me look stupid, abusive and means I am digging a hole?
 
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