Dmu's with buffet cars

[Taunton]

I didn't say every service was carrying vast amounts of mail and parcels all day, every day, all year, did I? The dmus needed to be able to handle whatever loads were piled into them.

That's really a unique case, the first southbound and last northbound Central Wales trains were really the postal service, which had for long run vans through from York to Swansea but was curtailed at Shrewsbury. It's unreasonable to have built the 100 WR cross-country units with this wasted space just to suit this one operation, which only converted from loco to dmu when the units were about 10 years old.

The Scottish Region handled this better, and stripped out all the seats from a few former WR single units, turning them into parcels cars, which multipled with the normal dmu provided. I once escorted some USA visitors from Inverness to Edinburgh, changing at Stirling, where a 3-car Met Cam was waiting in the bay, where I ushered them into the frontmost seats for an impressive view on the last lap. Five minutes before departure one of these single parcels cars crept out of a siding and coupled up right in front of us. End of view.

 

[47271]

They're still very much with us, but the ex Hull Trains 170s used by Scotrail count as nostalgia in that their buffet counters are still there but haven't been used in over ten years.

The idea was that they'd use them for Inverness services but only once did I ever see a counter open and the boiler switched on in an Edinburgh to Inverness train, probably in late 2006.

Then they pulled out the First Class seats - which were extremely comfortable if a strange shade of green - and replaced them with the usual Scotrail Standards, and that was the end of the first post privatisation attempt at inter city quality on Scottish internal routes.

So now if anyone wants to open a buffet counter on a Fife Circle service then that could be possible just about any day of the week!

 

[delt1c]

The 120s worked Aberdeen - Inverness until 1980 (from railcar.co.uk), and while I really don't have any memories of travelling on these units, I don't recall my parents grumbling about the inability to get a cup of tea (trust me, I would have remembered this!), so I assume they would have retained their buffets later than most. When the services went over to loco haulage there always seemed to be an RMB in the formation.

Used the Inverness to Aberdeen 120 on quite a few occasions and buffet always open. Only problem was a lot were 2x3 car so you had to make sure you got into the unit with the operational Buffet.

 

[hexagon789]

They're still very much with us, but the ex Hull Trains 170s used by Scotrail count as nostalgia in that their buffet counters are still there but haven't been used in over ten years.

The idea was that they'd use them for Inverness services but only once did I ever see a counter open and the boiler switched on in an Edinburgh to Inverness train, probably in late 2006.

Then they pulled out the First Class seats - which were extremely comfortable if a strange shade of green - and replaced them with the usual Scotrail Standards, and that was the end of the first post privatisation attempt at inter city quality on Scottish internal routes.

So now if anyone wants to open a buffet counter on a Fife Circle service then that could be possible just about any day of the week!

I thought they'd all finally been removed last year?

 

[Highlandspring]

I thought they'd all finally been removed last year?

They were.

 

[hexagon789]

They were.

Took them long enough.

 

[Indigo Soup]

The idea was that they'd use them for Inverness services but only once did I ever see a counter open and the boiler switched on in an Edinburgh to Inverness train, probably in late 2006.

As I understand it, the issue was that with only four units you couldn't be sure that

• There would be a buffet set on the Inverness run, or
• If it was on that run, it would stay on that run

As a result, passengers couldn't be sure whether it would be available or not, so uptake was poor and the service was withdrawn due to lack of use.

 

[jimm]

That's really a unique case, the first southbound and last northbound Central Wales trains were really the postal service, which had for long run vans through from York to Swansea but was curtailed at Shrewsbury. It's unreasonable to have built the 100 WR cross-country units with this wasted space just to suit this one operation, which only converted from loco to dmu when the units were about 10 years old.

The Scottish Region handled this better, and stripped out all the seats from a few former WR single units, turning them into parcels cars, which multipled with the normal dmu provided. I once escorted some USA visitors from Inverness to Edinburgh, changing at Stirling, where a 3-car Met Cam was waiting in the bay, where I ushered them into the frontmost seats for an impressive view on the last lap. Five minutes before departure one of these single parcels cars crept out of a siding and coupled up right in front of us. End of view.

The Central Wales trains may have been unusual for the Western Region, in that they carried a substantial volume of post day in, day out (though I suspect people may be able to remember other examples) but as I said above, in the run-up to Christmas the volumes of mail being carried at all hours of the day, on all kinds of trains (dmus included) across the country, into the 1980s, could quite easily fill up a guard's compartment in big piles, with 'aisles' left for the guard to get to the doors and along the train. Where else were they supposed to put all that post?

The idea that the guards compartments were wasted space, given the different times in which the first generation dmus were designed and worked for most of their lives, is just wrong.

Though that description could certainly be applied to the buffets on most cross-country sets, but with BR always strapped for cash, giving them the treatment that the Reading-Gatwick Class 119s got to make extra luggage space for airline passengers with big suitcases presumably wasn't a priority - in which regard, the guard's compartments also came in handy on that route.

The buffets were still in use on Class 120s on Cardiff-Crewe services until January 1976, according to rail.co.uk

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/operations-central-wales

 

[47271]

As I understand it, the issue was that with only four units you couldn't be sure that

• There would be a buffet set on the Inverness run, or
• If it was on that run, it would stay on that run

As a result, passengers couldn't be sure whether it would be available or not, so uptake was poor and the service was withdrawn due to lack of use.

I don't think it even got as far as the 'couldn't be sure' stage, and uptake will have been poor if the service barely existed in the first place!

I thought they'd all finally been removed last year?

Oh, maybe they were. Funnily enough I've travelled on a few of the ex HT units on the Highland Main Line in the last couple of months and just assumed that the buffet was still there, I never actually went to look.

So have they just dropped in another seating bay in the space?

 

[hexagon789]

Oh, maybe they were. Funnily enough I've travelled on a few of the ex HT units on the Highland Main Line in the last couple of months and just assumed that the buffet was still there, I never actually went to look.

So have they just dropped in another seating bay in the space?

Assuming they fitted the area out akin to the other suburban units, the entire space would seat 14 including the existing table bay - an increase of 10 seats.

I presume the toilet is still present at the opposite end of the vehicle, otherwise that would gain about another 7 seats.

 

[Taunton]

The Class 120 used on Aberdeen-Inverness were also a modified subset, with Manson's automatic tablet exchangers for the single line sections, taken from scrapped steam locomotives, fitted to an indentation in the outside of the guards' compartment; conceiveably they could have included some original components from the 1880s design. It was not practical for the dmu driver to handle these devices (on steam locos the fireman did so), so the guard now did it, and there were special buzzer codes for tablet successfully exchanged at speed (and doubtless for a sudden stop if not so).

I presume by the time the current units on that line came along this form of working had all long disappeared. I believe the exchanger devices were a personal patent of Manson himself, onetime chief engineer on the line, but he refused any royalties for it, seeing it as a safety device for loco and signalling staff.