Dmu's with buffet cars

[davmet]

As tread title says,does anyone know which dmu's had buffet cars. I know the class 124 had them but we're their anyothers

 

[Quakkerillo]

From wikipedia: 119, 120, 123 had them too

 

[big all]

6 car transpennine class 124s and a few 4 car metrocamells as well

 

[randyrippley]

119 and 120 certainly had small buffet counters, but my experience on the Weymouth line is that they weren't staffed after ~1966. They were usually used as a luggage dump

 

[theageofthetra]

Hastings Diesels did

 

[rick_suffolk]

Anglia’s 3 car class 170201-170208 when first built, subsequently removed and replaced by seating

 

[Taunton]

The WR had a large number, all their Cross Country units, from Swindon and Gloucester RCW had them, nearly 100 3-car units overall.

The buffets were hardly used, in fact I NEVER saw one in use. The units were mostly used anyway on services where buffet facilities were not relevant. Furthermore they were not really regarded as such - in the 1960s it was common at Bristol for a suburban unit to be sent to Weymouth alongside a cross country unit on Severn Beach. Quite a number ran round long term as 2-car units without the centre trailer anyway.

 

[big all]

all the 119 Gloucester units when they reached reading at there first paint had all the buffet compartments converted to luggage racks

 

[Indigo Soup]

Not quite what you meant - but 220s, 221s, 222s and some 170s were also built with buffet counters. For some reason (presumably so people didn't realise they were on a train) Virgin decided to brand theirs as shops, and the buffets on Cross-Country and Scotrail units were removed.

And then there's the question of whether you count Classes 253 and 254...

 

[AndyCK]

From wikipedia: 119, 120, 123 had them too

Class 111’s had them as well. I believe the only surviving Class 111 car is the Trailer Second Buffet Lavatory car in use at the GCR, number 59575

 

[hexagon789]

As tread title says,does anyone know which dmu's had buffet cars. I know the class 124 had them but we're their anyothers

101/111, 119, 120, 123, 124, 126 (only 2 buffet cars, and not used post-1968 being transferred to work with the Edinburgh and Glasgow units), Swindon 79xxx InterCity DMUs.

 

[Taunton]

The WR cross-country (119 and 120) units were very inefficient internally. They had a notably large first class at one driving end, which you hardly ever saw anybody in, and the guards compartment was also supersized compared to other dmus. A quite small standard class saloon, just 16 seats, came betwen the two. Along with the unused buffet area in the trailer, it meant that one-third of all these 3-car sets was effectively wasted.

The Swindon units' predecessors off the production line, the Scottish Inter-City cars on Glasgow-Edinburgh, are the only ones I have heard reported as making consistent use of the buffets on the Glasgow-Edinburgh runs, even there only at certain times on weekdays.

Regarding the Met Cam buffet cars, delivered to the NER, if I am not mistaken these were not part of a normal set but were delivered "loose", after the bulk of the Met Cam cars had been built, to just be incorporated in other sets as required.

 

[WesternLancer]

i recall taking DMUs on the swindon to gloucester route in about 1980 and noting the buffet counters shut up and out of use - I was about 12 years old and wondered when they were open if ever! Clearly from posts here, not for some years it would seem. I guess the cars concerned had not at the time been refurbed in any way so these were original counter fittings at the time.

 

[hexagon789]

The Swindon units' predecessors off the production line, the Scottish Inter-City cars on Glasgow-Edinburgh, are the only ones I have heard reported as making consistent use of the buffets on the Glasgow-Edinburgh runs, even there only at certain times on weekdays.

In 1962 pretty much every service is booked as having a buffet service. By the time of the sets withdrawal in 1972, they were reduced to 5-cars sans buffets.

Regarding the Met Cam buffet cars, delivered to the NER, if I am not mistaken these were not part of a normal set but were delivered "loose", after the bulk of the Met Cam cars had been built, to just be incorporated in other sets as required

Yes, to be used with 101s or 111s as required. I believe their earliest use was on Newcastle-Carlisle.

i recall taking DMUs on the swindon to gloucester route in about 1980 and noting the buffet counters shut up and out of use - I was about 12 years old and wondered when they were open if ever! Clearly from posts here, not for some years it would seem. I guess the cars concerned had not at the time been refurbed in any way so these were original counter fittings at the time.

Some classes had the full buffet cars them removed such as the 123s and 124s. Others kept the vehicles but with buffet out of use.

At a guess the longer set classes (4-car 123s and 6-car 124s), lost them because they didn't include a significant amount of seating. Others such a 120s probably kept them because being shorter sets and with only 8 fewer seats than a non-buffet trailer they would've lost too much capacity.

 

[GusB]

The 120s worked Aberdeen - Inverness until 1980 (from railcar.co.uk), and while I really don't have any memories of travelling on these units, I don't recall my parents grumbling about the inability to get a cup of tea (trust me, I would have remembered this!), so I assume they would have retained their buffets later than most. When the services went over to loco haulage there always seemed to be an RMB in the formation.

 

[big all]

The 120s worked Aberdeen - Inverness until 1980 (from railcar.co.uk), and while I really don't have any memories of travelling on these units, I don't recall my parents grumbling about the inability to get a cup of tea (trust me, I would have remembered this!), so I assume they would have retained their buffets later than most. When the services went over to loco haulage there always seemed to be an RMB in the formation.

wasnt it perhaps 3 or 5 units for the north off scotland had the second class section on the motor brake composite converted to carry fish so infact makng them a motor first
others may back me up or shoot me down in flames

 

[hexagon789]

wasnt it perhaps 3 or 5 units for the north off scotland had the second class section on the motor brake composite converted to carry fish so infact makng them a motor first
others may back me up or shoot me down in flames

Can't remember the exact purpose but an number of Scottish 120s did indeed have the guard's van extended into the Second class saloon making them Driving Motor Brake First (DMBF).

 

[edwin_m]

The 120s worked Aberdeen - Inverness until 1980 (from railcar.co.uk), and while I really don't have any memories of travelling on these units, I don't recall my parents grumbling about the inability to get a cup of tea (trust me, I would have remembered this!), so I assume they would have retained their buffets later than most. When the services went over to loco haulage there always seemed to be an RMB in the formation.

I made this journey in summer 1979 and recall being surprised to find a DMU with a buffet car, so I'm fairly sure it was open for service.

 

[hexagon789]

I made this journey in summer 1979 and recall being surprised to find a DMU with a buffet car, so I'm fairly sure it was open for service.

The was also a 3-car 101 with buffet sent to Inverness as a spare for the 120s, on at least one occasion it's buffet car substituted for a 120 buffet car in a 3-car 120 set.

The 120s were replaced by loco-hauled trains of vacuum-braked Mk1s, typically - a BG full brake, 2 SK (Second Corridor), RMB (Restaurant Miniature Buffet), 2 SK.

By the late 1980s sets were early Mk2 Tourist Second Opens (TSO) and a Mk1 Brake First Corridor (BFK) in the centre with no buffet car, though I think a trolley was provided in common with other longer-distance Scottish internal services.

 

[edwin_m]

There was at least one ex-buffet in the fleet of 101s on the Fife Circle in 1978-1981, with the counter apparently intact but never operational.

 

[Taunton]

What was actually in the dmu buffets ?

Water boiler?
Oven or similar?
Sink etc?
Refrigerator?
Food prep counters?
Crockery storage?
Water tanks over?
LPG gas tanks under?

Could a loaded trolley be wheeled directly in and used to serve from? Was everything (crockery/cutlery etc) put in and out for each roster?

I presume with 1960 technology there was no microwave or coffee machine!

 

[hexagon789]

What was actually in the dmu buffets ?

Water boiler?
Oven or similar?
Sink etc?
Refrigerator?
Food prep counters?
Crockery storage?
Water tanks over?
LPG gas tanks under?

Could a loaded trolley be wheeled directly in and used to serve from? Was everything (crockery/cutlery etc) put in and out for each roster?

I presume with 1960 technology there was no microwave or coffee machine!

The railcar site offers the following description for a Class 120 buffet:

"Small collapsible tables were fitted against the side walls at each pair of seats, so that refreshments could be served from the small buffet counter kitchen. This had a small hot-water boiler burning propane stored on the underframe and an electric refrigerator, store cupboard, sink, display cases and shelves."

I imagine the 101/111 buffet cars were similar.

Those fitted in Swindon InterCity 79xxx, Class 123, 134 and 126 were all more substantial I understand with a larger galley kitchen.

The railcars site has plans for all the DMU vehicles, so you can see the layouts for each of the various buffet cars yourself.

 

[hexagon789]

I presume with 1960 technology there was no microwave or coffee machine!

No microwaves, but I'm sure some had a coffee machine. Certainly the GWR buffet railcars had one!

 

[Helvellyn]

One of the Class 123 buffet cars (59831) was converted to replace an accident damaged Class 309 griddle car.

 

[big all]

One of the Class 123 buffet cars (59831) was converted to replace an accident damaged Class 309 griddle car.

didnt a 123 buffet finish up as a old oak common breakdown crane vehicle in the 70s ??

 

[hexagon789]

One of the Class 123 buffet cars (59831) was converted to replace an accident damaged Class 309 griddle car.

Presumably because the B4 bogies allowed it to run at 100mph without modifications other than twin-pipe vacuum to auto air/EP braking.

 

[jimm]

The WR cross-country (119 and 120) units were very inefficient internally. They had a notably large first class at one driving end, which you hardly ever saw anybody in, and the guards compartment was also supersized compared to other dmus. A quite small standard class saloon, just 16 seats, came betwen the two. Along with the unused buffet area in the trailer, it meant that one-third of all these 3-car sets was effectively wasted.

You seem to be forgetting that substantial volumes of mail and newspaper traffic (and BR Red Star parcels) were being carried on all kinds of train until the mid-1980s. The space in the guard's compartment was far from wasted - it was earning BR a lot of money.

I travelled a couple of times in the late 70s and early 80s on Western Region Class 120s working the service to Swansea that left Shrewsbury around 4am and connected out of the York-Shrewsbury travelling post office. They needed every bit of room in the guard's compartment for all the post that was headed into Central Wales. I expect it was no different in many of the other places the cross-country sets were used.

I can also remember riding to and from school on Class 101s, 110s, etc in West Yorkshire ahead of Christmases when a Western Region-sized guard's compartment would have come in handy to cope with the mountains of mailbags being carried.

First class may have been over-generous but the 119s and 120s weren't unique. Class 110s had first class compartments at both ends of a three-car set and there were Met-Camm four-sets with the same arrangement.

 

[randyrippley]

What was actually in the dmu buffets ?

Water boiler?
Oven or similar?
Sink etc?
Refrigerator?
Food prep counters?
Crockery storage?
Water tanks over?
LPG gas tanks under?

Could a loaded trolley be wheeled directly in and used to serve from? Was everything (crockery/cutlery etc) put in and out for each roster?

I presume with 1960 technology there was no microwave or coffee machine!

Its only half a memory.........but my recollection is that on the WR cross country sets coffee was Nescafe in pre-charged waxed paper cups, just add water. Tea was in an urn, hot water in another. No hot food. Sarnies were in white paper bags on the display counter, no fridge. Cold sausage rolls, Robinsons fruit pies, wrapped slabs of fruit cake. Plastic cartons of "Kia-Ora" orange, don't remember any fizzy drinks. Choccy bars. Sweets and ciggys. Bottles of beer.
In other words, everything was disposable - no crockery, no cooking, just water boiling. It was more a snack shop than a buffet.
And yes I think it was rolled on on a trolley, but not sold from the trolley

 

[randyrippley]

You seem to be forgetting that substantial volumes of mail and newspaper traffic (and BR Red Star parcels) were being carried on all kinds of train until the mid-1980s. The space in the guard's compartment was far from wasted - it was earning BR a lot of money.

I travelled a couple of times in the late 70s and early 80s on Western Region Class 120s working the service to Swansea that left Shrewsbury around 4am and connected out of the York-Shrewsbury travelling post office. They needed every bit of room in the guard's compartment for all the post that was headed into Central Wales. I expect it was no different in many of the other places the cross-country sets were used.

I can also remember riding to and from school on Class 101s, 110s, etc in West Yorkshire ahead of Christmases when a Western Region-sized guard's compartment would have come in handy to cope with the mountains of mailbags being carried.

First class may have been over-generous but the 119s and 120s weren't unique. Class 110s had first class compartments at both ends of a three-car set and there were Met-Camm four-sets with the same arrangement.

That may have been true for certain services, but my experience on the Weymouth line was that the guards compartment was a total waste of space. Most times it seemed to run empty - or on busy trains got used as overspill "sit on the floor" accommodation

 

[jimm]

That may have been true for certain services, but my experience on the Weymouth line was that the guards compartment was a total waste of space. Most times it seemed to run empty - or on busy trains got used as overspill "sit on the floor" accommodation

I didn't say every service was carrying vast amounts of mail and parcels all day, every day, all year, did I? The dmus needed to be able to handle whatever loads were piled into them, even if it was only on a couple of trains a day in the case of the Central Wales Line, with the last northbound service of the day picking up the post being sent out of the area.