DM in cab

[strange6]

Travelling home from manchester today and not one but two company men got in the cab with the driver. One of them was very neatly dressed in Northern colours with a pinkish tie and the other in normal Northern uniform. I was pretty sure at least one of them was management and It got me thinking about the driver. There must be a hell of a lot of pressure when you have the boss in the cab with you, watching your every move and although every driver is a committed professional, it can't be a very pleasant experience for them. I noticed the braking was smoother and slower than usual as well! The bloke in the pink tie looked quite miserable as well! Anyway, lad did a good job of getting me home so credit it to him lol

 

[Minilad]

I must admit when I have a DTM on board it does put me slightly on edge. The DTMs at my depot are all good blokes but you still have that feeling of them watching your every move. I usually just try to be natural and do things how I would always do them. The couple of days after I always open my pigeon hole with trepidation in case I transgressed some strange diktat inadvertently and they require me in the office !! Hasn't happened yet I hasten to add

 

[strange6]

I must admit when I have a DTM on board it does put me slightly on edge. The DTMs at my depot are all good blokes but you still have that feeling of them watching your every move. I usually just try to be natural and do things how I would always do them. The couple of days after I always open my pigeon hole with trepidation in case I transgressed some strange diktat inadvertently and they require me in the office !! Hasn't happened yet I hasten to add

Good on ya! Not a nice feeling when somebody is watching you

 

[1V53]

They have to do ride assessments regularly to assess performance, as do guards. Most seem to be quite easygoing at ATW, in most cases its a 'tick the boxes' exercise. Most of our guys seem quite laid back about the experience but some react better to monitoring than others!

 

[O L Leigh]

It honestly doesn't bother me. I know they're watching how I drive even when they're not right there with me, so I just drive how I normally drive. They will see how things vary from what they saw on your last download.

If anything I quite enjoy it because it gives me a chance for a good natter. I've found out far more from DM's when they ride with me than from official channels.

O L Leigh

 

[strange6]

It honestly doesn't bother me. I know they're watching how I drive even when they're not right there with me, so I just drive how I normally drive. They will see how things vary from what they saw on your last download.

If anything I quite enjoy it because it gives me a chance for a good natter. I've found out far more from DM's when they ride with me than from official channels.

O L Leigh

It's always best to have a friendly relationship with your guvnors. You feel more at ease and besides, they'll probably be picking up more infor from you considering you do that all day every day and they don't!

And who examins the DM's by the way?

 

[Mr D River73]

It used to be a bit unsettling having DM's in the Cab, but now, i've become quite used to it and feel relatively at ease. Although, i have to say, my DM has an uncanny knack of appearing on the Platform just after i've dropped my Guts! Normally, the smell disappears relatively quickly, but when a DM climbs aboard, it lingers for about 10 minutes.

I quite often get asked questions, ( When we're not running under cautionary Signals of course!) , which i don't mind, as these answers are then eliminated from your next rules Exam.

 

[driver9000]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's nice to have a bit of company sometimes.

The way I drive when a DTM is present is the same way I drive when I'm on my own anyway so I have feel I have nothing to be on edge about. The DTMs I deal with are all time served drivers who know the job inside out (as are all DTMs) and as soon we start getting cautioned by signals or braking for stations etc any conversation stops to allow me to concentrate on the task at hand.

 

[pendolino]

I drive in exactly the same way with a CDM (as they're called this week) in the cab as I do without - to the best of my ability. Seeing as a CDM could download any journey I drive at any time, it makes no sense not to.

 

[TDK]

Travelling home from manchester today and not one but two company men got in the cab with the driver. One of them was very neatly dressed in Northern colours with a pinkish tie and the other in normal Northern uniform. I was pretty sure at least one of them was management and It got me thinking about the driver. There must be a hell of a lot of pressure when you have the boss in the cab with you, watching your every move and although every driver is a committed professional, it can't be a very pleasant experience for them. I noticed the braking was smoother and slower than usual as well! The bloke in the pink tie looked quite miserable as well! Anyway, lad did a good job of getting me home so credit it to him lol

If there was a DM and another employee you will find most likely that the employee with the DTM may have taken over the controls, this happens a lot for many reasons, it could be a driver who has been off for a while, a driver who needs an assessment or for any other reason, usually though the booked driver will leave the cab but must stay on the train to take over if there is any problems. If it was a DM on their own then this is usually an assessment.

I have both assessed and have been assessed and if you are doing your job correctly in the first instance is should never be a problem.

 

[notadriver]

The last time I saw a DM he offered to drive for me - instead of just pass-ing on that train to work. A very welcome extra break, if only a short one

 

[O L Leigh]

Yes, there are lots of permutations.

It could be the DM wants to see you drive, or he wants to pinch your train to conduct a route exam or final assessment with a trainee, or he might actually want a turn in the seat in order to keep his own competence up. It could also be that he wants to refresh his memory about route features as part of an investigation into an SOL incident in order to get a better understanding. All of these things have happened to me on more than one occasion.

O L Leigh

 

[strange6]

If there was a DM and another employee you will find most likely that the employee with the DTM may have taken over the controls, this happens a lot for many reasons, it could be a driver who has been off for a while, a driver who needs an assessment or for any other reason, usually though the booked driver will leave the cab but must stay on the train to take over if there is any problems. If it was a DM on their own then this is usually an assessment.

I have both assessed and have been assessed and if you are doing your job correctly in the first instance is should never be a problem.

Aye, thanks for that. I forgot to mention that the other lad in normal Northern uniform only entered the cab at Bolton whereas the smart looking bloke got in at Man Vic. The service was the man Vic - Wigan Wallgate service. I did notice that the braking throughout the ride was much more gentle and carefully applied (Not to say the braking is bad on other occasions but there was a difference)

 

[TDK]

Aye, thanks for that. I forgot to mention that the other lad in normal Northern uniform only entered the cab at Bolton whereas the smart looking bloke got in at Man Vic. The service was the man Vic - Wigan Wallgate service. I did notice that the braking throughout the ride was much more gentle and carefully applied (Not to say the braking is bad on other occasions but there was a difference)

If you noted a difference it was probably someone else driving the train other than the original driver. This happens more that you think, when I was a DM I would always drive if I was passing to keep my hand in, this was good as when I went back driving I wasn't rusty

 

[strange6]

If you noted a difference it was probably someone else driving the train other than the original driver. This happens more that you think, when I was a DM I would always drive if I was passing to keep my hand in, this was good as when I went back driving I wasn't rusty

Good idea that. Who wants to be stuck behind a desk all day? I wonder why Arriva Wales didn't get some of their management driving on this latest strike, at least on the busier services? I think Northern made their DM's drive on their last strike didn't they?

 

[umontu]

It's the same in any job, I used to do admin work in a supermarket (paid low, forced to run the store...) and the area manager used to come in (Call the wrong phone number to tell the manager he was there), just acting like normal would eliminate all problems and like a previous poster said you would find out more about what was going on that way.

Just stay cool.

 

[TDK]

Good idea that. Who wants to be stuck behind a desk all day? I wonder why Arriva Wales didn't get some of their management driving on this latest strike, at least on the busier services? I think Northern made their DM's drive on their last strike didn't they?

It is in the drivers agreements through the unions that management cannot drive a train without the booked driver on board, this is why they cannot do it. To be honest knowing the management at ATW there are not many I would be confident with them driving main line as they only drive very occasionally

 

[strange6]

It is in the drivers agreements through the unions that management cannot drive a train without the booked driver on board, this is why they cannot do it. To be honest knowing the management at ATW there are not many I would be confident with them driving main line as they only drive very occasionally

Oh, right! didn't know that. That's a bit odd considering they're all fully qualified drivers. even more reason for not going into management then! Who the hell would give up a job like driving for a job being a DM then if that's the case? I would give my back teeth to be a train driver.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Oh, right! didn't know that. That's a bit odd considering they're all fully qualified drivers. even more reason for not going into management then! Who the hell would give up a job like driving for a job being a DM then if that's the case? I would give my back teeth to be a train driver.

More pay? Office job? Less/no shift work? Lots of reasons.

 

[strange6]

More pay? Office job? No shifts? Lot's of reasons.

I know that but most train drivers absolutely love what they do and for good reason.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I know that but most train drivers absolutely love what they do and for good reason.

Yes, I'm sure they do. But there will always be people who love being DM's, and for good reason!

 

[strange6]

Yes, I'm sure they do. But there will always be people who love being DM's, and for good reason!

Yeah, a lot more money probably. I wonder what their pay is?

 

[O L Leigh]

More pay? Office job? Less/no shift work? Lots of reasons.

Are there...?

I believe the pay is little different from driver's rate without the opportunity for O/T and there seems to be much more work. True there are no shifts, but they do have to be on-call on a roster basis so could be called out at any hour of the day or night.

Not the job for me, thanks.

O L Leigh

 

[scotsman]

It is in the drivers agreements through the unions that management cannot drive a train without the booked driver on board, this is why they cannot do it. To be honest knowing the management at ATW there are not many I would be confident with them driving main line as they only drive very occasionally

Shame there's no agreement like that with the RMT about Conductors. Would have put a stop to First's ridiculously dangerous 'scab army' from all over the UK. I saw it as a clear threat to Conductors if they kept striking, this is what we will downgrade your job to

 

[strange6]

Are there...?

I believe the pay is little different from driver's rate without the opportunity for O/T and there seems to be much more work. True there are no shifts, but they do have to be on-call on a roster basis so could be called out at any hour of the day or night.

Not the job for me, thanks.

O L Leigh

Thought so. You stick to your driving you lucky sod!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Shame there's no agreement like that with the RMT about Conductors. Would have put a stop to First's ridiculously dangerous 'scab army' from all over the UK. I saw it as a clear threat to Conductors if they kept striking, this is what we will downgrade your job to

That seems a bit heavy handed!

 

[Mojo]

Shame there's no agreement like that with the RMT about Conductors. Would have put a stop to First's ridiculously dangerous 'scab army' from all over the UK. I saw it as a clear threat to Conductors if they kept striking, this is what we will downgrade your job to

If you're going to make a deliberately provocative comment like that then you'll have to provide a reasonable argument for it. Why should management not be given the opportunity to train and perform the task of frontline staff? Some staff complain that their superiors have no knowledge of the front line (despite the opportunities for career progression on the railways being much greater than in other industries and thus the likelihood that the management have previously held junior roles) yet don't like the fact they put it into practice.

I might not be a guard (as my company doesn't have any fortunately) but I hold a license which enables me to work on our stations as and when required (which in the past has been on strike days) and provide minimum staffing numbers for a lot of our stations (for which I've formally been familiarised with).

 

[strange6]

If you're going to make a deliberately provocative comment like that then you'll have to provide a reasonable argument for it. Why should management not be given the opportunity to train and perform the task of frontline staff? Some staff complain that their superiors have no knowledge of the front line (despite the opportunities for career progression on the railways being much greater than in other industries and thus the likelihood that the management have previously held junior roles) yet don't like the fact they put it into practice.

I might not be a guard (as my company doesn't have any fortunately) but I hold a license which enables me to work on our stations as and when required (which in the past has been on strike days) and provide minimum staffing numbers for a lot of our stations (for which I've formally been familiarised with).

I always though most TOC's brought in their management to provide driving and guarding services on their most profitable routes during times of industrial action. This is fair enough in my opinion so I was a little surprised to learn about the union agreement from an earlier post. It's a bit hard to understand why the TOC's would grant them such a privilege.

 

[notadriver]

I believe what was happening was that office staff from all over the country were being trained up as guards in a matter of one or two weeks and being put on trains. As the role of a conductor guard is safety critical and takes up to 3 months to learn, especially route knowledge, this practice was i feel extremely dangerous.

It is far easier to become familiar with and manage a station that it is to be a conductor on a train.

 

[scotsman]

If you're going to make a deliberately provocative comment like that then you'll have to provide a reasonable argument for it. Why should management not be given the opportunity to train and perform the task of frontline staff? Some staff complain that their superiors have no knowledge of the front line (despite the opportunities for career progression on the railways being much greater than in other industries and thus the likelihood that the management have previously held junior roles) yet don't like the fact they put it into practice.

1. Staff were from all over the UK - they were not familiar with the area
2. They had been hastily trained in some cases
3. They were not route train (AFAIK)
4. Staff were pressured into training
5. If ScotRail considers this good enough for replacements, then they are obviously happy to run the trains with much downgraded Conductors too

 

[TDK]

Oh, right! didn't know that. That's a bit odd considering they're all fully qualified drivers. even more reason for not going into management then! Who the hell would give up a job like driving for a job being a DM then if that's the case? I would give my back teeth to be a train driver.

Been there and got the T-Shirt, I earn a lot more as a driver than a DM with the overtime, no on call and at the end of the shift hang ur boots up, I wouldn't go back into management again - for your info it may only be ATW who has this agreement for managers not to drive train unaccompanied by the booked driver