DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

[JCO1406]

219 is out today on the Stratford International to Beckton test / mileage runs. So I think that makes 3 (209, 211, 224) in service and 3 more (201, 219, 231) on test runs.

Great to hear. Hopefully 231 and 201 will be ready for service soon given how much test/milage runs they’ve been doing.

I wonder when B23 deliveries will resume. Would be nice if they can increase it from 1 per week otherwise it will take a while to get the full fleet in service.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

I think the new trains look fantastic and modern. It’s interesting to think that all TFL modes apart from the Undeground have the best trains! E.g the DLR, Elizabeth Line, Overgound.

I think they will revolutionize the DLR and it already feels more sophisticated with the new, smart and functional B23s.

 

[unclebob123]

How many of the B23 are currently running at anyone time? Any idea when they will start on the branch with east india?

I was also wondering what will happen to the old trains that are being retained? Will they get a new paint job/wrap to match the new livery?

 

[Snow1964]

I wonder when B23 deliveries will resume. Would be nice if they can increase it from 1 per week otherwise it will take a while to get the full fleet in service.

The TfL Board Programmes and Investment Committee papers for next weeks meeting don't say when deliveries will resume, but they do give a timescale (with last train within 27 months)

8.1.4 Subject to monitoring their performance in the coming months, we will continue the rollout of the fleet and are set up to accelerate their introduction such that all 54 of the new trains will be available for passenger service by the end of 2028. This will allow us to begin reinstating the previous service reductions from early next year

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s27200/pic-20261007-item05a-part1-Investment%20Programme%20Report%20Quarter%201%20202627.pdf

 

[unclebob123]

The TfL Board Programmes and Investment Committee papers for next weeks meeting don't say when deliveries will resume, but they do give a timescale (with last train within 27 months)

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s27200/pic-20261007-item05a-part1-Investment%20Programme%20Report%20Quarter%201%20202627.pdf

27 months?! Why so long?

 

[DGP]

27 months?! Why so long?

Most of them are still in Spain. As Snow1964 said in message 1186 they will have to be transported here via road using specialist transport with a delivery rate of about 3 per month. They will then presumably have to be tested and run faultless for x number of kms before they can enter service.

 

[Thirteen]

TBH they don't need all 54 trains straight away, I imagine the 43 which were intended to replace the B90s/B92s/B2Ks will delivered by late 2027 and then we'll get the remaining 11 in 2028.

I assume once all 54 are in service, TfL will start withdrawing the B07s for their planned midlife refurb.

 

[boodle]

217 was running “Not in Service” on the Beckton branch this morning

 

[Snow1964]

TBH they don't need all 54 trains straight away, I imagine the 43 which were intended to replace the B90s/B92s/B2Ks will delivered by late 2027 and then we'll get the remaining 11 in 2028.

I assume once all 54 are in service, TfL will start withdrawing the B07s for their planned midlife refurb.

As the 11 extra trains (244-254) are growth build, then there would be more than enough trains to start the refurb of B07 anytime from mid 2027 onwards

There are only 55 B07 (or 18-19 equivalent triple sets), so having a few sets on a rolling basis under mid life work is not really going to cause shortages, especially as the phased withdrawal of older trains could easily take about 18 months as they fall due for major work.

 

[A60stock]

Do we know what the scope of the works is for the B07s? I understand that the a re-livery to the new livery and interior works to make these almost identifical to the b23s is the plan? I don't know if the DMIs will be replaced though.

Interesting that these are not being replaced and that the DLR will have to still put up with individual 2 car sets being coupled. I would have thought they would have tried to sell them and just bought more b23s so that they could just have one type of fleet

Also, will a refurbished set be able to run with an unrefurbished one?

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

I would have thought they would have tried to sell them

Who would buy them? EVAG in Essen bought the P86 and P89 units because they were still quite young and the price was attractive even including the cost of conversion to overhead power and manual driving. The B07 units are nearly twenty years old now, and I imagine that they would have to work for many more years for their new owners to recoup the cost of conversion.

 

[Smod]

238 is in service today on Stratford International to Woolwich (NOT test running).

 

[boodle]

238 is in service today on Stratford International to Woolwich (NOT test running).

If 209, 211, and 224 are all still in service (as they have been for approx a couple weeks) then I make that 4/6 of the Stratford/Woolwich branch units are B23s.

 

[unclebob123]

How many are in service now? 4?

Edit - answered just as I posted this

Any idea when we might start seeing these on the bank - beckton / woolwich routes?

 

[boodle]

Any idea when we might start seeing these on the bank - beckton / woolwich routes?

Apparently Bank-Lewisham is next. Interesting that this is already (except service reductions during recent holiday periods) a 3 car service.

Bank - Lewisham route is next.

 

[bramling]

Do we know what the scope of the works is for the B07s? I understand that the a re-livery to the new livery and interior works to make these almost identifical to the b23s is the plan? I don't know if the DMIs will be replaced though.

Interesting that these are not being replaced and that the DLR will have to still put up with individual 2 car sets being coupled. I would have thought they would have tried to sell them and just bought more b23s so that they could just have one type of fleet

There just isn’t the funding to be replacing a whole fleet of trains just to avoid the slight nuisance of two fleets. TFL has had issues replacing 50+ year old fleets on the Underground.

The situation with the P stock was somewhat different. It was a small fleet, the P86 stock wasn’t built for tunnel running, and both fleets would have needed fitting with Alcatel signalling. Also, being nearly new, there was someone interested in buying them.

 

[TheManWho]

Do we know what the scope of the works is for the B07s? I understand that the a re-livery to the new livery and interior works to make these almost identifical to the b23s is the plan? I don't know if the DMIs will be replaced though.

Interesting that these are not being replaced and that the DLR will have to still put up with individual 2 car sets being coupled. I would have thought they would have tried to sell them and just bought more b23s so that they could just have one type of fleet

Also, will a refurbished set be able to run with an unrefurbished one?

The 07s will be staying, hopefully with more B23s being introduced more 07s will be able to run in 3-car formations rather than the current 2-car formation.

Not sure on the extent of the B23 refurbishment, probably an internal and external refit and general overhaul- the destination displays will probably stay the same.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 13:47 ==

Unit 253 is at Beckton Depot, was delivered last week

 

[Techniquest]

I got to enjoy some B23s yesterday for the first time, taking on 211 from Woolwich Arsenal to Stratford International and around 25 minutes later (roughly, wasn’t keeping an eye on the time too carefully) I took 224 from Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal. I got a front seat on the way back, thus getting to also sample the USB-A charging point.

I could have done much shorter journeys, however I felt it wise to do the full length journeys to get a real feel for these trains. En-route to Stratford International I was mostly in the longtitunial (apologies, not a word I know too well so I’ll have spelt that wrong) seat, grabbing a front seat for the final bit.

The seats were pretty firm, in the same fashion as the 345s were to begin with, however I didn’t really notice it after about 10 minutes, also the same as with the 345s. Is it just my imagination though, or are the seats at the very front slightly more padded? They’re also rather high-backed, so more supportive than the old ones are.

I was a touch surprised it’s USB-A not USB-C charging, although I only had the former cable anyway so it worked out well for me. It did charge quite well for what my phone described as a ‘slow charge’, with around 17% added despite using my phone a fair bit along the way. So I can’t really complain about that at all.

I liked the PIS screens on the B23s as well, a useful feature with the information on which side the doors open. It would be useful to have that as an audible feature though, which it wasn’t on my journeys. Something which could be improved for sure.

Aside from that, I enjoyed my journeys and I was going to get 238 done as well, but I was a bit short on time for getting to my booked train home. 217 was on test yesterday too, so I’ve got 4 of them ticked off for sight and 2 for haulage.

Do I think they’re an improvement on the older trains? From the limited look at them I had, for I didn’t walk through the whole train, I would say yes. To me they felt more spacious and I do like the new colour scheme. The red and black of the older trains is what I associate with the DLR but I like the new white and green-blue (no idea what it actually is called!) colour scheme. Feels more modern and light

Final thought, as I’m updating my wants list for light rail, is it 201-254 for the new trains or will they go higher in the number range? Thanks in advance!

 

[TheManWho]

I got to enjoy some B23s yesterday for the first time, taking on 211 from Woolwich Arsenal to Stratford International and around 25 minutes later (roughly, wasn’t keeping an eye on the time too carefully) I took 224 from Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal. I got a front seat on the way back, thus getting to also sample the USB-A charging point.

I could have done much shorter journeys, however I felt it wise to do the full length journeys to get a real feel for these trains. En-route to Stratford International I was mostly in the longtitunial (apologies, not a word I know too well so I’ll have spelt that wrong) seat, grabbing a front seat for the final bit.

The seats were pretty firm, in the same fashion as the 345s were to begin with, however I didn’t really notice it after about 10 minutes, also the same as with the 345s. Is it just my imagination though, or are the seats at the very front slightly more padded? They’re also rather high-backed, so more supportive than the old ones are.

I was a touch surprised it’s USB-A not USB-C charging, although I only had the former cable anyway so it worked out well for me. It did charge quite well for what my phone described as a ‘slow charge’, with around 17% added despite using my phone a fair bit along the way. So I can’t really complain about that at all.

I liked the PIS screens on the B23s as well, a useful feature with the information on which side the doors open. It would be useful to have that as an audible feature though, which it wasn’t on my journeys. Something which could be improved for sure.

Aside from that, I enjoyed my journeys and I was going to get 238 done as well, but I was a bit short on time for getting to my booked train home. 217 was on test yesterday too, so I’ve got 4 of them ticked off for sight and 2 for haulage.

Do I think they’re an improvement on the older trains? From the limited look at them I had, for I didn’t walk through the whole train, I would say yes. To me they felt more spacious and I do like the new colour scheme. The red and black of the older trains is what I associate with the DLR but I like the new white and green-blue (no idea what it actually is called!) colour scheme. Feels more modern and light

Final thought, as I’m updating my wants list for light rail, is it 201-254 for the new trains or will they go higher in the number range? Thanks in advance!

The PIS system will be updated at some point with new audible announcements, which I believe will include the side the doors will be opening. Not sure what train you was on yesterday, but the PIS will also show the TfL Status boards as well.

The official name of the colour is "DLR Teal"

B23s will be numbered 201 upwards, the current batch being delivered will go up to 254.

 

[Techniquest]

Good to hear the PIS will be getting an update, I don’t recall seeing what the TfL status was but I didn’t look too carefully for that sort of thing.

Thanks for confirming the current fleet being up to 254, that’s what my list has and matches what a fellow enthusiast has so that’s good

 

[TheManWho]

If 209, 211, and 224 are all still in service (as they have been for approx a couple weeks) then I make that 4/6 of the Stratford/Woolwich branch units are B23s.

Yesterday 3 x B23 in service on the Stratford to Woolwich route- 211, 224 and 238