Disciplinary Measures?

[PaulMac]

How are driver infractions dealt with in the UK? Is there a disciplinary standard across the network, or does each operator have its own procedures? Do drivers accumulate points?

By ‘infractions’ I’m referring to on-track incidents such as SPADs, overspeeds, overshoots and so forth, as well as HR issues like mis-reading a roster, being out of position, etc.

 

[transportphoto]

To assist with context of this question for those answering - based on their posting history, the OP is an internationally based train driver

 

[PaulMac]

To assist with context of this question for those answering - based on their posting history, the OP is an internationally based train driver

Indeed I am! I work for a company that takes violent exception to being mentioned, or even alluded to, on social media by past, current or future employees. But I’m definitely curious about procedures and day-to-day driving life elsewhere.

 

[paulmch]

Generally, incidents aren't treated as disciplinary issues unless there is evidence of serious complacency or deliberate action.

An investigation will take place and following that a driver will usually be put on a plan where they'll receive additional training and a period of much more frequent assessment for a year or two.

Depending on the incident, there might be some extra conditions, such as the driver not being allowed to have anybody travel in the cab with them while the plan is in place.

Good practice would be to make it clear that none of that is a punishment, rather an opportunity to correct any deficiencies, although the management style of individual driver managers might not make that feel like it's the case!

 

[driver9000]

When I passed for driving, the company I worked for categorised us A to D (A being high risk) and had a points system.

A new Driver was category C from a monitoring point of view. From memory a SPAD gave you 21 points and category A rating, and they were removed gradually over the course of a few years along with dropping down the grading.

This was eventually deemed punitive and embarrassing, so was replaced with the now almost standard CDP (Competence Development Plan) system. Should a Driver be unfortunate enough to have a safety of the line incident, they would be taken off driving and an investigation would be done into how it happened.

Under CDP the Driver should have a say in writing their own plan which is built to support and develop a Drivers knowledge and skills to ensure the mistake isn't made again. How long they will be on the plan for depends on the severity of the mistake, but it will usually include additional monitoring either through ride outs or OTDR downloads. Using a mobile phone while driving or turning up over the alcohol limit will more than likely see you removed from driving duties and probably invited to leave the building.

Misreading a roster or not being somewhere at the time you're meant to be there, assuming it's not a regular occurrence would usually be dealt with by having a quiet friendly word in your ear and no more said about it.

 

[Trackman]

It would depend on the contract/ disciplinary procedures as laid out when you join.
I'm unsure if it's uniform across TOCs etc..

 

[driverd]

It would depend on the contract/ disciplinary procedures as laid out when you join.
I'm unsure if it's uniform across TOCs etc..

There's certainly no uniform procedure. The ORR provide best practice guidance and oversight of the companies safety management system. Essentially, there is a framework for the management system that is set at a regulatory level but the exact implementation of this varies by operator.

Its also important to differentiate between an operational incident and personal performance issues. A station overrun, fail to call or SPAD would fall into the first category, abuse of the sickness policy; repeated failure to present on time or something like unacceptable workplace behaviour would fall into the second.

Operational incidents will, 99% of the time, be dealt with by means of a competency development plan. What exactly this entails and how long a driver is placed on it will be decided by the operational standards department of that employer and will be reflective of the incident that has taken place and the requirements of the unique safety management system of that operator. In the vast majority of cases, an operational incident will not result in disciplinary action and where it does there must be clear evidence of outside factors that warrant it (eg: Driver was distracted because they were using a mobile phone, yet they had signed a company policy specifically acknowledging they would not do this).

Disciplinary action follows a similar structure to that of any employer in any industry. Its typically taking after joint investigation by local managers and a HR officer, in response to poor performance outside of the core train driving task. The only exceptions to this would be either a blatant violation of policy or where a driver has received retraining to the extent that they can't successfully argue their operational incident was as a result of a training deficiency (although in this case, its more likely that the driver will be taken down a capability pathway, where by they will be reallocated to another job within the business that is more suited to them).

The key difference here is that disciplinary action could see you without a job, a competency development plan is aimed squarely at improving the skill set of the driver and preventing further issues.

 

[Horizon22]

All this being said that yes, drivers are generally put on performance plans, but it is not unheard of for drivers to be redeployed from the grade after too many incidents.

 

[PaulMac]

Thanks to everyone who replied. The theory behind these measures sounds very fair, though surely local managers have discretion over how aggressively they apply performance reviews.

Regardless, I imagine it’s seen as quite humiliating, particularly for a senior driver, to be subjected to performance management. In our company, we’re sometimes given retraining, and everybody - from station clerks to shunters - knows as soon as they see you accompanied by a drive auditor in the cab.

Some of our more fossilised drivers who lose competence also seem to enjoy divine protection, whereby they get to live out their last half-decade draped on a couch in the tea room - but I suppose that’s universal.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Thanks to everyone who replied. The theory behind these measures sounds very fair, though surely local managers have discretion over how aggressively they apply performance reviews.

To a certain extent - prevailing culture is a factor everywhere

Regardless, I imagine it’s seen as quite humiliating, particularly for a senior driver, to be subjected to performance management. In our company, we’re sometimes given retraining, and everybody - from station clerks to shunters - knows as soon as they see you accompanied by a drive auditor in the cab.

Yes, it can be. There’s been a big move in the last few years to change wordings around but the stigma still remains. In my experience the only thing which will go some way to ending the stigma is “old hands” coming forward and speaking openly about their experiences if they have an incident of some kind. Which, naturally enough, they can be reluctant to do if there’s still a stigma attached to it, so it’s a bit of a vicious cycle

Some of our more fossilised drivers who lose competence also seem to enjoy divine protection, whereby they get to live out their last half-decade draped on a couch in the tea room - but I suppose that’s universal.

It certainly is!

 

[driver9000]

In our company, we’re sometimes given retraining, and everybody - from station clerks to shunters - knows as soon as they see you accompanied by a drive auditor in the cab.

Being accompanied occasionally by a manager or assessor is part of our routine assessment cycle so it doesn't necessarily mean the Driver is being retrained, they could equally be being passed out on route or traction. While word will get about among train crew grades that a Driver has had a safety of the line incident and it may even be reported as a teaching point in a signing on point notice case station staff and shunters certainly wouldn't know that a Driver is on a post incident plan.

 

[bluesfromagun]

At my (large) TOC, safety incidents almost always see the driver removed from driving (OTR) until the incident has been investigated. Depending on how big an incident it is, they can be OTR for anything from a day or two, up to many weeks. For example if I had a fail to call, I'd be back very quickly and it wouldn't be considered a big deal unless I already had multiple recent incidents or I was a PQA driver. For a SPAD where I'd completely failed to respond to cautionary signals, it could be a long time. Regardless of the type of incident, on your return you'll have some sort of remedial plan to undertake and generally, additional assessments / OTMR downloads.
Those are safety of the line incidents, so there's a whole formal procedure. For the other things, like being late to a train, repeated sickness and whatnot, that's a separate thing altogether. That's the same as anyone else who makes a mistake at work, nothing to do with your ability to drive a train and not something that follows you from TOC to TOC, should you leave and go elsewhere.
Those drivers who have multiple safety incidents over a relatively short space of time, normally at my TOC they'll get pulled in and told that they have a choice - they can take a different job, generally a guard, and go onto a sliding scale in terms of salary, or the can continue as a driver and know that one more incident and they're sacked.
They almost always take the sliding scale and redeployment.

 

[PaulMac]

At my (large) TOC, safety incidents almost always see the driver removed from driving (OTR) until the incident has been investigated. Depending on how big an incident it is, they can be OTR for anything from a day or two, up to many weeks. For example if I had a fail to call, I'd be back very quickly and it wouldn't be considered a big deal unless I already had multiple recent incidents or I was a PQA driver. For a SPAD where I'd completely failed to respond to cautionary signals, it could be a long time. Regardless of the type of incident, on your return you'll have some sort of remedial plan to undertake and generally, additional assessments / OTMR downloads.
Those are safety of the line incidents, so there's a whole formal procedure. For the other things, like being late to a train, repeated sickness and whatnot, that's a separate thing altogether. That's the same as anyone else who makes a mistake at work, nothing to do with your ability to drive a train and not something that follows you from TOC to TOC, should you leave and go elsewhere.
Those drivers who have multiple safety incidents over a relatively short space of time, normally at my TOC they'll get pulled in and told that they have a choice - they can take a different job, generally a guard, and go onto a sliding scale in terms of salary, or the can continue as a driver and know that one more incident and they're sacked.
They almost always take the sliding scale and redeployment.

Thanks. I take it ‘fail to call’ is basically zooming through a station you were supposed to stop at?

How do you guys keep track of your stopping patterns? Is there some sort of computer tracking system, or do you rely on slips of paper?

 

[RiverDon]

Thanks. I take it ‘fail to call’ is basically zooming through a station you were supposed to stop at?

Yes

How do you guys keep track of your stopping patterns? Is there some sort of computer tracking system, or do you rely on slips of paper?

At my company we get the booked stops listed on paper for each shift and we also have a touchscreen in the cab called DAS (Driver Advisory System) which tells you the booked stops and warns you when you're about a mile out. Quite a lot of the trains have it broken in one or both cabs though and it seems to be difficult for the maintenance staff to fix. The company also likes us to confirm the stops with the conductor before the start of the journey and use a highlighter for unusual stops.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Thanks. I take it ‘fail to call’ is basically zooming through a station you were supposed to stop at?

How do you guys keep track of your stopping patterns? Is there some sort of computer tracking system, or do you rely on slips of paper?

Lovely piece of paper called a schedule card for most. It will list what you're doing for the day interms of actions(coupling, uncoupling, pnb and etc) of which also our the stations you're to call at for each service.

I personally treat it as it should be, a precious item that must be respected and guarded at all times during the day, that document is literally in most cases what makes your day go smoothly or terribly.

What works for me personally is to call every station en route. By that I mean, let's say we're working a Reading out of Waterloo and currently at Clapham Junction. On immediately departing Clapham, I'd in my risk triggered commentary also include the next station possible to stop at after Clapham("Next station is Wandsworth Town") then I'd check the schedule to confirm that I'm indeed stopping there or not("Not stopping at Wandsworth Town").

As we reach the usual braking point for each station I usually reconfirm the above. On passing said station I then repeat the same in my RTC but this time for the next station("Next Station is Putney"). Now why i prefer to call every station regardless of my stopping pattern is that a Reading on Monday to Fridays can differ greatly to that of a Sunday Reading service. You'll stop at Vauxhall and Putney on Sundays often which usually on a Monday and Friday skipped, Longcross also adds to the fun on the down at times stopping but on the up skipping it.

Confirmation bias is all too often a cause for fail to calls as you may have in your head that you're a particular running number or service and so know the running pattern off by head and fail to really utilise that schedule properly of which now stations you'd usually skip are to be called at for X reason.

Whilst it is somewhat indeed an inconvience and arguably could be considered an incident I'd say its better to stop accidentally at an additional stop than to ommit one completely. But you shouldn't even be in that situation imo of you're checking your schedule card which is either highlighted or appropriately marked to aid you.

It's saved me numerous times and I've not had a fail to call, touch wood, neither an unwarranted additional call either

 

[PaulMac]

Lovely piece of paper called a schedule card for most. It will list what you're doing for the day interms of actions(coupling, uncoupling, pnb and etc) of which also our the stations you're to call at for each service.

I personally treat it as it should be, a precious item that must be respected and guarded at all times during the day, that document is literally in most cases what makes your day go smoothly or terribly.

What works for me personally is to call every station en route. By that I mean, let's say we're working a Reading out of Waterloo and currently at Clapham Junction. On immediately departing Clapham, I'd in my risk triggered commentary also include the next station possible to stop at after Clapham("Next station is Wandsworth Town") then I'd check the schedule to confirm that I'm indeed stopping there or not("Not stopping at Wandsworth Town").

As we reach the usual braking point for each station I usually reconfirm the above. On passing said station I then repeat the same in my RTC but this time for the next station("Next Station is Putney"). Now why i prefer to call every station regardless of my stopping pattern is that a Reading on Monday to Fridays can differ greatly to that of a Sunday Reading service. You'll stop at Vauxhall and Putney on Sundays often which usually on a Monday and Friday skipped, Longcross also adds to the fun on the down at times stopping but on the up skipping it.

Confirmation bias is all too often a cause for fail to calls as you may have in your head that you're a particular running number or service and so know the running pattern off by head and fail to really utilise that schedule properly of which now stations you'd usually skip are to be called at for X reason.

Whilst it is somewhat indeed an inconvience and arguably could be considered an incident I'd say its better to stop accidentally at an additional stop than to ommit one completely. But you shouldn't even be in that situation imo of you're checking your schedule card which is either highlighted or appropriately marked to aid you.

It's saved me numerous times and I've not had a fail to call, touch wood, neither an unwarranted additional call either

Lovely to hear about other drivers and their ‘systems’. I’m personally a big fan of point-and-calling (risk-triggered commentary with lots of grand gestures), but in these parts it’s considered quite eccentric.

I currently work an extremely simple stretch of the network - only four stations, a couple of curves, three speed changes and half a dozen signals - but on the busy sections, keeping on top of ever-changing stopping patterns made me want to tear my hair out. Point-and-calling was the only way I could stay sane.

We don’t have location indicators, either. Our braking points are often things as banal as odd-shaped trees, certain trackside buildings, or even (to quote my former instructor) “Where that big puddle used to be”. That matters when you’re on older locomotives with Westinghouse air brakes: you basically get one chance to stop the train.

As such, I’m curious about the Driver Advisory System mentioned by @RiverDon above. Does that wholly negate the need to memorise braking points? Is it used by all railway companies?

 

[SJN]

Lovely to hear about other drivers and their ‘systems’. I’m personally a big fan of point-and-calling (risk-triggered commentary with lots of grand gestures), but in these parts it’s considered quite eccentric.

I currently work an extremely simple stretch of the network - only four stations, a couple of curves, three speed changes and half a dozen signals - but on the busy sections, keeping on top of ever-changing stopping patterns made me want to tear my hair out. Point-and-calling was the only way I could stay sane.

We don’t have location indicators, either. Our braking points are often things as banal as odd-shaped trees, certain trackside buildings, or even (to quote my former instructor) “Where that big puddle used to be”. That matters when you’re on older locomotives with Westinghouse air brakes: you basically get one chance to stop the train.

As such, I’m curious about the Driver Advisory System mentioned by @RiverDon above. Does that wholly negate the need to memorise braking points? Is it used by all railway companies?

Hi. No DAS definitely doesn’t replace route knowledge in any way. It will show a message on screen that you’re approaching a station but not a braking point. Can be useful in heavy fog but in my experience, it breaks a lot and can’t be relied upon.

 

[driver9000]

As such, I’m curious about the Driver Advisory System mentioned by @RiverDon above. Does that wholly negate the need to memorise braking points? Is it used by all railway companies?

It's not used by every company and my company doesn't currently use DAS although the Hitachi 80x sets have it built in as standard. It is just an advisory system and doesn't relieve the Driver of any responsibility to working the train. You can't say that you missed X station because DAS didn't tell you about it. What it will do is advise on the most economical way to drive so it can advise where to coast, power and will alert to upcoming booked station stops and the time the train is scheduled to be there and whether the train is running on time but it has it's limitations and is known to give up sending advice when the train is running more than a set timeframe late or it no longer knows where it is. Earlier versions couldn't differentiate between Fast and Slow lines in multi track areas and it was known to give spurious advice like coasting on steep rising gradients.

 

[RiverDon]

Lovely to hear about other drivers and their ‘systems’. I’m personally a big fan of point-and-calling (risk-triggered commentary with lots of grand gestures), but in these parts it’s considered quite eccentric.

I currently work an extremely simple stretch of the network - only four stations, a couple of curves, three speed changes and half a dozen signals - but on the busy sections, keeping on top of ever-changing stopping patterns made me want to tear my hair out. Point-and-calling was the only way I could stay sane.

We don’t have location indicators, either. Our braking points are often things as banal as odd-shaped trees, certain trackside buildings, or even (to quote my former instructor) “Where that big puddle used to be”. That matters when you’re on older locomotives with Westinghouse air brakes: you basically get one chance to stop the train.

As such, I’m curious about the Driver Advisory System mentioned by @RiverDon above. Does that wholly negate the need to memorise braking points? Is it used by all railway companies?

You can't really rely on DAS in the trains I drive because it isn't integrated into the signalling system and it relies on downloading the timetable through a mobile data connection, so it does sometimes get mixed up or more often it just doesn't download and says "no services available". The newer trains (that I don't drive) have it tied into the train management system software so I imagine it might be a bit more reliable but it still doesn't replace route knowledge for a driver. The station ahead warnings it gives are sometimes well before the actual braking point or sometimes well after you would have actually started braking.

The screen shows you the linespeed, your current mileage, the name of your next station stop, the time you are scheduled to arrive and an ETA based on your current speed but it doesn't tell you braking points, or signals, or upcoming linespeed changes, or the name of the signalbox, or anything else useful like that. It also only works for passenger services so if you are running empty it is no help. The really handy bit is it shows you the length of the train on the screen and announces it just as you arrive in the platform so you should theoretically always stop at the correct point on the platform. DAS was introduced mainly for fuel efficiency so it tells you to coast or maintain a particular speed to save fuel but I have been told that most drivers in my company ignore that bit of it now because the advice it gives doesn't really work with the timetable being as tight as it is.

We have obscure braking points here too, like one of my stations I have been taught to brake at a big bush near the track or another where (in the dark) you see the lights of a particular house. I did ask my instructor what happens if they ever fancy an early night but I was told not to worry because you just get to know exactly where you are after a few years.

Risk triggered commentary is mandatory for new drivers at my company and I know some people find it awkward but it has really helped me and I use it every journey.

 

[I2026]

Lovely piece of paper called a schedule card for most. It will list what you're doing for the day interms of actions(coupling, uncoupling, pnb and etc) of which also our the stations you're to call at for each service.

I personally treat it as it should be, a precious item that must be respected and guarded at all times during the day, that document is literally in most cases what makes your day go smoothly or terribly.

What works for me personally is to call every station en route. By that I mean, let's say we're working a Reading out of Waterloo and currently at Clapham Junction. On immediately departing Clapham, I'd in my risk triggered commentary also include the next station possible to stop at after Clapham("Next station is Wandsworth Town") then I'd check the schedule to confirm that I'm indeed stopping there or not("Not stopping at Wandsworth Town").

As we reach the usual braking point for each station I usually reconfirm the above. On passing said station I then repeat the same in my RTC but this time for the next station("Next Station is Putney"). Now why i prefer to call every station regardless of my stopping pattern is that a Reading on Monday to Fridays can differ greatly to that of a Sunday Reading service. You'll stop at Vauxhall and Putney on Sundays often which usually on a Monday and Friday skipped, Longcross also adds to the fun on the down at times stopping but on the up skipping it.

Confirmation bias is all too often a cause for fail to calls as you may have in your head that you're a particular running number or service and so know the running pattern off by head and fail to really utilise that schedule properly of which now stations you'd usually skip are to be called at for X reason.

Whilst it is somewhat indeed an inconvience and arguably could be considered an incident I'd say its better to stop accidentally at an additional stop than to ommit one completely. But you shouldn't even be in that situation imo of you're checking your schedule card which is either highlighted or appropriately marked to aid you.

It's saved me numerous times and I've not had a fail to call, touch wood, neither an unwarranted additional call either

That line is the one I am likely going to start at whenever I commence with SWR Longcross - ghost station!

 

[HeelBurton]

Lovely piece of paper called a schedule card for most. It will list what you're doing for the day interms of actions(coupling, uncoupling, pnb and etc) of which also our the stations you're to call at for each service.

I personally treat it as it should be, a precious item that must be respected and guarded at all times during the day, that document is literally in most cases what makes your day go smoothly or terribly.

What works for me personally is to call every station en route. By that I mean, let's say we're working a Reading out of Waterloo and currently at Clapham Junction. On immediately departing Clapham, I'd in my risk triggered commentary also include the next station possible to stop at after Clapham("Next station is Wandsworth Town") then I'd check the schedule to confirm that I'm indeed stopping there or not("Not stopping at Wandsworth Town").

As we reach the usual braking point for each station I usually reconfirm the above. On passing said station I then repeat the same in my RTC but this time for the next station("Next Station is Putney"). Now why i prefer to call every station regardless of my stopping pattern is that a Reading on Monday to Fridays can differ greatly to that of a Sunday Reading service. You'll stop at Vauxhall and Putney on Sundays often which usually on a Monday and Friday skipped, Longcross also adds to the fun on the down at times stopping but on the up skipping it.

Confirmation bias is all too often a cause for fail to calls as you may have in your head that you're a particular running number or service and so know the running pattern off by head and fail to really utilise that schedule properly of which now stations you'd usually skip are to be called at for X reason.

Whilst it is somewhat indeed an inconvience and arguably could be considered an incident I'd say its better to stop accidentally at an additional stop than to ommit one completely. But you shouldn't even be in that situation imo of you're checking your schedule card which is either highlighted or appropriately marked to aid you.

It's saved me numerous times and I've not had a fail to call, touch wood, neither an unwarranted additional call either

Having worked where you work, I know exactly what you are referring to!!!

Where I am now, you really have to be on the ball because the stopping patterns are outrageous. It’s a two track railway so eventually any train can call at any station providing it hits the number of required calls a day. So you can’t even for a second assume

“All Oxford services call at Wembley stadium” because they do not.

Highlighters and risk triggered commentary at the ready.

We’ve also got the risk of having to show down for tripcock testers within station platforms but not actually stop at the station itself. You can see how easy drivers can slip into stopping automatically once you’ve hit the <10mph a coach length from the stop car mark you are not supposed to stop at

 

[jaybon92]

Having worked where you work, I know exactly what you are referring to!!!

Where I am now, you really have to be on the ball because the stopping patterns are outrageous. It’s a two track railway so eventually any train can call at any station providing it hits the number of required calls a day. So you can’t even for a second assume

“All Oxford services call at Wembley stadium” because they do not.

Highlighters and risk triggered commentary at the ready.

We’ve also got the risk of having to show down for tripcock testers within station platforms but not actually stop at the station itself. You can see how easy drivers can slip into stopping automatically once you’ve hit the <10mph a coach length from the stop car mark you are not supposed to stop at

Think thats proberbly better for it to be different all the time other than the same 8 out of 10 times. That's asking for trouble

 

[NSEWonderer]

Having worked where you work, I know exactly what you are referring to!!!

Where I am now, you really have to be on the ball because the stopping patterns are outrageous. It’s a two track railway so eventually any train can call at any station providing it hits the number of required calls a day. So you can’t even for a second assume

“All Oxford services call at Wembley stadium” because they do not.

Highlighters and risk triggered commentary at the ready.

We’ve also got the risk of having to show down for tripcock testers within station platforms but not actually stop at the station itself. You can see how easy drivers can slip into stopping automatically once you’ve hit the <10mph a coach length from the stop car mark you are not supposed to stop at

Indeed its so easy to get confirmation Bias and not be able (if PPS isn't utilised to the maximum) to get out of that trap and conduct the appropriate next action.

There is a saying that Assume makes an ASS out of U and Me. Any time I do an action that distracts me from my schedule, once that risk is gone / completed, before another action I look at the schedule card and the conduct the next appropriate action / deal with next risk.

Happy Christmas all too!

 

[bluesfromagun]

DAS is a 15 year old system that isn't really much use and often doesn't work. As stated above, the only useful thing about it is the train length function.

Personally, I set it up but always drive with it muted and the advice suppressed, and always have.

II don't use post it notes, train length reminders, highlighters for stops, RTC in normal driving, all these added steps that companies keep trying to encourage drivers to use.

 

[PaulMac]

Thanks for the information, everybody. Sounds like DAS isn’t really living up to its potential.

I rely on point-and-calling and a flashing red bicycle light on the console that I trigger whenever there’s something critical like detonator warnings or the staff is absent from cab.

I guess it’s whatever works for you, right? We all have our own driving styles and limitations.

 

[Tester]

From a safety-critical (but not driving) background, this is all very interesting to learn.

Having spent a lot of time in Japan, I'm a big fan of point and call, and hadn't realised that it has made its way into GB driver training. Have many experienced drivers taken it up on their own initiative?

 

[PaulMac]

From a safety-critical (but not driving) background, this is all very interesting to learn.

Having spent a lot of time in Japan, I'm a big fan of point and call, and hadn't realised that it has made its way into GB driver training. Have many experienced drivers taken it up on their own initiative?

I saw it on an old JR training video.

Looks ridiculous but it works for me.

 

[RiverDon]

Having spent a lot of time in Japan, I'm a big fan of point and call, and hadn't realised that it has made its way into GB driver training. Have many experienced drivers taken it up on their own initiative?

In my company risk triggered commentary is only meant to be used for risks for example restrictive signalling, speed restrictions, opening doors (DOO) etc.. so you wouldn't use it at every signal, there's no need to say "green" every time. They reckon it dilutes the point if you overuse it by saying everything you see. The idea is to keep a risk fresh in your short term memory and avoid distractions so you might say "single yellow red ahead" every 10 to 20 seconds on approach to a red for example. As mentioned I find it useful but I think most of the old boys don't bother. New drivers have to use it though, you'd fail the assessments if you didn't.

We don't have to physically point at signals (or whatever) Japanese style. Our trainer showed us a youtube video of it and it became mocked a bit on my driving course. Though I suppose some people might do it if it helps them but it definitely isn't taught or required at my company.

(edited to remove something I probably shouldn't of said!)