Difference between a Train Driver Instructor and a Driver Mentor

[anglian96]

Sorry mate to revisit this thread, does this mean 3 years from starting training? Ie a driver who started training on 9th July 2022 could be used a mentor from tomorrow. Or is it three years from passing out?

Would be 3 years from pass out

 

[JDAWC]

Generally if you’re newly qualified “PQA” you won’t be able to be a mentor, or have anyone in the cab with you. I wouldn’t expect that period to be as long as three years at most TOCs.

TOCs will often want a little more experience for those who are mentors - three plus years sounds about right as a starting point.

Thank you. We’ve just had a guy at my place start as a DI. He started training 5ish years ago with another TOC and passed out around 3 years ago and moved to us 2 years back. Hence why I revisited this thread as at my TOC, generally 3 years from pass out with a clean license is the minimum. I figured most TOCs have a similar criteria in place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

Would be 3 years from pass out

I thought that’s what it would be, just wanted to double check

 

[HeelBurton]

For instructor Some companies have 3 year criteria I believe some have 5. I think it varies from TOC to TOC.

Mentor once out of PQ and PQA, when you can have someone accompany you in the cab. Some places might give a pay increase for being a mentor. Differs toc to toc i guess.

I’ve seen some TOCS advertise for instuctors and mentors externally and I am not sure how that works as presumably once you transfer you’d need to to learn routes and traction and have a bedding in period before you are comfortable to take someone. I would suspect it’s easier for someone to be promoted within?

 

[Efini92]

Sorry mate to revisit this thread, does this mean 3 years from starting training? Ie a driver who started training on 9th July 2022 could be used a mentor from tomorrow. Or is it three years from passing out?

3 years from passing out.

 

[LokiB]

Generally if you’re newly qualified “PQA” you won’t be able to be a mentor, or have anyone in the cab with you. I wouldn’t expect that period to be as long as three years at most TOCs.

TOCs will often want a little more experience for those who are mentors - three plus years sounds about right as a starting point.

At Northern once you have your orange cab pass removed (120 driving hours) you are allowed people in the cab i.e route learners etc.

 

[dk1]

At Northern once you have your orange cab pass removed (120 driving hours) you are allowed people in the cab i.e route learners etc.

How do you remember such things? I have been an instructor since 2011 and have no idea of cab pass colours

 

[LokiB]

How do you remember such things? I have been an instructor since 2011 and have no idea of cab pass colours

It's not that long since I was orange cab pass so still fresh(ish) in the memory......... All the others are a different question though

 

[whoosh]

How do you remember such things? I have been an instructor since 2011 and have no idea of cab pass colours

Me too. Apart from green obviously!

 

[dk1]

It's not that long since I was orange cab pass so still fresh(ish) in the memory......... All the others are a different question though

I don’t think I’ve ever been asked which colours refer to what even on rules & regs. I know most people and if I like them they are welcome in my driving cab.

 

[504]

Thanks for your responses on this thread, really helpful. Would you happen to know at Northern for a depot like Piccadilly or Victoria where there are multiple links - 5 at Vic and 3 at Picc - would instructors sign all routes.

As an example, if there was a link 1 driver at Piccadilly who became an instructor, would they have to learn Sheffield, Liverpool and Buxton as these are the routes their link doesn’t sign? Vice versa would a link 2 driver becoming an instructor have to learn Chester, Preston, Buxton, Alsager, Newton Heath and Victoria as their link doesn’t sign these?

At my place Driving Assessors (who seem to have the same role as instructors at Northern) sign everything at their depot even if it’s another links work. They maintain their line of work in their link but of course can be used to cross cover another link from spare/RDW etc.

Just wondered if it was the same for Northern?

Only what's in link... instructors do not assess that's DTMs job

 

[skyhigh]

instructors do not assess that's DTMs job

They do on the East.

 

[TheVicLine]

20+ years on the railway and I've never heard of a driver mentor, I guess that it's TOC specific.

 

[172007]

My Toc just has DI's but with levels.

Level 1 can have front end turner only (drivers at the start of training observing what's its like for two weeks)
Level 2 instruct new drivers from 0 hours to pass out (pass out by DM's) and also instruct post qualified drivers back from long term absence etc
Level 3 can run teaching courses such as traction courses and do safety briefs
Level 4 co-ordinates all the DI's for their patch and interfaces to the DM's.

DI's have to do all the paperwork, logging hours including over each route etc which I believe some Tocs get the trainees to do.

Salary uplift including and a bonus on top. Its a promotional position so paid the uplift and bonus regardless of whether there are any trainees or not. Simply wouldn't do it without this as you risking your own licence if the trainee makes a mistake etc.

 

[Horizon22]

My Toc just has DI's but with levels.

Level 1 can have front end turner only (drivers at the start of training observing what's its like for two weeks)
Level 2 instruct new drivers from 0 hours to pass out (pass out by DM's) and also instruct post qualified drivers back from long term absence etc
Level 3 can run teaching courses such as traction courses and do safety briefs
Level 4 co-ordinates all the DI's for their patch and interfaces to the DM's.

DI's have to do all the paperwork, logging hours including over each route etc which I believe some Tocs get the trainees to do.

Salary uplift including and a bonus on top. Its a promotional position so paid the uplift and bonus regardless of whether there are any trainees or not. Simply wouldn't do it without this as you risking your own licence if the trainee makes a mistake etc.

Level 4 sounds like a Team Leader, or even a Driver Manager! Level 3 is a fair amount of work too. It makes you wonder how much the latter is doing.

 

[HeelBurton]

Level 4 sounds like a Team Leader, or even a Driver Manager! Level 3 is a fair amount of work too. It makes you wonder how much the latter is doing.

Sometimes there is a very thin line between a senior driving instructor and a driver manager….

 

[driver9000]

20+ years on the railway and I've never heard of a driver mentor, I guess that it's TOC specific.

From memory Arriva Trains North had the Driver Mentor title while North Western had Instructor Driver. Both were essentially the same job and stayed that way into the original Northern days.

 

[dk1]

20+ years on the railway and I've never heard of a driver mentor, I guess that it's TOC specific.

We’ve only had that in managerial grades at my TOC. Nothing like that for traincrew.