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Diesel running under wires on the ECML north of York?

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Dan G

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Someone on the internet tells me:
Bi-mode trains with pantographs on the roof routinely run on diesel under the wires for the entire section of the East Coast Main Line north of York. Because the power supply upgrade up there was descoped, there isn’t enough electricity!
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Is that true?
 
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swt_passenger

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Dan G said:
Someone on the internet tells me:

Is that true?
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Very true. There’s a half built SFC feeder station major upgrade at Marshall Meadows, just north of Berwick, that was mothballed part built. Was designed specifically to overcome the power capacity issues in the area, and was discussed at length in the ECML power upgrade thread.

a recent Q&A here:

Why do TPE 802's operating Edinburgh to Berwick-upon-Tweed and Newcastle run on diesel?

Why do TPE 802's operating Edinburgh to Berwick-upon-Tweed and Newcastle run on diesel when the whole route is electrified?
www.railforums.co.uk www.railforums.co.uk

the main ECML Upgrade here:

ECML Power Supply Upgrade

The planned ECML South upgrade to autotransformer feeding was (almost) entirely descoped to boosterless classic feeding. The requirement for insulated ATF runs because of possession arrangements with respect to the ECML's non-bidi paired-by-direction configuration may have been a factor in that...
www.railforums.co.uk www.railforums.co.uk

might be best to search on “Marshall Meadows” in the latter thread.
 
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Dan G

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Interesting links, thank you.

Reading between the lines a little bit, does that mean that an electric train takes half an hour to travel through that section, and the supply is only sufficient for one train at a time (in each direction)?
 
GRALISTAIR

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And although we in the enthusiast community maybe understanding, it is not a good advert for electrification.
 
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3RDGEN

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Dan G said:
Interesting links, thank you.

Reading between the lines a little bit, does that mean that an electric train takes half an hour to travel through that section, and the supply is only sufficient for one train at a time (in each direction)?
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No, as above there is a potential issue Chathill to Longniddry so the TPE Newcastle - Edinburgh are in general pathed on diesel in that area, search for Reston RTT as below;

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W85787/2026-05-20/detailed#allox_id=0".

There are two LNER London - Edinburgh services through that area every hour within a few minutes which are pathed on electric even when one of them is a Bi-mode set heading for Aberdeen/Inverness.

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:RSN/2026-05-20/1048".

If there are supply issues or a train fault then there maybe more diesel running but that just keeps the trains moving with minimal delay.
 
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zwk500

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GRALISTAIR said:
And although we in the enthusiast community maybe understanding, it is not a good advert for electrification.
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Indeed, although it is also an important highlight that electrification is not as simple as just putting wires up. Which is an impression given by some industry press/personalities.
 
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Dan G

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3RDGEN said:
No, as above there is a potential issue Chathill to Longniddry so the TPE Newcastle - Edinburgh are in general pathed on diesel in that area, search for Reston RTT as below;

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W85787/2026-05-20/detailed#allox_id=0".

There are two LNER London - Edinburgh services through that area every hour within a few minutes which are pathed on electric even when one of them is a Bi-mode set heading for Aberdeen/Inverness.

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:RSN/2026-05-20/1048".

If there are supply issues or a train fault then there maybe more diesel running but that just keeps the trains moving with minimal delay.
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The issue is evidently power supply. The implication is only two trains can be powered in that section at the same time
 
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3RDGEN

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Dan G said:
The issue is evidently power supply. The implication is only two trains can be powered in that section at the same time
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As below from 14/05/26 three LNER electric 801's pass Reston within four minutes, this happens hourly during the day with none of the LNER's pathed on diesel even when Bi-modes are used.

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-05-14/1427?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GR"

In the past LNER ran four trains per hour in total but some were HST's so that reduced demand on the power supply by default, the same is happening now but to a much lesser extend with the TPE's only run two hourly so it's not that much of an issue. Do they actually run on diesel anyway?
 
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swt_passenger

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3RDGEN said:
As below from 14/05/26 three LNER electric 801's pass Reston within four minutes, this happens hourly during the day with none of the LNER's pathed on diesel even when Bi-modes are used.

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-05-14/1427?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GR"

In the past LNER ran four trains per hour in total but some were HST's so that reduced demand on the power supply by default, the same is happening now but to a much lesser extend with the TPE's only run two hourly so it's not that much of an issue. Do they actually run on diesel anyway?
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One of the underlying reasons TPE run on diesel is to allow Lumo to run on overhead. IIRC the latter service, although not yet started at the time TPE introduced their stopper, was already approved by ORR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

dk1 said:
Yes of course. Been like this several years. Ongoing feeder boosts will eventually solve the issue.
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For some incredibly low level of ‘ongoing’ - unless you have recent news of a restart?
 
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swt_passenger said:
One of the underlying reasons TPE run on diesel is to allow Lumo to run on overhead. IIRC the latter service, although not yet started at the time TPE introduced their stopper, was already approved by ORR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


For some incredibly low level of ‘ongoing’ - unless you have recent news of a restart?
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No just assumed it was ongoing. Oh well.
 
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zwk500

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zwk500

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swt_passenger said:
Please note though that the output column in that EDP table doesn’t mention north of Newcastle.
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It doesn't, but the LinkedIn page does:
Phase 2
The Power Supply Upgrade powered forward into its second phase in September 2020, when a £216.2m contract was awarded to the Rail Electrification Alliance.

Phase 2 of the project involves the installation of feeder and substations along the route, capacity upgrades, new 132kv connection at Hambleton junction and upgrades to existing power supply connections.

This phase will deliver upgraded power to the East Coast Main Line railway between Doncaster and Edinburgh and will include:

Installing 27 new traction substations
Installing 1000 km new cabling including feeder cables and telecoms cabling
Construction of supporting foundations and structures for substations and to support overhead line equipment
Introduction of 2 New Static Frequency Converter Compounds at 132kV supply connection points.

Alliance Partners include: Jacobs, J Murphy & Sons, Network Rail, Siemens Mobility, Systra & VolkerRail
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Between that and the Scotland EDP not having been updated since July 2022, and no Upgrades are mentioned for Berwick-Edinburgh on the Scotland's Railway website, it's difficult to know if the project has actually descoped, or if it's just crawling along, or some other thing, from publicly available info.
 
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swt_passenger

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zwk500 said:
It doesn't, but the LinkedIn page does:

Between that and the Scotland EDP not having been updated since July 2022, and no Upgrades are mentioned for Berwick-Edinburgh on the Scotland's Railway website, it's difficult to know if the project has actually descoped, or if it's just crawling along, or some other thing, from publicly available info.
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Thanks for adding that, I couldn’t see the LinkIn details. Normally their links have opened for me ok, but not that one. I don’t see ‘Scotlands Railway’ having any skin in the game though, if only it had been originally built a mile up the road…
 
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GraphitProjekt

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zwk500 said:
It doesn't, but the LinkedIn page does:

Between that and the Scotland EDP not having been updated since July 2022, and no Upgrades are mentioned for Berwick-Edinburgh on the Scotland's Railway website, it's difficult to know if the project has actually descoped, or if it's just crawling along, or some other thing, from publicly available info.
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It's hard to tell because press release posts like this tend to warp time around. The new 132kV connections at Hambleton Junction and indeed the dual set of SFC equipment have been in operation for a while but are mentioned in the present tense. In the bullet point list they say "2 New SFC compounds at 132kV supply connection points". This could refer to Hambleton Junction's dual equipment or to the idea of 2 new SFC feeder stations which would mean Marshall Meadows. And all that is if their wording can be faithfully depended upon as completely accurate to whatever interpretation they meant.

In short, I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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