Did Any Of The Class 220s Make It To Euston?

[Discuss223]

Editor Note: Please feel free to move to the History section or merge in to the existing Voyager thread if deemed appropriate.

Did any of the Class 220s run to Euston in service with Virgin? I gather that in the days of Virgin having both the CrossCountry and West Coast franchise, they used to mix them around and use stock on both routes. I looked on Flickr.com to see if there were any pictures of 220s on the West Coast services, but couldn't see any.

 

[cjbirkett]

Wasn't the Holyhead train Voyagers at some point? I've no pics but I'm sure they ran on it (or I'm having a senior moment!)

I'm not sure if it was 220s or 221s or a mixture of both so sorry if it doesn't help

 

[Discuss223]

Wasn't the Holyhead train Voyagers at some point? I've no pics but I'm sure they ran on it (or I'm having a senior moment!)

I'm not sure if it was 220s or 221s or a mixture of both so sorry if it doesn't help

Many thanks for your reply. Yes, some Voyagers did and still do run to Holyhead. I caught one from Crewe to Holyhead but it was a Class 221. The 221s are different to 220s, as they have special bogies, designed to tilt, whereas the 220s have bogies where the brake disks are visible from the outside, the same as the Class 222.

 

[D6130]

I thought they only used 221s on the WCML to utilise their tilting capability.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Wasn't the Holyhead train Voyagers at some point? I've no pics but I'm sure they ran on it (or I'm having a senior moment!)

221s have done, and still do. But the question was about 220s, which were I think were always intended to be used on Cross Country services.

Of course the original intentiuon had been to use all Voyagers on XC - Class 47s were to drag Pendolinos to and from Holyhead. It was compatibility issues with that arrangement - which happened to directly affect someone high up at the DfT - which led to DfT favouring bimodes - lugging diesel engines back and forth under the knitting instead of leaving them behind when you reach the wires (and despite that arrangement having worked efficiently for 20 years on the Weymouth line)

 

[hexagon789]

Wasn't the Holyhead train Voyagers at some point? I've no pics but I'm sure they ran on it (or I'm having a senior moment!)

I'm not sure if it was 220s or 221s or a mixture of both so sorry if it doesn't help

Wasn't the Holyhead train Voyagers at some point? I've no pics but I'm sure they ran on it (or I'm having a senior moment!)

I'm not sure if it was 220s or 221s or a mixture of both so sorry if it doesn't help

The Four 4-car 221s were originally the Euston/Holyhead units, the entire remainder of the 221 fleet being used on XC workings until later on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Of course the original intentiuon had been to use all Voyagers on XC - Class 47s were to drag Pendolinos to and from Holyhead. It was compatibility issues with that arrangement - which happened to directly affect someone high up at the DfT - which led to DfT favouring bimodes - lugging diesel engines back and forth under the knitting instead of leaving them behind when you reach the wires (and despite that arrangement having worked efficiently for 20 years on the Weymouth line)

The Four 4-car 221s were built specifically for Chester/Holyhead.

I understand the intention was always that only certain prime Holyhead departures (and vice-versa) would use dragged 390s.

 

[JonathanH]

The Four 4-car 221s were built specifically for Chester/Holyhead

They indeed were built specifically for Chester/Holyhead but I don't think they were ever dedicated to those workings in practice, with 5-car 221s substituted instead (before the West Coast / CrossCountry split).

I suspect that a 220 did go to Euston when first delivered for demonstration purposes, as this seems to be mentioned on an Internet search, but a) introduction of Voyagers on West Coast services was later than Operation Princess and b) by the time Voyagers were introduced the lack of capacity was well known. The circumstances in which a 220 without tilt would have gone to Euston seem unlikely.

https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2021/01/virgin-crosscountry-timeline-of-transition.html

220004 became the third Voyager to be named, at Euston station on 5th June 2001. Its name, New Dawn, was dedicated as part of a publicity event, presented as a mock political election manifesto, designed to grab public attention in the run up to the general election, taking place two days later. Virgin's New Dawn manifesto was not, however, going to win many votes from rail enthusiasts, as it involved the complete elimination of all ex-British Rail stock, including the HSTs.

 

[cjbirkett]

Many thanks for your reply. Yes, some Voyagers did and still do run to Holyhead. I caught one from Crewe to Holyhead but it was a Class 221. The 221s are different to 220s, as they have special bogies, designed to tilt, whereas the 220s have bogies where the brake disks are visible from the outside, the same as the Class 222.

Aah, I obviously haven’t paid enough attention to them I’ve always just regarded both classes as 1 entity!!

Hopefully you’ll get some more concrete info from others!

 

[hexagon789]

They indeed were built specifically for Chester/Holyhead but I don't think they were ever dedicated to those workings in practice, with 5-car 221s substituted instead (before the West Coast / CrossCountry split).

That is true, but certainly at least that's why a small number of four-car 221s were built among an otherwise all five-car fleet.

Aah, I obviously haven’t paid enough attention to them I’ve always just regarded both classes as 1 entity!!

To be fair, that is pretty much how CrossCountry treat the two classes and have done so since suspending their tilt operations.

 

[Bevan Price]

I recall seeing very occasional 220s on the North Wales Coast in their early days, but that does not confirm whether or not they reached London Euston, or had started at Crewe due to engineering work, etc.