DfT Trademarks

[Doomotron]

I have heard the DfT have trademarked certain railway brands, such as the Golden Arrow and South West Trains. Is this true? If so, what do they have trademarked, and where can I find them?

 

[Adam Williams]

Search for a trade mark - Intellectual Property Office

trademarks.ipo.gov.uk

Search for a trade mark - Intellectual Property Office

trademarks.ipo.gov.uk

 

[py_megapixel]

I think the relevant ones are

Search for a trade mark - Intellectual Property Office

trademarks.ipo.gov.uk

Search for a trade mark - Intellectual Property Office

trademarks.ipo.gov.uk

And for some reason:

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=501407&domain=1
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1527820&domain=1

I'm not sure why DfT appears multiple times in the trademark database!

 

[adamello]

I'm sure there is some legal basis behind it, but I imagine, for example, the South West Trains style, is registered to DfT, Then licensed to the relevant TOC - firstly Stagecoach, then First MTR. By doing that - it may allow the later TOC to use the former's mark without consequence.

 

[SargeNpton]

Pretty sure that BR inherited all of its predecessors' names and trademarks so it may be that, for the historic names at least, they ended up under DfT control when BR ceased to exist.

 

[fgwrich]

Intercity and the Swallow brand is one still owned by the DfT (despite the talk of LSL having purchased it, they haven't).

I'm not sure what DOHL Rail is all about though, Someone a fan of the Simpsons at the DfT?

(Or where they planning a secret Monorail, like the one from Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook? Nah, wait, that was more of a Shelbyville idea)

 

[bluenoxid]

DOHL Rail is Department for transport Operator of last resort HoLdings.

 

[Dr Hoo]

DOHL Rail is Department for transport Operator of last resort HoLdings.

I thought that it was ...Holdings Limited. (?)

 

[alistairlees]

Intercity and the Swallow brand is one still owned by the DfT (despite the talk of LSL having purchased it, they haven't).

I'm not sure what DOHL Rail is all about though, Someone a fan of the Simpsons at the DfT?

(Or where they planning a secret Monorail, like the one from Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook? Nah, wait, that was more of a Shelbyville idea)

It stands for DfT OLR Holdings Limited

 

[irish_rail]

Intercity and the Swallow brand is one still owned by the DfT (despite the talk of LSL having purchased it, they haven't).

Can we have this one back pretty pretty please.....

 

[fgwrich]

It stands for DfT OLR Holdings Limited

Ah, of course. Thank You!

 

[alistairlees]

Ah, of course. Thank You!

D'oh!

 

[Recessio]

Pretty sure that BR inherited all of its predecessors' names and trademarks so it may be that, for the historic names at least, they ended up under DfT control when BR ceased to exist.

I thought they got transferred to BRBR (BRB Residuary)?

 

[mikeg]

I thought they got transferred to BRBR (BRB Residuary)?

They did but iirc that company was at least planned to be wound up by the Cameron government. Not surprised if it actually happened and the residual trademarks transferred to DafT.

 

[Mojo]

I thought they got transferred to BRBR (BRB Residuary)?

They did but iirc that company was at least planned to be wound up by the Cameron government. Not surprised if it actually happened and the residual trademarks transferred to DafT.

BRB (Residuary) was wound up in 2013 and split up amongst Highways England [now known as National Highways], London & Continental Railways, Network Rail, and the DfT.

You can see exactly what went where here https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment_data/file/248774/transfer-scheme-brb.pdf (link to government document showing what BRB assets, rights and liabilities went where). I haven’t read in full but doesn’t seem to mention any Trademarks.

 

[bcarmicle]

BRB (Residuary) was wound up in 2013 and split up amongst Highways England [now known as National Highways], London & Continental Railways, Network Rail, and the DfT.

You can see exactly what went where here https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment_data/file/248774/transfer-scheme-brb.pdf (link to government document showing what BRB assets, rights and liabilities went where). I haven’t read in full but doesn’t seem to mention any Trademarks.

It mentions intellectual property (which includes trademarks) which went to the DfT

 

[dosxuk]

Most of the franchise agreements have clauses to transfer over unused*, relevant trademarks to the DfT at the end of the franchise. Along with the ex-BR era trademarks, this is all about ensuring that the current network has access to those trademarks without having to licence them off some other company.

It does not suggest that the DfT is planning to bring back Intercity or East Midlands Trains.

*i.e. does not imply that Virgin Trains needed to hand over the trademark to the Virgin group marks at the end of their franchises.

 

[Energy]

Most of the franchise agreements have clauses to transfer over unused*, relevant trademarks to the DfT at the end of the franchise. Along with the ex-BR era trademarks, this is all about ensuring that the current network has access to those trademarks without having to licence them off some other company.

It does not suggest that the DfT is planning to bring back Intercity or East Midlands Trains.

*i.e. does not imply that Virgin Trains needed to hand over the trademark to the Virgin group marks at the end of their franchises.

Presumably this is why some franchises were more relaxed with replacing/covering branding of the former company (EMR weren't quick to cover up EMT) while others, like Virgin Trains, have covered up old branding before the end of their franchise.

 

[Towers]

Does anyone recall the suggestion years ago that SWT removed the "A Stagecoach company" strapline from their early livery as it was claimed that if they were to lose the franchise they'd have to pay to repaint everything and remove their identity?

 

[matt_world2004]

TfL own the trademark to southern railways which is a curious one

 

[JaJaWa]

TfL own the trademark to southern railways which is a curious one

It’s because it’s a roundel resembling theirs.

 

[TheSeeker]

Interestingly this morning I read the MoD have trademarked "Dambusters" and "617 Squadron". A brand of gin is now no longer able to call it "Dam Busters Gin". Maybe part of a government wide action?

 

[XIX7007177]

Have they trademarked gross incompetence yet?

 

[Neo9320]

Have they trademarked gross incompetence yet?

No need, they already have the monopoly on it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone recall the suggestion years ago that SWT removed the "A Stagecoach company" strapline from their early livery as it was claimed that if they were to lose the franchise they'd have to pay to repaint everything and remove their identity?

May have something to do with that. It may also be because Stagecoach was a pretty unpopular company at the time and therefore best to be disassociated with, OR Stagecoach didn't want to be associated with the SWT brand because they made such a mess of the franchise in the early days.