Derby's Folly!

[Mugby]

More than a year has now passed since London Road bridge was closed to all road traffic for renewal. The bridge carries the A6 road over the Birmingham lines between the old PSB and the new control centre.

It surprised many when it was originally estimated to take up to a year but it's still nowhere near completion and the latest estimate is December which is by no means certain.
As far as I'm aware there havn't been any inherent problems or complications, it was a plate girder bridge which was removed and then required new abutments before the new steelwork can be lifted into position. From observation, it seems that minimum manpower has been used from the start with some days only three or four workers being present.

But how long is reasonable? Most bridge renewals are prepared and carried out in a big weekend possession or perhaps a Bank Holiday. The new bridge into Pride Park at the north end of Derby Station (I think a much larger project) was constructed in far less time. And hasn't the Shaftholme flyover been built in less time also?

Isn't a year and four months (and counting) rather excessive for a standard bridge renewal?

 

[snowball]

Sounds a lot to me. The bridge carrying Rochdale Road, Manchester (A664) over the lines out of Victoria is being rebuilt for electrification and is closed for five months, preceded by a month or so of single alternate line traffic on the bridge.

 

[JohnB57]

Article here.

The London Road bridge project is a joint scheme between Network Rail and Derby City Council.

A Network Rail spokesman said the delay was down to issues with the "design and build of the bridge" and "the supply of the steel required".

He said: "We apologise to the people of Derby that work to replace London Road bridge is taking longer than originally planned. Our teams are working hard to minimise the delay. We are confident that the bridge will reopen before Christmas and are working to bring that date forwards if at all possible."

The work, which started on August 19 last year, is needed because the bridge's 135-year-old structure had deteriorated so much that it was propped up by supports. This had meant that a 7.5-tonne weight limit was put in force.

But businesses in the area had always feared an impact on their trade and say they have been proven right.

Ray Wheatley, director of Willbond Plumbing Centre, in London Road, said the site's bathroom showroom was dependent on passing trade. He estimated trade worth "tens of thousands of pounds" had been lost because of the road closure.

Mr Wheatley said: "I'm not surprised at the delay, given how we've seen work progressing, but I'm very disappointed because they assured us it would be a 12-month project."

He added: "It's a problem for us as a business because we are now in a cul-de-sac. We came here because it was on a main road."

Richard Slater, joint-owner of Boutique Florist, called it a "farce". He said: "Replacing the bridge is obviously necessary but if it was a private company doing the job I'm sure they would have been fined for this sort of delay."

Mr Slater said he linked the bridge closure to the florist's takings being down for Christmas, Mother's Day, and Valentine's Day.

AA spokesman Luke Bosdet said the delay would reflect badly on Network Rail and the council. He said: "If it had just gone through to August it may have been bearable for motorists. The schools are out, people take time off work and then they come back to the road being open heading into winter.

"I think drivers will have got used to the delays but knowing its going to go on will ramp up the backlash."

Derby City Council leader Ranjit Banwait said he was "extremely disappointed" about the delays. He said: "Excellent progress has been made in terms of redirecting utilities – people forget that there has been such complex work – but we are now pressing the contractors very hard, aiming for completion by November, to make sure that the work is done before Christmas.

"We are also looking at what penalties we can impose for the delays."

 

[rob.rjt]

The extension doesn't suprise me. One bridge for a side road near Didcot was recently replaced in order to allow electrification - the closure was supposed to be November 2013 to Feb 2014. It reopened last week...

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Isn't a year and four months (and counting) rather excessive for a standard bridge renewal?

I wouldn't call it a standard renewal. Standard renewals tend to involve removing the old deck, laying a new cill beam and then lifting a light-weight standard detail overbridge in.

Removing the abutments, central piers, fibre-optic telecoms, rebuilding abutments and launching a less-than-ordinary steel bridge over a busy railway line is far from standard.

Thomson Street in Darlington was rebuilt using pre-stressed concrete bridge beams (Bog standard and not particularly striking in appearance) and was closed for 8months. The abutments were not renewed.

http://dbmbridges.com/Project-30-Thompson-Street-Darlington.php

Judging by the dates on these photos of Hillidge Road Brige in Leeds, it took 2 years to rebuild. The result is an ordinary beam bridge.The abutments were seriously reinforced though, which could explain the 2 year duration.

http://dbmbridges.com/Project-15-Hillidge-Road.php

So 18 months isn't a folly in the slightest. The Derby Telegraph and it's woefully ill-informed readers may believe that you can lift a bridge in overnight and that's the job done, but they will often overlook the fact that a plastic footbridge is a little bit different to a road bridge!

There are plenty of other routes round Derby motorists can use while the bridge closed.

 

[DarloRich]

More than a year has now passed since London Road bridge was closed to all road traffic for renewal. The bridge carries the A6 road over the Birmingham lines between the old PSB and the new control centre.

It surprised many when it was originally estimated to take up to a year but it's still nowhere near completion and the latest estimate is December which is by no means certain.
As far as I'm aware there havn't been any inherent problems or complications, it was a plate girder bridge which was removed and then required new abutments before the new steelwork can be lifted into position. From observation, it seems that minimum manpower has been used from the start with some days only three or four workers being present.

But how long is reasonable? Most bridge renewals are prepared and carried out in a big weekend possession or perhaps a Bank Holiday. The new bridge into Pride Park at the north end of Derby Station (I think a much larger project) was constructed in far less time. And hasn't the Shaftholme flyover been built in less time also?

Isn't a year and four months (and counting) rather excessive for a standard bridge renewal?

Whilst I am sure you know best I might suggest that you are not comparing like with like nor understanding civil engineering challenges in a railway environment. The other renewals you quoted are part of much larger engineering projects, directly impact on the performance of the railway, cost vastly more to deliver in a tight possession window and have an army of men working on them. Also most of the work for those type of jobs goes on before the new bridge deck is put in place.

The details from civ-eng-jim are helpfully illustrative of the point I was going to make.

 

[dbmbridges]

Hi - good to see my web site being used as a source of reference.

I just wanted to comment on the two projects and time scales -

Thomson Street in took so long to complete for two main reasons - the services on the bridge - the interface with the water main was a huge task the 500mm dia main was high pressure and never turned off !! this took some planning.

The other main issue was access we only got possessions (East coast main line) on a Saturday night and generally by the time the power was turned off (typically 01:30) and then back on (05:30) this gave typically a 4hr window each week end to do demolition and installation (i know i worked nearly every night shift from Nov 2012 to Feb 2013).

I will just comment on the weather also - when we put the "standard beams in" i think we were the only project anywhere in LNE every other project was cancelled due to the heavy snow - the beams were actually installed in a snow storm.!!

Hillidge road project was part of Leeds inner ring road stage 7 and as it was an outside parties project for Leeds City council it's design was complex - the bridge was also part of a group of bridges (Projects 17,18, 19 on my website as well as a massive underpass and viaduct)

The bridge itself is full integral and the abutments needed extensive works in two phases - this was very logistically difficult especially as it required to maintain access for pedestrians and also services at all times.

Hillidge was far from a standard renewal - the concrete deck units were supported on temporary works and stitched together with a concrete slab.

I would just like to say that when it comes to bridges there is no such thing as a "standard renewal" they are all different. I have added a good few projects to my website over the past few months - hopefully these may be of interest and my email address is on the website if anyone wants more information on any of the projects.

Cheers

David

 

[dysonsphere]

Nice site dm I remember when they were sorting bridges for Heathrow wiring the amount of services in the bridges was more that they ever expected, guess there is a lack of old records of what was done early 20th C

 

[DarloRich]

Hi - good to see my web site being used as a source of reference.

I just wanted to comment on the two projects and time scales -

Thomson Street in took so long to complete for two main reasons - the services on the bridge - the interface with the water main was a huge task the 500mm dia main was high pressure and never turned off !! this took some planning.

The other main issue was access we only got possessions (East coast main line) on a Saturday night and generally by the time the power was turned off (typically 01:30) and then back on (05:30) this gave typically a 4hr window each week end to do demolition and installation (i know i worked nearly every night shift from Nov 2012 to Feb 2013).

I will just comment on the weather also - when we put the "standard beams in" i think we were the only project anywhere in LNE every other project was cancelled due to the heavy snow - the beams were actually installed in a snow storm.!!

Interesting details on the Thompson Street bridge. When I lived in Darlo I used the old bridge all the time. The new one is a lot better to use!

The point about possessions and utilities is often overlooked by the "lay man". It is incredibly difficult to schedule work packages in such a small window. 4 hrs is about the shortest available!