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Derailment at Sudbury

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jopsuk

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Don't think there's any loops on the line, and all the stations are single platform*, so there may well be no signals on the line. Many other lines are similar, and are the sort of lines that are more likely to have lots of such crossings.



*for practical purposes
 
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Z12XE

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Its a one train working system so no signals beyond what's at Marks Tey, and a simple track circuit at Sudbury station. The two level crossings on the line (Baker's Mill and Mount Bures) are ABCLs
 

GB

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I think you'll find that the protection provided at crossings is supposed to be governed by the number of vehicle movements and who has access to the crossing rather than the status or ownership of the road.

It would be interesting to see the logs at Liverpool St to see how many phone calls they receive in a week for this crossing and when the crossing was last risk accessed by Network Rail.

I still reckon by the current criteria this should have had red/green warning lights as a minimum.

The level of rail traffic should also have a bearing on how the crossing should be operated.

Can you post up a link to the criteria?
 

jopsuk

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It would be interesting to see the logs at Liverpool St to see how many phone calls they receive in a week for this crossing and when the crossing was last risk accessed by Network Rail.
I'd hope as part of the investigations/enquiry (what ever level is deemd appropriate- hopefully there won't be a coroner's inquiry that those logs will be cross referenced against the logs of tanker movements held at the treatment works- they'll undoubtably have to have such logs for accounting purposes and for Environmnet Agency purposes. if there's a big discrepancy I reckon the site operators will be in trouble- if only occasional discrepancies then hauliers or even individual drivers would be in trouble.
 

Z12XE

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The crossing is also used by the local farmer to access the land behind the treament works and many Anglian Water vans cross which would complely obscure any figures.
 

paul1609

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The level of rail traffic should also have a bearing on how the crossing should be operated.

Can you post up a link to the criteria?

I dont think they are published online.
I have a hard copy of the last set of standards produced by HMRI /HSE.
I think under ROGS it would now be a Network rail Standard.
 

Metroland

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As long as the owners of the roads are made to pay for this out of their budgets.

Indeed, since the inception of the railways in the early 1800s there has been a massive rise in road traffic. All that was present in those days was the odd horse and cart, plus traction engines.

44 ton lorries was never envisaged for these roads. A lot of freight has switched to road because of the increase in payload weights, meaning lower costs and more profits. Yet all the time the railway is expected to pay for extra safety equipment to protect against misuse. A lot of signalboxes could be abolished and there would be considerable savings in operating costs if it wasn't for the level crossing element.

This reminds me of the 1930s when the railways were the principal rate payers in many towns, paying for lots of new roads, which the hauliers used to go into competition!

I'd be keen to know what the risk assessment is for such large vehicles, considering they kill 100s each year on the roads and are 3 times more likely to be involved in fatal crashes than cars due to a combination of size, lack of proper enforcement of drivers hours, vehicle overloading and differing foreign operating standards.

On the face of it, allowing them to mix with 1 ton cars and cyclists is madness, considering that the railway are prohibited in running mark 1 stock and illustrates one of the many inequalities of standards which should by rights be universal.

Sadly, like Paul, the media will concentrate quite possibly on what crossing protections were in place and add yet more cost on the rail network giving rails critics another way to bash it, which it should be the roads that are brought up to rail standards.
 

TDK

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Forgive me for perhaps being a bit naive, but has anyone ever investigated the possibility of fitting some kind of sensor to these and every other type of LC that would detect the presence of a vehicle and on activation would put all rail signals at danger?

I'm aware in this and similar cases that, depending on line/train speeds, there might not be time for a train to stop in time, but worth considering? Am I missing something?

It's all down to cost analysis and the frequency of accidents at locations, it is unfortunate that human life has a price on any high risk scenarios be it the railway, roads, busses, work sites. A risk assessed base cost analysis would be carried out and to be honest to fit all UWC/UWG crossings with sensors would never take place, the route I drive has 15 UWC in a block section of 9 miles that would be 15 signal instalations, there are a lot more of these types of crossings than you would imagine.
 

Metroland

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The Railway Safety Principles and Guidance on level crossings document (HSE, 1996)
outlines a set of criteria/conditions in which MWLs should be provided. The following summarise these conditions.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/pdf/reports/research/T269_rpt2_final.pdf

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_... Management/Guidance Notes/GIGN7611 Iss 1.pdf

Costs all have to be taken into account, it is no good having high standards for rail, paid for by rail users, which in effect means traffic is forced onto the roads where there is a greater risk of death and injury. That is not good safety management. We cannot continue to have knee-jerk reactions every time there is a rail or aviation accident, and just dismiss road accidents out of hand.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hero driver ‘may have saved many lives’

EVENING STAR EXCLUSIVE: A train driver was today hailed a hero for possibly saving “many lives” due to his quick thinking in last night’s Suffolk rail crash.

vening Star sources today confirmed the driver’s incredibly fast response – and said the injuries could have been far worse if some passengers hadn’t been prepared for the crash.

One source said:” Passengers on the train said they felt the brakes come on hard and then the driver rushed out to tell them to brace themselves for a crash seconds before the impact.”

The driver was one of those more seriously injured because he was not in a seat at the time of the impact because he was warning the passengers about what was about to happen.

It is understood that he has broken bones but he is not in a critical condition and he is expected to make a full recovery from his injuries.

Guidelines issued to drivers of this kind of train tell them that if a collision is inevitable they should put on the brakes as hard as possible and then warn passengers that a collision is imminent – and that the driver in this case did exactly what is in the rule book.

http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/news/hero_driver_may_have_saved_many_lives_1_591518
 

68000

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I think you'll find that the protection provided at crossings is supposed to be governed by the number of vehicle movements and who has access to the crossing rather than the status or ownership of the road.

It would be interesting to see the logs at Liverpool St to see how many phone calls they receive in a week for this crossing and when the crossing was last risk accessed by Network Rail.

I still reckon by the current criteria this should have had red/green warning lights as a minimum.

The criteria is detailed in the following ORR pdf

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/rspg-2e-levxngs.pdf

Railway Safety Principles and Guidance, Part 2, section E - Guidance on level crossings

Section 10, pages 27 & 28 refer to User Worked Crossings on Private Roads
 

Any Permitted

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Not odd at all - any of the 156 units in the fleet can work that diagram on a weekday.

Ah right I didn't know the Sudbury line's stock came from Crown Point, I thought it came from Ilford. To be honest I'm not basing this on anything I just thought it was closer.

This does mean that NXEA are now down to 8 156s and I think it's 7 at the moment as a guard told me one was having the engine replaced. Already the Great Yarmouth branch has seen it's fair share of 153s in all their single-carriage misery so I really hope they can repair her to be honest.
 

F3000

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Theres another picture on the BBC now:
_48778544_48778548.jpg
 

sprinterguy

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In my untrained opinion, the damage to the front of the 156 doesn't look any worse than that done to the 156 that collided with a loco on the S&C in the nineties, so I think it'll be repairable. But that's just conjecture, will have to just wait and see what people in the know decide. Definitely can't afford to lose another DMU when there's a stock shortage anyway.

I'm glad to hear that the train driver is expected to recover, it's not right that one persons' sheer laziness can ruin so many lives. I hope the two passengers in a critical condition make it through as well.
 

talltim

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The insurance for these accidents must be a nightmare to manage. As well as the cleanup costs, there must be a payment to those injured, to the Rosco for the repair/write-off costs and loss of earnings, to NR for repair and loss of earnings, the TOC for loss of earnings and to pay for extra costs of bustitution etc. Really they should compensate rail users on the line too, for the inconvenience caused.
How do you work out the value of a train? Although a 25 year old train might be worth less than it was new, does the fact that replacements are in very short supply mean that prices are inflated, in a collectable type way?
 

the sniper

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rsz_2screen.png


Taken from the BBC Video footage they have...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
BBC confirm 21 injured 2 serious.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-11006018

Quite amazing that the LED light was still working after the crash!

Luckily for the driver it looks (from that picture) like most of the impact was taken on the secondman's side of the cab. I wonder if he/she got out of the cab before the impact?
 

paul1609

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Out of interest does anybody know what the linespeed is here?
 

MCR247

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In my untrained opinion, the damage to the front of the 156 doesn't look any worse than that done to the 156 that collided with a loco on the S&C in the nineties, so I think it'll be repairable. But that's just conjecture, will have to just wait and see what people in the know decide. Definitely can't afford to lose another DMU when there's a stock shortage anyway.

I'm glad to hear that the train driver is expected to recover, it's not right that one persons' sheer laziness can ruin so many lives. I hope the two passengers in a critical condition make it through as well.

Thats the back cab;)
 

Turbostar

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Apparently, reports saying the driver of the HGV is of 'Eastern European' origin. Well, that just about says it all really. We have them all the time at work bringing in deliveries, more trouble than they're worth! :-/
 

MidnightFlyer

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This is not meant to be a racist or sterotypicalist comment, but most of lorry accidents in the UK seem to happen with foreign-based drivers, maybe they didn't understand the UWC system, and just took the risk?
 

Metroland

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A 38-year-old man who was driving a sewage tanker when it collided with a train comes from the Ely area.

Twenty-one people were injured, one of them seriously, in the collision on an unmanned rail crossing in Suffolk.

The front carriage of the two-car National Express East Anglia service, which was carrying more than 20 passengers, derailed after the crash at Little Cornard near Sudbury.

The lorry driver is in custody after being arrested on suspicion of several railway safety offences.

Witnesses spoke of hearing a sound like a bomb explosion when the train and truck collided and seeing dazed, bleeding passengers wandering around next to the track.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Ely/Train-crash-lorry-driver-comes-from-Ely.htm
 

jon0844

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I wonder if he'll leave the country quick smart once given an opportunity to do so.
 

Metroland

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38-YEAR-old driver is today being quizzed by police in connection with the Suffolk derailment.

The man, who is from Cambridgeshire and thought to be an eastern European, was arrested following the crash at the unmanned level crossing in Little Cornard yesterday evening.

The man, who is believed to work for the Sudbury-based BM Tankering, is being held at Bury St Edmunds police station where he is being interviewed by transport officers.

He was arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving.

Officers from British Transport Police are today scouring the scene of the incident for “physical and technical evidence,” said Deputy Chief Constable Paul Crowther.

“Also overnight, we have been planning how best to facilitate the recovery operation and a 130 tonne crane is being brought to the site later today,” he said. “We are mindful of the impact this incident has had on the local community, who have been very supportive throughout.”

Officers were last night unable to get into the train cab and that is something they are hoping to do today as part of their investigation.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/train_crash_cambridgeshire_driver_quizzed_by_transport_police_1_593882

All goes back to the cheapness debate: Presumably he was cheaper to employ, but did he have the training? If he didn't, this raises other questions about his employer, and if so you can almost feel sorry for him. Is someone exploiting him for profit and not giving him adequate training?

I'm against cheap where it means there is a big compromise with safety and work conditions, for example factory farming and virtual slave labour in Asian countries, and I'm afraid this is where I agree with the likes of Bob Crow and the union movement perform an important safety valve.
 

Turbostar

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But then surely the agency the driver was driving for, as the majority of foreign drivers working over here are employed by agencies, not by the employers themselves, should have informed the driver of the procedures needed en route to & from the sewage works, including having to cross a railway line? Also, be interesting to see if the HGV driver has only recently been put on the route. If he's been doing it for a while, then has he been doing this on a regular basis crossing the line without informing the signalman, & just unfortunate on this occasion he's clashed with a train.
 

Metroland

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But then surely the agency the driver was driving for, as the majority of foreign drivers working over here are employed by agencies, not by the employers themselves, should have informed the driver of the procedures needed en route to & from the sewage works, including having to cross a railway line? Also, be interesting to see if the HGV driver has only recently been put on the route. If he's been doing it for a while, then has he been doing this on a regular basis crossing the line without informing the signalman, & just unfortunate on this occasion he's clashed with a train.

I think it raises questions about these agencies and hauliers. I notice BM tankering (not saying it was their fault) was involved with another accident.

A 20-YEAR-OLD man has been killed after a tanker lorry tyre he was inflating exploded in his face.

The tyre fitter, who has not been named but is believed to be from the Sudbury area, died at the scene of yesterday morning's horrific accident at Chilton Grain, on the outskirts of the town.

The man, who was contracted by BM Tankering Ltd, was said to be changing the tanker lorry tyre for about an hour.

Steve Wright, director of the firm, said: “We believe no one actually saw the accident. All we know at the moment is that he was inflating the tyre and it exploded.

“Although he was a regular, I didn't particular know him that well. He was contracted by this company to fit tyres. It is a great shock for everyone and such a tragic accident.”

http://www.safetynetscotland.co.uk/latest_news/art/140/
 
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