Derailment at Paddington - 2017-08-20

[ScouserGirl]

TGS at the rear on this occasion. No different for dispatch though.

Yeah it's still the rear of the train...

 

[najaB]

Unless I've missed a really big development, dispatch staff are not routinely equipped with GSM-R handsets, and therefore it is likely that an emergency call to the signaller will need to take place over whatever the nearest handset is (which could involve running down to the end of the platform or to a control panel half way along).

As an outsider, I'd expect that stations will be given Big Red Buttons™ to allow them to stop the job in an emergency without having to place a call to the signallers. Though, admittedly, that still involves a delay in getting the button pressed.

 

[nlogax]

Just heading home from Bath and took these.

 

[s_null]

Do newer trains have some kind of sensor system that can notify the driver when a (partial) derailment occurs?

 

[plymothian]

Also, I am aware that it would require one emergency call Dispatcher to Signaller from the nearest telephone and one REC broadcast.

One emergency phone call that would go*:

Find a phone and dial TVSC.

Signaller: "Hello, Thames Valley Signalling Centre"
Dispatcher: "This is an emergency call. This is y, of GWR/NR, at Paddington station. Am I talking to the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington station? over"
S: "Yes, this is the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington. over"
D: "Train 1C81 has derailed upon dispatch from platform 2, stop the train and all trains on the lines for platform 2 and platform 1 at Paddington station. Repeat back, over"
S: "1C81 has derailed upon dispatch at platform 2, you want the train stopped and platform 1 and 2 blocked. over"
D: "correct over"
S: "Confirmed trains stopped and platforms 1 and 2 blocked. Do you require the emergency services? over"
D: "I will require x ambulances for potential walking wounded. over"
S: "Ambulance for x walking wounded to be called. Do you require anything else?
D: "No. over"
S: "No further assistance required. Signaller out"

*The first 6 lines are protocol that must be followed, the rest circumspect as the signaller controls the conversation from that point.

No doubt that by line 4 the GSM-R REC call would have been made, but not guaranteed, by which time the train would have travelled more that 1 coach length.

 

[mildertduck]

One emergency phone call that would go*:

Find a phone and dial TVSC.

Signaller: "Hello, Thames Valley Signalling Centre"
Dispatcher: "This is an emergency call. This is y, of GWR/NR, at Paddington station. Am I talking to the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington station? over"
S: "Yes, this is the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington. over"
D: "Train 1C81 has derailed upon dispatch from platform 2, stop the train and all trains on the lines for platform 2 and platform 1 at Paddington station. Repeat back, over"
S: "1C81 has derailed upon dispatch at platform 2, you want the train stopped and platform 1 and 2 blocked. over"
D: "correct over"
S: "Confirmed trains stopped and platforms 1 and 2 blocked. Do you require the emergency services? over"
D: "I will require x ambulances for potential walking wounded. over"
S: "Ambulance for x walking wounded to be called. Do you require anything else?
D: "No. over"
S: "No further assistance required. Signaller out"

*The first 6 lines are protocol that must be followed, the rest circumspect as the signaller controls the conversation from that point.

No doubt that by line 4 the GSM-R REC call would have been made, but not guaranteed, by which time the train would have travelled more that 1 coach length.

I'm very surprised that in the case of an emergency they can't just call "Emergency stop platform 1/2 Paddington", especially if a delay in response could make it worse....

 

[ComUtoR]

One emergency phone call that would go*:

Signaller: "Hello, Thames Valley Signalling Centre"
Dispatcher: "This is an emergency call. This is y, of GWR/NR, at Paddington station, all lines blocked at Paddington station."

Or just state something along the lines of "Emergency stop all trains at Paddington Station"

 

[ComUtoR]

As an outsider, I'd expect that stations will be given Big Red Buttons™ to allow them to stop the job in an emergency without having to place a call to the signallers. Though, admittedly, that still involves a delay in getting the button pressed.

You can get hand held devices that have the big red scary thing on it. Give one to every member of staff involved in the dispatch process.

I think pigs will grow jet packs and fly before anything like that happens.

 

[RailAleFan]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=34389&d=1503247075

OOC, what is the device visible in this photo with (mostly) pink cabling apparently attached to the far side of the de-railed unit?

 

[BestWestern]

Do newer trains have some kind of sensor system that can notify the driver when a (partial) derailment occurs?

Newer trains that have a TMS (Train Management System) will have various sensors for all sorts of faults and failures, but not specifically a 'derailment sensor'. It's usually apparent pretty quickly by the plethora of other warnings going off.

EMT had a 222 derail some years back, at the time they were having regular issues with false TMS alarms and so the Driver disregarded it. Eventually he had warnings going off for all manner of things, including numerous passenger alarms, and finally opted to stop the train. The distance travelled while derailed was quite vast! A Driver will know if a warning or particular selection of warnings are routine issues, or something more concerning.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would the TM have immediate access to either an emergency stop button/handle or to the passcomm from where they'd be on the train to dispatch from Paddington?

 

[ComUtoR]

OOC, what is the device visible in this photo with (mostly) pink cabling apparently attached to the far side of the de-railed unit?

OMG I was playing with one of those just the other weekend !!!

It's a controller for the re railing equipment (or at least that's what it looks like to me)

 

[spark001uk]

Would the TM have immediate access to either an emergency stop button/handle or to the passcomm from where they'd be on the train to dispatch from Paddington?

I expect he would have just given one bell, would be the quickest way to stop it. They (should) have their hand over the bell button until the whole train is clear of the platform.

 

[spark001uk]

Tempting fate, perhaps I shouldn't have posted last week that the number of railway breakdown cranes had massively reduced since BR days, because derailments were so rare now...

That'll be it then, it's your fault!!

 

[3973EXL]

OOC, what is the device visible in this photo with (mostly) pink cabling apparently attached to the far side of the de-railed unit?

Control unit for the mfd.

http://www.worlifts.co.uk/rail/mfd-re-railing-equipment/

 

[GB]

One emergency phone call that would go*:

Find a phone and dial TVSC.

Signaller: "Hello, Thames Valley Signalling Centre"
Dispatcher: "This is an emergency call. This is y, of GWR/NR, at Paddington station. Am I talking to the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington station? over"
S: "Yes, this is the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington. over"
D: "Train 1C81 has derailed upon dispatch from platform 2, stop the train and all trains on the lines for platform 2 and platform 1 at Paddington station. Repeat back, over"
S: "1C81 has derailed upon dispatch at platform 2, you want the train stopped and platform 1 and 2 blocked. over"
D: "correct over"
S: "Confirmed trains stopped and platforms 1 and 2 blocked. Do you require the emergency services? over"
D: "I will require x ambulances for potential walking wounded. over"
S: "Ambulance for x walking wounded to be called. Do you require anything else?
D: "No. over"
S: "No further assistance required. Signaller out"

*The first 6 lines are protocol that must be followed, the rest circumspect as the signaller controls the conversation from that point.

No doubt that by line 4 the GSM-R REC call would have been made, but not guaranteed, by which time the train would have travelled more that 1 coach length.

I'm not so sure text book answers generally happen in real life...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Where does the train manager dispatch an HST from at Paddington?

 

[spark001uk]

Where does the train manager dispatch an HST from at Paddington?

Question has already been asked, and answered:

Tm is at the back of the set so in the first class carriage if in normal formation

 

[Tom Quinne]

One emergency phone call that would go*:

Find a phone and dial TVSC.

Signaller: "Hello, Thames Valley Signalling Centre"
Dispatcher: "This is an emergency call. This is y, of GWR/NR, at Paddington station. Am I talking to the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington station? over"
S: "Yes, this is the controlling signaller of platform 2 at Paddington. over"
D: "Train 1C81 has derailed upon dispatch from platform 2, stop the train and all trains on the lines for platform 2 and platform 1 at Paddington station. Repeat back, over"
S: "1C81 has derailed upon dispatch at platform 2, you want the train stopped and platform 1 and 2 blocked. over"
D: "correct over"
S: "Confirmed trains stopped and platforms 1 and 2 blocked. Do you require the emergency services? over"
D: "I will require x ambulances for potential walking wounded. over"
S: "Ambulance for x walking wounded to be called. Do you require anything else?
D: "No. over"
S: "No further assistance required. Signaller out"

*The first 6 lines are protocol that must be followed, the rest circumspect as the signaller controls the conversation from that point.

No doubt that by line 4 the GSM-R REC call would have been made, but not guaranteed, by which time the train would have travelled more that 1 coach length.

The REC calls I've had really didn't go like that, I want to know who you are and what you want....train - location - problem.

I really don't need to know at that point your name and employer, it just wastes time.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Currently at Paddington on the 2003 to Weston-super-Mare. Can confirm engineers are still working on 43188.

 

[Mag_seven]

Currently at Paddington on the 2003 to Weston-super-Mare. Can confirm engineers are still working on 43188.

Surprised they haven't closed the station and declared a 10 mile exclusion zone.

 

[otomous]

To clarify, I was pointing out that it would have been quicker than inferred in the original post. As I also said, the Guard was certainly in the best position to stop the train in this circumstance. Also, I am aware that it would require one emergency call Dispatcher to Signaller from the nearest telephone and one REC broadcast.

In terms of the 'quality' and mindset of platform staff, those who are safety critical and are actually concerned in the train dispatch process should know that safety takes priority over performance and will have had he various means of stopping trains in an emergency drilled into them, assessed and re-assessed.

Regardless of the quality and training of the platform staff, they will not be able to get the message relayed to the driver faster than a guard. It's not even worth trying to pretend otherwise.

 

[otomous]

You can get hand held devices that have the big red scary thing on it. Give one to every member of staff involved in the dispatch process.

I think pigs will grow jet packs and fly before anything like that happens.

Agreed. One it would cost money. Two it would cost money. Three it might cause unnecessary delays. Four that would cost money.

Excuse my cynicism but that's what experience of the railway does to you!

 

[najaB]

Regardless of the quality and training of the platform staff, they will not be able to get the message relayed to the driver faster than a guard. It's not even worth trying to pretend otherwise.

True, if the guard and platform staff are aware at the same time. There are circumstances where the platform staff may spot the problem before a guard would be aware.

 

[zaax]

still on going

 

[spark001uk]

Surprised they haven't closed the station and declared a 10 mile exclusion zone.

Just waiting for this thread to be closed "to protect against employer social media policy being broken" once the speculation picks up pace, like the Waterloo one.

 

[LAX54]

"This is a Railway Emergency Call, stop all traffic Paddington Station "
Siggie then hits the GSM-R Red Button.....Job Stopped.

In fact the REC button would be almost fully pressed by the siggie on the first 3 words !

The REC will stop everything in and around the station for some distance

However if the Guard is on the rear Power Car, would he not apply the brakes, stop the train, then either send an REC (GSM-R) or tell Driver to ?

 

[Llanigraham]

I'm not so sure text book answers generally happen in real life...

Oh they do, especially now that EVERYTHING is recorded and we get marked very critically on Safety Comms!

 

[D1009]

The TM would have noticed the derailment and signalled one bell to the driver to stop, which would have been significantly quicker than the despatcher making a call to control, control to the TVSC and TVSC to the driver.

It'll be okay though DOO is 100% safe after all....

Surely the driver would have noticed the jolt when it happened and stopped anyway.
Edit: by jolt I mean train suddenly not accelerating.

 

[Sunset route]

Oh they do, especially now that EVERYTHING is recorded and we get marked very critically on Safety Comms!

I don't think any of our rec calls have been text book, especially as they are the only type of calls that you only get to practice with when it's a live incident, unlike the old CSR that if you had a some willing drivers you could go through all the different scenarios.