Delay Repay fraudsters caught!

[Tetchytyke]

Or alternatively get rid of this whole compensation thing and spend the expected outgoings on compensation payments on reducing fares.

I wonder how the world existed before the compensation culture got a foothold.

The TOCs, are, of course the biggest beneficiary of this compensation culture, to the tune of some £120m a year according to the TSSA.

Fares don't reduce.

Neil's right that the 5%/10% season ticket discounts should return - but my understanding is that it was a DfT decision to remove them from new franchises rather than a TOC decision.

It was a DfT decision, in face of complaints about poor timekeeping in the south.

I'd be completely opposed to discounts returning, unless this is in the form of a voucher you can exchange at a later date for a different product. I suffered through some of London Midland's worse punctuality just before I returned back north. Under season ticket discounts rather than Delay Repay I would have been seriously out of pocket.

tbh I preferred it when RTVs couldn't be exchanged for cash. Before some TOCs were happy to pay out on a 29 minute delay but not now.
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But getting back to the OP, just how thick do you have to be to claim for a set of journeys that you couldn't possibly do? I'm guessing they both probably used one of those claims management companies to do their Delay Repay claims for them, as those companies take a fee based on each claim. Otherwise they are so stupid they shouldn't be allowed near a railway again for our safety.

 

[AlterEgo]

But getting back to the OP, just how thick do you have to be to claim for a set of journeys that you couldn't possibly do? I'm guessing they both probably used one of those claims management companies to do their Delay Repay claims for them, as those companies take a fee based on each claim. Otherwise they are so stupid they shouldn't be allowed near a railway again for our safety.

They're idiots. They basically had season tickets and claimed for every delayed train.

Any old fool can work out there are far less onerous ways to game Delay Repay. Clowns.

 

[najaB]

You've just given me a better idea. Use fingerprint technology instead of ID cards.

DNA, not fingerprints. Not everyone has fingers.

 

[LexyBoy]

You've just given me a better idea. Use fingerprint technology instead of ID cards.

No need, in 97% of passengers pass CCTV (largely perfectly lined up thanks to ticket barriers) at the beginning and end of their journey which is fed to the GCHQ-Google complex for identity recognition and tracking. Just let the TOCs check claims against the database and bingo (obviously make up some excuse if it's found they weren't travelling, don't want the sheeple to ask questions).

 

[swt_passenger]

This isn't the first case to come to light generally though, is it? Maybe a first for LM?

A quick google for 'delay repay fraud' brings up a few other cases of people who claimed for trains going in opposite directions at the same time...

 

[Flamingo]

It is something that is being looked at, though - especially since they now have a cash value. We have been rebriefed on stamping tickets with the headcode, and stamping on the back so it is more leigable and harder to tamper with.

 

[swt_passenger]

It is something that is being looked at, though - especially since they now have a cash value. We have been rebriefed on stamping tickets with the headcode, and stamping on the back so it is more leigable and harder to tamper with.

One of your colleagues (unless it was yourself by sheer coincidence) on an HST between Paddington and Reading last week arranged it so that his stamp printed aligned exactly in the endorsements box on the back of the ticket...

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is something that is being looked at, though - especially since they now have a cash value. We have been rebriefed on stamping tickets with the headcode, and stamping on the back so it is more leigable and harder to tamper with.

I'd guess most of this fraud comes from season ticket holders, who obviously won't get their tickets stamped, which makes it a bit more tricky. If people are sensible and only claim for trains they could have feasibly caught, there's probably not much the TOC can do about it.

I commuted every day on London Midland for two years and only made a little over £200 in Delay Repay vouchers. To get £1500 you'd really need to be going some.

It's those who use the Delay Repay claims management companies that need to watch their backs.

 

[Flamingo]

One of your colleagues (unless it was yourself by sheer coincidence) on an HST between Paddington and Reading last week arranged it so that his stamp printed aligned exactly in the endorsements box on the back of the ticket...

Exactly!

 

[Clip]

Glad to see people getting caught through doing this. Mind you there has been some instances on here of poasters claiming they will just complain to get some RTVs from certain TOCs which doesnt show them in good light either but shows that it does go on.

 

[AlterEgo]

The fix for this sort of fraud is a few years off yet. In the meantime, it's up to the TOCs to be vigilant. You can normally spot a dodgy claim from intuition if you've experience in handling them.

 

[35B]

But hugely impractical for busy commuter trains, trains at night when stations aren't staffed/gatelines open.

Neil's right that the 5%/10% season ticket discounts should return - but my understanding is that it was a DfT decision to remove them from new franchises rather than a TOC decision.

The light at the end of the tunnel will be smart ticketing (probably - I can still see it getting confused because they only record stations not trains!)

This season ticket user much prefers specific delay repay to a discount on renewal. It relates to my journey, and the time I have lost due to the operators inability to get close to meeting their timetable (whether it's the TOC, NR, or something outside the railway is irrelevant to me, my contract is with the TOC). The discounts don't have the same impact, and disadvantage anyone not renewing.

While I can see the revenue protection justifications for giving people codes or tokens to prove entitlement, they must not become an excuse for denying legitimate claims. The traveller has been inconvenienced already, and should not be further inconvenienced by the operators processes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is something that is being looked at, though - especially since they now have a cash value. We have been rebriefed on stamping tickets with the headcode, and stamping on the back so it is more leigable and harder to tamper with.

And seasons...?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Or alternatively get rid of this whole compensation thing and spend the expected outgoings on compensation payments on reducing fares.

I wonder how the world existed before the compensation culture got a foothold.

Fair enough, but what measure are you going to use to put pressure on the operators to keep their timetable promises?

 

[AlterEgo]

It is something that is being looked at, though - especially since they now have a cash value. We have been rebriefed on stamping tickets with the headcode, and stamping on the back so it is more leigable and harder to tamper with.

Seems responsible, but it's by no means a fix - as I'm sure you know.

Sometimes, a delay of only a couple of minutes can "foul" a connection, triggering a delay of over 30 minutes based on the passenger's whole journey. You wouldn't get a head code stamp for a 2 minute delay because of an occupied platform ahead, and the second train you might only be on for a few minutes. Or the guard might have no idea about another TOC's delays, or.... You catch my drift.

 

[Flamingo]

I know it's not a cure-all, but at least it shows what train that particular ticket may have been used on, rather than giving the unscrupulous passenger the ability to send in a used ticket claiming they traveled on whatever train RTT shows as late over the next month...

 

[bb21]

The TOCs, are, of course the biggest beneficiary of this compensation culture, to the tune of some £120m a year according to the TSSA.

Ah, you see, I was only saying what I wanted to happen, not what would happen.

Fair enough, but what measure are you going to use to put pressure on the operators to keep their timetable promises?

The DfT have enough measures to keep operators in check already. These can be adjusted and/or new ones created.

 

[[.n]]

As an SWT season ticketholder it would be nice to get any form of compensation for delays!! I have given up claiming after asking if anyone could describe something I was allowed to claim for.

 

[Antman]

Read more: http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...tion-for-train-delays-1-7446222#ixzz4DdSRzcg8

Tip of the iceberg.

Isn't a ticket required to substantiate the claim?

I've got an ongoing claim with Southeastern, I'd probably have more joy getting blood out of a stone!

 

[Clip]

Isn't a ticket required to substantiate the claim?

!

Looking at the story and the timescales Im guessing it was done with seasons. There was a user over on MSE forum who claimned he used to do similar with his season too and always picking the trains that were delayed both morning and evening and claiming for them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Isn't a ticket required to substantiate the claim?

I've got an ongoing claim with Southeastern, I'd probably have more joy getting blood out of a stone!

A *copy* of a ticket is required for most claims. This includes season tickets.

Think about it. An Anytime Return is open for a calendar month and there is no requirement to have it stamped. The system is wide open.

 

[richw]

A *copy* of a ticket is required for most claims. This includes season tickets.

Think about it. An Anytime Return is open for a calendar month and there is no requirement to have it stamped. The system is wide open.

I've been using 7 day and monthly seasons for the last 4 months depending on what location I'm working at. I know for a month at a time in advance.
I effectively have unlimited travel between the stations on my seasons, and intermediate stations too. GWR don't offer delay repay, and there is only a handful of XC services a day- the only time I've been delayed was on a 121 min late XC service and I was travelling on a day return on that ticket.

GWR's worse delay has been around 2-3 minutes so nothing I have need to be bothered about.

 

[Kite159]

A *copy* of a ticket is required for most claims. This includes season tickets.

Think about it. An Anytime Return is open for a calendar month and there is no requirement to have it stamped. The system is wide open.

I've noticed that on some TOC Delay Repay forms, you need to input the ticket number, probably to reduce the chance of someone stupid enough to claim twice with the same ticket for the same trip a couple weeks apart.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've noticed that on some TOC Delay Repay forms, you need to input the ticket number, probably to reduce the chance of someone stupid enough to claim twice with the same ticket for the same trip a couple weeks apart.

Ticket numbers aren't unique and not recorded. As I said, only a copy of the ticket is required, so you can work out what happens with the ticket number on the copy of the ticket...

 

[edwin_m]

DNA, not fingerprints. Not everyone has fingers.

Ah, there's the solution. Swab the armrests on any delayed train for DNA and nobody can claim unless their sample matches.

Don't forget to clean the armrests very thoroughly after every journey.

 

[35B]

The DfT have enough measures to keep operators in check already. These can be adjusted and/or new ones created.

They still work at the macro level, and move yet further towards the system being nationalised with the paying passengers just pawns between different arms of DfT. See the Brighton line for how well that can work.

Besides which, Delay Repay works outside franchises too - and I'm on a route where Hull Trains are an important part of the equation.



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[All Line Rover]

Another option would be displaying a verification code on the Dot Matrix screens that would act like those coupons mentioned earlier

Nice idea but wouldn't work for missed connections. Coupons, on the other hand, would, in all but the smallest minority of cases, for which TOCs could make exceptions.
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While I can see the revenue protection justifications for giving people codes or tokens to prove entitlement, they must not become an excuse for denying legitimate claims. The traveller has been inconvenienced already, and should not be further inconvenienced by the operators processes.

In view of the relative generosity of Delay Repay, I don't see why reasonable verification processes would be a problem.

 

[Antman]

A *copy* of a ticket is required for most claims. This includes season tickets.

Think about it. An Anytime Return is open for a calendar month and there is no requirement to have it stamped. The system is wide open.

Yes I can see what you mean but I often wonder if it's worth the bother of submitting a genuine claim just to get a few quid back. If somebody is willing to commit fraud there must be far more remunerative ways of doing so.

 

[35B]

In view of the relative generosity of Delay Repay, I don't see why reasonable verification processes would be a problem.

That depends on your definition of reasonable. The suggestions requiring a proof from passengers rely on staff being able to get to all affected passengers, as well as those staff all being fully conscientious. Practical experience suggests that neither of these can be relied upon, and I, for one, would complain vigorously if a legitimate claim were refused because I hadn't received the required tokken, code, or stamp.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes I can see what you mean but I often wonder if it's worth the bother of submitting a genuine claim just to get a few quid back. If somebody is willing to commit fraud there must be far more remunerative ways of doing so.

People are daft. There definitely are more lucrative ways of playing the system. Some of these people are addicted to claiming, you'd get them in big batches, neatly filled out forms. Maybe a claim every day!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Practical experience suggests that neither of these can be relied upon, and I, for one, would complain vigorously if a legitimate claim were refused because I hadn't received the required token, code, or stamp.

I had a delay about 3 weeks ago which was 36 minutes ( public timetable ) / 38 minutes ( working timetable ) for which the train crew even announced delay claims just prior to arrival in London.

Now I am appealing the rejection of the claim because the TOC is saying it was only 26 minutes late. What I think has happened is because it actually arrived at 26 past an hour, someone has mistakenly thought it was booked in at .00 and rejected it without reading it properly...

This is a claim for which I provided a scan of the ticket complete with headcode stamp on one of those clipper things that automatically prints it!

Not going to name the TOC yet; I'll see how they handle my appeal first...

 

[jon0844]

GTR must be rushing through them, and the website even warns about delays (can you claim for that too? ). I wondered if they'd still check each of them thoroughly or do what Virgin would likely do (or have done in the past) which would be settle them all to clear the backlog.

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