Delay Repay - CrossCountry & Evidence

[Zoner]

I am trying to reclaim a whopping £19.15 for a delayed journey back in June, and CrossCountry keep rejecting my claim on the basis that:

• Please provide a photo or scan of your travel ticket(s). Ticket images must display the ticket number, journey details and the price paid. If you have multiple tickets for your journey, you will need to provide an image of each ticket, showing individual prices and ticket numbers. Note that Booking Confirmation e-mails or Expense Receipts do not show all the above information and so cannot be accepted as evidence.

They sent that as a response to me sending them the booking confirmation email (twice). What's really confusing is that both their T&C's and Passenger Charter say:

So that we can process your application and get your compensation back to you, please make sure that you let us have:

• Either the original ticket, or in the case of Season tickets a photocopy of the ticket and your photocard, your booking confirmation e-mail, or your unique journey number.

It feels to me as though they have set up a hurdle where they just arbitrarily reject claims and hope you won't make a fuss. A small number of people will make an issue out of it and get their compensation, but most won't and the company has managed to wriggle out of paying. I've written a complaint but it seems like there's not much can be done to stop this sort of behaviour.

 

[Haywain]

So, did you provide an image of your ticket?

 

[Zoner]

No I didn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why did you not, when this is a pretty obvious and clearly explained requirement? Why not simply do so, or if you don't have the ticket provide other evidence?

If you have no evidence at all of holding a ticket (e.g. you paid cash for it and lost it and the receipt) then you have no claim.

 

[AlterEgo]

What evidence did you provide them? If you sent a booking confirmation this should be absolutely sufficient and I'd take this to the ombudsman if I were you.

 

[Zoner]

Why did you not, when this is a pretty obvious and clearly explained requirement? Why not simply do so, or if you don't have the ticket provide other evidence?

If you have no evidence at all of holding a ticket (e.g. you paid cash for it and lost it and the receipt) then you have no claim.

I realise it was only implied, but not explicit, in my original post that I had sent the booking confirmation email. I have edited to make more clear - I must have been cross and too hasty when I made the original post.

 

[AlterEgo]

I realise it was only implied, but not explicit, in my original post that I had sent the booking confirmation email. I have edited to make more clear - I must have been cross and too hasty when I made the original post.

A booking confirmation is an explicit piece of evidence, I would take this to the ombudsman as your case has been open for the requisite length of time.

Complaint

How to make a complaint

www.railombudsman.org

 

[superkopite]

Note that Booking Confirmation e-mails or Expense Receipts do not show all the above information and so cannot be accepted as evidence.

I assume that the booking confirmation may not give XC enough detail to find the actual ticket in Lennon and check for duplicate DR claims or refunds?

 

[AlterEgo]

Note that Booking Confirmation e-mails or Expense Receipts do not show all the above information and so cannot be accepted as evidence.

I assume that the booking confirmation may not give XC enough detail to find the actual ticket in Lennon and check for duplicate DR claims or refunds?

LENNON is not consulted in this process - ticket numbers aren't unique in any case.

XC's charter says they will accept booking confirmations as indeed they always have until this case.

 

[SuspectUsual]

XC's charter says they will accept booking confirmations as indeed they always have until this case.

And yet the downloadable "print at home" claim form doesn't.....

 

[tutacre]

LENNON is not consulted in this process - ticket numbers aren't unique in any case.

XC's charter says they will accept booking confirmations as indeed they always have until this case.

LENNON absolutely is. All tickets are traced back to the sales record by the automated systems - one of the main ways to identify counterfeit tickets, and check whether it's been refunded.

 

[AlterEgo]

LENNON absolutely is. All tickets are traced back to the sales record by the automated systems - one of the main ways to identify counterfeit tickets, and check whether it's been refunded.

Since when? This is delay repay we are talking about, not station refunds.

 

[tutacre]

Since when? This is delay repay we are talking about, not station refunds.

Since at least 6-7 years. I know we are talking about delay repay. It's also checking what other tickets where purchased during the same transaction, to potentially find people with split tickets who claim only for part of the delayed journey, rather than their whole, actual journey.

 

[superkopite]

To my knowledge, Lennon has always been consulted. It is used to corroborate the ticket price paid and to ensure the ticket has not been refunded

 

[AlterEgo]

To my knowledge, Lennon has always been consulted. It is used to corroborate the ticket price paid and to ensure the ticket has not been refunded

It has not always been consulted. I used to process XC delay repay claims. Whether it is now I can't say but it has definitely not always been.

 

[superkopite]

It has not always been consulted. I used to process XC delay repay claims. Whether it is now I can't say but it has definitely not always been.

How did you verify that customers had not claimed DR and requested a refund for the same ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

How did you verify that customers had not claimed DR and requested a refund for the same ticket?

You couldn't.

 

[tutacre]

You couldn't.

They absolutely try - well, the automation does.

There is logic to reconcile refunds to original transactions, in addition to ticket use checks via eTVD or HOPS.

Sometimes there is a lag - but those fraudulent claimants are flagged for manual review, even if the payment has been made in the gap between receiving the refund.

When refunds are made (not DR) - checks also take place to confirm whether delay repay has been used.

Now that iBlocks provides operators with both automated refund and automated DR capability, this is pretty standard. CrossCountry is now using that automated system too, albeit more recently than other operators. It has also enabled vastly easier data sharing for XC.

 

[AlterEgo]

They absolutely try - well, the automation does.

This definitely wasn't the case about ten years ago but I will deign to your authority here. You don't make many posts and when you do you talk sense so I am well inclined to believe you that it is the case now!

We had several cases of double dipping which were caught mostly by greed and repetitive claiming, and manual checks with retailers had to be done to verify the double dipping.

If there is new tech then all the better for it, but regardless - they need to pay the OP out, as per their own promise in the charter.

 

[gray1404]

If the OP still had the ticket then quickest way is to provide these. If they don't then they should insist XC accept the booking confirmation.

 

[Trainbike46]

I don't see how they possibly can insist on a photo of the ticket while there still are ticket barriers that retain fully used tickets?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I don't see how they possibly can insist on a photo of the ticket while there still are ticket barriers that retain fully used tickets?

(1) per the second quote in the original post

T&C's and Passenger Charter say:

So that we can process your application and get your compensation back to you, please make sure that you let us have:
Either the original ticket, or in the case of Season tickets a photocopy of the ticket and your photocard, your booking confirmation e-mail, or your unique journey number

So they don't insist on a photo of the ticket - there are other options

(2) And anyhow, my understanding is that barriers are always staffed - so there's always someone you could either ask to get the ticket out of the machine, or alternatively show the ticket to, explaining that you need it for a Delay Repay claim

 

[tutacre]

I don't see how they possibly can insist on a photo of the ticket while there still are ticket barriers that retain fully used tickets?

It's a non-problem really - vast majority of tickets now are digital or smart. Yes there is a minority still using traditional paper tickets, but you're then talking about an even smaller minority making journeys where the ticket barriers retain a ticket in both directions, that then have to actually be delayed AND also factoring in that most people do not claim delay repay anyway, not because it's particularly difficult, just indifferent or not worth their time - even if entitled to do so - so really you are talking about a minority of minorities type situation these days.

Anyone who knows about delay repay AND travels regularly with a paper ticket will be taking a photograph in any event, or obtaining an actual rail industry receipt from a ticket issuing system, rather than just a booking confirmation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone who knows about delay repay AND travels regularly with a paper ticket will be taking a photograph in any event, or obtaining an actual rail industry receipt from a ticket issuing system, rather than just a booking confirmation.

Or just not inserting the ticket into a gateline but rather asking to keep it. Which I have never known be refused, though they'd usually mark it in some way.

 

[Trainbike46]

(1) per the second quote in the original post

T&C's and Passenger Charter say:

So they don't insist on a photo of the ticket - there are other options

But isn't the point of this thread that the passenger charter does not match the OPs experience or what it says on the form?

(2) And anyhow, my understanding is that barriers are always staffed - so there's always someone you could either ask to get the ticket out of the machine, or alternatively show the ticket to, explaining that you need it for a Delay Repay claim

This is what I do, but of course this is easy to forget

 

[WesternLancer]

Anyone who knows about delay repay AND travels regularly with a paper ticket will be taking a photograph in any event,

Despite being a regular on this forum - strangely I very rarely if ever think to do this.... so I don't assume others would necessarily do this

or obtaining an actual rail industry receipt from a ticket issuing system, rather than just a booking confirmation.

do sometimes remember to get receipts at least, tho if using a TVM I think you have to ask for them whilst the option remains on screen

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 17:09 ==

Or just not inserting the ticket into a gateline but rather asking to keep it. Which I have never known be refused, though they'd usually mark it in some way.

my last but one delay I forgot to do this - just inserted ticket in to St Pancras low level barrier line as force of habit.

Fortunately a friendly Thameslink staff member happily opened the gate up to find my used ticket and hand it back to me. I was a few steps beyond the barrier when I remembered I had a claim to make.

 

[SuspectUsual]

But isn't the point of this thread that the passenger charter does not match the OPs experience or what it says on the form?

Exactly

This is what I do, but of course this is easy to forget

Indeed, I've done the same going through on autopilot

Also - and I'm trying really hard not to stray too far into niche territory - with more and more journeys involving split tickets, and people wanting a break en route, there will be people who lose a ticket into a gateline before they're delayed - are they supposed to ask to keep their tickets just in case?

This is supposed to be a customer friendly railway!! (yes, I know)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also - and I'm trying really hard not to stray too far into niche territory - with more and more journeys involving split tickets, and people wanting a break en route, there will be people who lose a ticket into a gateline before they're delayed - are they supposed to ask to keep their tickets just in case?

I suspect this is offsetted by increasing numbers using e-tickets and bog roll, neither of which physically can be retained.

 

[Zoner]

It's a non-problem really - vast majority of tickets now are digital or smart. Yes there is a minority still using traditional paper tickets, but you're then talking about an even smaller minority making journeys where the ticket barriers retain a ticket in both directions, that then have to actually be delayed AND also factoring in that most people do not claim delay repay anyway, not because it's particularly difficult, just indifferent or not worth their time - even if entitled to do so - so really you are talking about a minority of minorities type situation these days.

Anyone who knows about delay repay AND travels regularly with a paper ticket will be taking a photograph in any event, or obtaining an actual rail industry receipt from a ticket issuing system, rather than just a booking confirmation.

Sadly I'm the poor sap who's ticket option is only delivered via paper ticket, and who forgot to keep a copy after getting home two hours late, most of which was spent standing in a 37° train.
A non problem for some, but not for me. It would be a non problem if the company would honour their own t&c's but you begin to suspect they make delay repay a faff precisely because it means people can't be bothered to claim. Every time I do it there's some unnecessary friction like the search function refusing to find my journey.

 

[gembercannelle]

Since at least 6-7 years. I know we are talking about delay repay. It's also checking what other tickets where purchased during the same transaction, to potentially find people with split tickets who claim only for part of the delayed journey, rather than their whole, actual journey.

To my knowledge there is no requirement for the ticketed itinerary to be the same as the actual journey.