Declined cards

[island]

I can't see there being an issue as far as the card networks are concerned with guards being issued with a mobile-enabled terminal which they can use. Iarnród Éireann does this. The guards probably won't be best pleased carrying another piece of kit around though!

ATM-only cards will not work at a point of sale terminal, whether swiped, chip read, or keyed. (Most don't even have a 16-digit PAN.)

Visa Electron cards are not accepted by the railway, except by a few TOCs at their booking offices and TVMs only. Where they are accepted they cannot be used on a manual imprinter as they do not (or should not) have embossed numbers. They can be chip-read, or swiped if a chip is not present or defective. I forget whether they're allowed to be key-entered.

Dual SIM GSM card terminals are not common.

 

[thelongestroad]

Incidentally, I was hard resetting my Thyroid the other day and whilst removing the battery noticed a simcard slot. What's the deal with that?

 

[island]

Perhaps it's reserved for future expansion sometime around 2025...

 

[WillPS]

Some customers are genuine.. they genuinely don't realise their cards are offline but some know they are. It's quite amusing to be presented with a cashcard (for an ATM) and get told to "swipe it" by someone... but that's another story.

I'm not entirely sure what percentage of the tickets that I sell which I've had to manually type/swype in have resulted in my TOC getting the money.. quite frankly I don't understand how it works or the correct procedure. But I guess it's better to attempt to get the money and hopefully be successful rather than not bothering at all.

I suspect this might have been an Azure card? These are issued to Asylum Seekers (in place of Luncheon Vouchers) and can be used legitimately in certain outlets only, but if swiped will authorise as a Visa card. It is unmarked to prevent it being accepted anywhere other than stores which agree to enforce the terms and conditions of use (as in, it is only used towards the purchase of bona fide meals).

I don't know if Visa Electrons can be swiped (do they even have a magnetic strip?) but I know they certainly mustn't be

They do, and if swiped will still only go through if authorised online. I believe this is not the same as Visa Debit cards, where swiping them can effectively override a "no offline transactions" limitation. I'm pretty sure most retail applications will still attempt online authorisation if swiped though? Honestly not sure.

I had an Electron card about 8 years ago and it got swiped with no problems whatsoever if the chip wouldn't read in the chip & pin machine...

Electron cards significantly predate the introduction of Chip and PIN, for many years they (and Solo cards) came with only a magnetic stripe, as did pretty much every card until about 2004.

When I started working in retail (September 2005) you still saw plenty out in the wild at that stage. Until February 2006 we could even swipe "on demand" (if the customer asked or didn't know their PIN). After that we were only supposed to if the Chip failed to read (although 9/10 of the time this could be fixed by giving the chip a wipe). When I started work on the tills in Sainsburys a couple of years later, the till actually would not let you swipe if it detected the card had a chip, and the card reader did not display "Use Mag Stripe".

It's been a very long time since I've seen such a prompt now. Most readers simply display "Remove Card" if they can't read the chip.

 

[thelongestroad]

I suspect this might have been an Azure card?

No, it was a Halifax ATM Link card and the person knew it wouldn't work.

But the next stop was the one they wanted and they knew the game.

 

[insidetrack77]

Incidentally, I was hard resetting my Thyroid the other day and whilst removing the battery noticed a simcard slot. What's the deal with that?

Scotrail's Thyrons have a simcard installed though I'm not sure what extra functionality they provide.

We have a system of conductors and ticket examiners filling out customer details in 'card declined' reports, and these reports seem to be on the increase of late.

 

[Be3G]

What do you think the Wifi works on, mind waves?

At least one TOC (East Coast)'s WiFi implementation actually uses satellite communications in combination with mobile data. Satellites don't solve every problem – they're no good in tunnels, for example – but they should allow a data connection to anywhere that has a clear line-of-sight with the sky. Using satellite phones is how people in the middle of deserts communicate, for example; satellite broadband is also used over here for people in really rural locations where there's no possibility of them ever getting a usable ADSL/VDSL signal.

Satellite broadband bandwidth isn't particularly high, so probably some of the reasons people have WiFi trouble on East Coast is simply because too many people are trying to use it at the same time. Responsiveness (‘latency’) is also rather poor too, but should be sufficient for online card verification if other TOCs have also implemented satellite connectivity.

 

[Flamingo]

Thanks for that!??????

 

[Freddie]

I've just noticed on the back of this month's Costco book, they're advertising card processing, and one of the options is a a battery-powered mobile terminal.

What's interesting however is they're using an international SIM in it, for global coverage! As anyone who's taken a phone abroad (in Europe at least) will know, a foreign SIM will roam to any network which has coverage. Upshot of which is, it'll work anywhere where there's a phone signal for any network, which would surely be ideal for the railways.

Obviously not a panacea (especially out in the wilderness), but given how rarely I see No Signal [at all] vs Emergency Calls Only [your network has no signal, but others do], there can't be many places left with no signal on any network...

 

[NJTom]

OK, well as it happens, I have had a letter from my bank informing me that they are charging back a swiped transaction as the vendor failed to follow their offline agreement (it was over 20 pounds), and they suggest that I contact the vendor (TOC) directly, but they may re submit the charge pending a response from the vendor. Obviously I will make this right, it seems odd that my bank would make a stand on this given I had the funds available. I'll call them tomorrow and ask them to honor the transaction anyway, otherwise Ill call the TOC and arrange payment. The guard in question was trying to help me out, and sell me a weekly ticket rather than have to make me pay for a day, and then buy the season at the tix office. Any thoughts?

 

[island]

Well, I've previously said in several places that banks are not required to honour swiped transactions against a chip card...

Good on you for sorting it out with the TOC.

 

[Yew]

They can if they reach their contactless and offline limits.
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How did you manage it? I went into a branch, the woman insisted she'd used her blue debit card on the train and it had worked.

I just asked if I could have a contactless card (on the phone) then went into a branch and requested a replacement debit card (using 'It doesnt work on trains' as my reasoning)

 

[Delta558]

The guard in question was trying to help me out, and sell me a weekly ticket rather than have to make me pay for a day, and then buy the season at the tix office. Any thoughts?

It may save you a little time but shouldn't save you any money whatsoever - correct procedure is for the guard to sell you a single which you then take to the booking office and exchange as part payment for your season ticket. That will work whether the reason is that the weekly is over the swipe limit of that you want a monthly or yearly which cannot be issued by guards.

 

[reb0118]

We have been told not to issue part exchange tickets for weekly tickets as booking offices will not refund them. They will only refund against monthlies and above.

 

[Flamingo]

We have been told not to issue part exchange tickets for weekly tickets as booking offices will not refund them. They will only refund against monthlies and above.

Given that the guard/ATE can issue a weekly if required, that makes sense.

 

[crispy1978]

I had a card at Bolton station on Sunday morning which was 'invalid' according to the booking office member of staff. It's a Lloyds Bank debit card - and never had a problem using it at train stations before. In fact, I used the same card at Scarborough station on Friday evening with no problems.

I had the cash on me, and I got my tickets before boarding the train, so it wasn't an issue in the end - but given my bank account had plenty of cash in it, I thought it a tad strange for a £5.60 transaction.