Knottingley to Goole, I'm guessing from context?
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December 2025 Timetable Change Speculation
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RailUK Forums
Yep
Welcome aboard.
Forum convention/rule is to use full station names the first time they occur. Ditto with acronyms, abbreviations etc - not that we always do
There is expected to be quite a shakeup to the EMR regional services as discussed in another thread on here. I'm waiting impatiently to find out how much later promised later trains are and whether the swapping around of where the Derby-Nottingham services serve West of Derby and East of Nottingham also means substantial retiming of the Derby-Nottingham section.
Is the EMR Crewe - Newark extension to Lincoln due for December 2025?
The next 12 months could be quite significant for Crewe's connectivity (already amazing connections) with 4 planned routes:
- EMR extension to Lincoln (Crewe-Newark)
- WMR extension to Manchester Airport (Crewe-Stafford)
- LNWR extension to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay (Crewe-London Euston)
- New Lumo service between Stirling, Preston and London Euston
The next 12 months could be quite significant for Crewe's connectivity (already amazing connections) with 4 planned routes:
- EMR extension to Lincoln (Crewe-Newark)
- WMR extension to Manchester Airport (Crewe-Stafford)
- LNWR extension to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay (Crewe-London Euston)
- New Lumo service between Stirling, Preston and London Euston
The Planner
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WMR won't be going to the airport or Victoria until Dec 26 at the earliest. Lumo will likely be May 26.
It’s not the prettiest place, but really, Crewe should see some crazy development - both dense apartments and MK sprawl.
It’s incredibly well connected and after HS2 will be the only place where you might be able to work in London, Manchester or Birmingham, with a workable commute. Plus a lot of the Cheshire tech / campus type locations.
Might also be a smart place for certain types of businesses, or those which could do some consolidation of locations.
Not just London, Manchester and Birmingham - but also Liverpool, Chester, Preston and Manchester Airport - which are advantageous for any business. Even more if the Middlewich Branch Line ever got reopened (freight only at the moment), as Mid Cheshire has very poor north-south connections which that line could help in addressing
Back to discussion: Having a Lincoln direct service to Crewe will mean one train covers the WCML, MML and ECML - which should be a corridor of national interest with more than just a local, hourly service. This new route will really spread the geographic reach from Crewe
It's been deemed enough (by the planners) for many years for that other service which links WCML, MML, ECML, WAML and GEML - Liverpool to Norwich.
I don't think either service needs to be more than hourly*, but almost all of them being two carriages feels rather unambitious.
*Apart from maybe between Derby and Stoke-on-Trent, the only section without any other services, even if changing at Tamworth can work out quicker for Derby to Crewe.
Edit: new post on this topic.
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Given the fuss that has been kicked up about an extra few minutes to stop at Old Oak Common, I think any slowing will cause problems.
It does feel like an underused corridor which maybe could be more strategic - where most of the e/w routes north of there are 'mountainous' and winding.
Getting onto the WCML more easily would be better - it aligns to the Manchester route best, which is the one it needs the least (ie. better to go via Stoke!) - but Weaver routes might be more useful and original.
I'd like there to be an earlier Newcastle to Edinburgh service; the December 2019 timetable had a 05:53 TransPennine Express service arriving at 07:30, but 08:07 is the earliest arrival now.
It being reinstated wouldn't make an earlier arrival in Inverness possible, it would be necessary to get to Stirling by 07:30 or Perth by eight for the Inverness service before the current first itinerary of the day for Newcastle to Inverness. An Edinburgh to Aberdeen leaves at 07:30, so I'd guess that the lack of useful connections and low demand to be in Edinburgh itself (or Glasgow, already possible by 09:16) that early have stopped it from coming back.
It being reinstated wouldn't make an earlier arrival in Inverness possible, it would be necessary to get to Stirling by 07:30 or Perth by eight for the Inverness service before the current first itinerary of the day for Newcastle to Inverness. An Edinburgh to Aberdeen leaves at 07:30, so I'd guess that the lack of useful connections and low demand to be in Edinburgh itself (or Glasgow, already possible by 09:16) that early have stopped it from coming back.
Kite159
Veteran Member
At a larger cost compared to the "Via Stoke-on-Trent" fares for Derby - Crewe. Although some connections at Tamworth can be absolutely awful and it's an awful station to wait around at
Bevan Price
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Hopefully - at some time - Liverpool - Newton Le Willows stopping service restored to 2 tph all day.
And sort out "Northern" Sunday local services to stop numerous 2 hour+ gaps in services out of Liverpool.
And sort out "Northern" Sunday local services to stop numerous 2 hour+ gaps in services out of Liverpool.
rdm111
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Wow, at last in December Eastbourne gets its connection back to London (...sigh... ...shakes head...). Obviously it's the London Bridge - Eastbourne direct morning / evening peak services that are returning (so is relevant to this thread)...
How on earth does stuff like this get into a national paper??
How on earth does stuff like this get into a national paper??
ChrisC
Established Member
Nothing new, it’s right back to how it was in the 1970’s!
When I was at college in Derby between 1975 and 78 there was an hourly Crewe-Derby-Nottingham-Lincoln train then operated by Swindon Class 120 DMU’s. I used to use it regulary between Lowdham and Derby. I remember those trains very well with their comfortable grey seats and orange curtains. It’s only going to be a a 2 carriage train now but the Class 120’s back then were 3 carriages.
I don't mind through services, but I do think Central Trains got their fingers burnt by doing some wild, whacky, very lengthy through services which meant that with delays from as far back as Crewe or Stoke, stuff was being cancelled between say Newark and Lincoln or Boston and Skegness to get time back.
The same carnage was triggered by the same timetable planning manager doing the quite disastrous WMT timetable with stuff from Liverpool to Euston or Rugeley to Euston via Birmingham wasn't it? Stuff barely making it to Rugeley and constantly turning back at places like Hednesford.
TheGuy77
Member
Does anybody know if Northern's 1tph semi-fast Sheffield-Leeds service will be introduced? It's been discussed for a long time but nothing has seemed to happen about it.
Halish Railway
Established Member
Yes, in the opposite half-hour to the existing CrossCountry service, although the timings for that have been adjusted slightly.
Sort of thing where, if it's going to be an auxiliary Cross Country for Leeds to Sheffield via Westgate, it effectively becomes an Intercity service.
A follow-on order of a few more 810s and making that an EMR service which does the Sheffield - Nottingham section as well would be quite nice...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
To be fair a 195 has a significantly nicer interior than a Voyager! And I've heard "normals" comment that on changing from one to the other at Lancaster, too...
Halish Railway
Established Member
I believe the new services are going to be worked by 170s. Much nicer inside than either a 195 or a Voyager.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
What makes you think that’s a fact? You may personally think that, but it’s hugely speculative and I for one strongly disagree! I’m sure others would too.
This one already has its own discussion.Wow, at last in December Eastbourne gets its connection back to London (...sigh... ...shakes head...). Obviously it's the London Bridge - Eastbourne direct morning / evening peak services that are returning (so is relevant to this thread)...
How on earth does stuff like this get into a national paper??
Direct Eastbourne to London Bridge back for commuters.
Article. A rail link between two East Sussex towns and London discontinued during the pandemic is being brought back, a train company has announced. Govia Thameslink Railway said from December a direct train will run in the morning between Eastbourne, Lewes and London Bridge and return in the...
www.railforums.co.uk
Halish Railway
Established Member
Confirmed.
Thanks - will it be via Westgate or Kirkgate?
quantinghome
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Westgate. It will have about the same journey time as the XC service, so together they will provide a 'fast' Leeds-Sheffield service every half hour.
There's a trick missed here though. The Birmingham-Doncaster XC service remains pretty sparse, which means there are available slots from Sheffield to Birmingham. The new Leeds-Sheffield service could extend to fit into those slots and provide a big boost to the Leeds-Birmingham service.
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