December 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed changes only

[Class 466]

It seems they have separated the stock on Bedford to Brighton and Bedford to Three Bridges services at Bedford.

Meaning from December the 9R arrival from Three Bridges at Bedford will now form a return 9R Three Bridges Service rather than a 9T Brighton one. Obviously similar change for Brighton services.

Hopefully that might mean better resilience for the 9R Bedford to Three Bridges services which normally disappear at the slightest sign of disruption or is that just wishful thinking.

Probably means more 8 cars on it if anything with Brighton's all 12

 

[Geeves]

I've noticed that the Northern timetables are up from December change and it's staying the same at Wigan. What happened to the planned electric train services from Wigan NW to Stalybridge that I heard about?

Remember as well that a lot of the predicted changes needed infrastructure like the new turn back at Salford Central and sidings on the east side of Victoria. None of that has started so presumably it'll be the same old same old.

 

[bigmanaiq]

Yep it's been live for about a week or so now to passenger services. AC trains can use the wires for the full stretch.

Interesting - is it just 769s as of now?

 

[ayubdaud]

I've noticed that the Northern timetables are up from December change and it's staying the same at Wigan. What happened to the planned electric train services from Wigan NW to Stalybridge that I heard about?

Only noticeable difference for that area appears to be 2W69 EWD 22:27 from Oxford Rd to Wigan Wallgate is instead diverted to Wigan North Western from December.

 

[MikeWM]

The GN timetable looks remarkably like that in the draft timetables from earlier this year. Perhaps identical?

Now we have the whole picture on the Ely-Cambridge-Kings Cross axis, I have to say this is looking pretty good - this timetable addresses a number of issues I've been moaning about for some time:

- The weekday evening peak service at Cambridge North is much better distributed, in both directions. Hopefully this brings an end to the many days that we get a massive gap in service because a single train has issues.
- Ely gets an earlier Kings Cross service on Sunday mornings, at 0817, offering a much more reasonable first arrival into Kings Cross than now.
- Also the very annoying bunching together of Ely-Cambridge (and vice versa) Sunday services is much improved, at least in the afternoons once XC gets started.
- North of Cambridge gets a slightly later ex-Kings Cross train than currently (9 minutes later Mon-Sat, 14 minutes later on Sundays). Would be better still to have a post-2330 departure from KGX, but this is still an improvement.

And I don't see any negative changes (except from the 0947 Ely-KGX (was 0948 before May) becoming the 0946, so I'll have to get out of bed *another* minute early when I want to catch it

 

[Magdalia]

The GN timetable looks remarkably like that in the draft timetables from earlier this year. Perhaps identical?

The GN changes are being discussed with the ECML changes see here:

December 2025 East Coast Timetable

It makes sense to run all assets at all times of the day. The 387s in particular are extremely reliable. It would be crazy to have them stood down, then use the 700s instead. Agreed. Of the 4x 387 pairs, one stables midday at Hornsey, and the other goes away to Letchworth CS for a few hours...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[IrishDave]

It seems they have separated the stock on Bedford to Brighton and Bedford to Three Bridges services at Bedford.

Meaning from December the 9R arrival from Three Bridges at Bedford will now form a return 9R Three Bridges Service rather than a 9T Brighton one. Obviously similar change for Brighton services.

Hopefully that might mean better resilience for the 9R Bedford to Three Bridges services which normally disappear at the slightest sign of disruption or is that just wishful thinking.

This appears to be to allow Wixams station to open, and trains have a couple of minutes extra to allow for a future stop there. Adding the stops in without separating the 9R and 9T at Bedford would have resulted in unacceptably short turnrounds.

The changes will cost an additional class 700 diagram - notionally 21 diagrams instead of 20, not including peak extras - so I wonder where the additional unit is coming from? Perhaps the changes on GN release a unit?

 

[wls1]

Very few c2c changes as expected:

The return of Basildon calls for services longer than 8 carriages. Platform works due to be finished by december after the country end part of the down platform was condemned and demolished since September 2022

Small number of evening peak services have revised timings leaving Fenchurch St, only a few minutes either side

 

[MikeWM]

The GN changes are being discussed with the ECML changes see here:

December 2025 East Coast Timetable

It makes sense to run all assets at all times of the day. The 387s in particular are extremely reliable. It would be crazy to have them stood down, then use the 700s instead. Agreed. Of the 4x 387 pairs, one stables midday at Hornsey, and the other goes away to Letchworth CS for a few hours...

www.railforums.co.uk

Ah, thanks - I'll stick my oar in there instead I guess GN discussion could legitimately go in either thread.

 

[Some guy]

It’s interesting to see the new times in for lumo. I’ve noticed they have been pathed 3 minutes being a northbound all stops TPE surely that could be swapped over as it’s express to Carlisle from Preston

 

[A S Leib]

I can't remember if it's specified for current Lumo services that they don't call at York or Darlington; if so, I wonder if the same would be done for the Stirling services for the absence of Lancaster, Wigan and Warrington calls.

 

[bigmanaiq]

TPE seem to start calling at Church Fenton on RTT but it isn’t advertised - is it purely a case of pathing?

 

[Segedunum]

TPE seem to start calling at Church Fenton on RTT but it isn’t advertised - is it purely a case of pathing?

Just for pathing reasons. Eg: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L36934/2026-01-21/detailed states just for pathing.

They all tend to be in the York direction as well so it'd be a pretty lopsided passenger service if they were to call.

 

[bigmanaiq]

Just for pathing reasons. Eg: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L36934/2026-01-21/detailed states just for pathing.

They all tend to be in the York direction as well so it'd be a pretty lopsided passenger service if they were to call.

Oh I see!

To be fair, a TPE service at Church Fenton would be quite handy, maybe on the Piccadilly to York services especially considering they were supposed to call at Sherburn in Elmet but didn’t for whatever reason

 

[Barnsley]

Indeed, I see the timetable in 1998 was very similar to that in 2007 (both terminating the 1352 at Nottingham). Hopefully getting the 1252 back won't take as long!

I really did think that the extension of this service was a lot more recent than it actually was. Time really does fly.

Im sure the 1352 has terminated at Nottingham for a while now, I think it used to go to Harwich PQ back in the day, we used to take my Nannan to Sheffield to get on the 1540 to Stowmarket where she stayed with her friend, this is early 1990s, was a 156!

 

[Bikeman78]

Additionally, Roydon seems to lose it's off-peak calls on the Liverpool St-Cambridge North stoppers (except Sundays when Stratford-Bishop's Stortford doesn't run), I'm guessing to make provision for Cambridge South. Instead it will now see both Stratford-Bishop's Stortford runs stopping there. With that, Waltham Cross calls will be served on the same trains as Northumberland Park, Enfield Lock, Roydon and Harlow Mill. There's no change to the stopping pattern on Liverpool Street-Hertford East services from what I can see.

This is rather surprising. There is little doubt that a class 720 is faster than a class 317. However, in 2010 a class 317 took 76 minutes to Shelford calling all stations from Cheshunt. The December 2025 schedule is also 76 minutes without calling at Roydon. I cannot see any pathing time in the latter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2025 ==

GA sometimes use it for passenger services in disruption

I got very close to being diverted that way on a Cambridge train a few years ago. The train stopped short of the junction and the driver announced that there was a problem at Tottenham Hale and we might divert via Seven Sisters. Sadly (for me at least), the problem was resolved a few minutes later and the train ran booked route.

 

[td97]

Interestingly, the departures from Manchester now depart 1 minute earlier on the public TT, compared the the current TT.

Breaking the popular connection from the xx45 Blackpool North arrival onto the xx55 Euston service.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Just for pathing reasons. Eg: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L36934/2026-01-21/detailed states just for pathing.

They all tend to be in the York direction as well so it'd be a pretty lopsided passenger service if they were to call.

It will be linked to ARS - Automated Route Setting. A planned stop (unadvertised) increases the odds that ARS will actually regulate the services as-intended, whereas just adding ‘pathing time’ to the schedule of the second train means it is a lottery - even if it is blindingly obvious to a human signaller, ARS will cheerfully route the second train out ahead of the first one if it ‘sees’ them in the wrong order, for example due to slight late running of the (intended) first train.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do they yet have the rolling stock they would need to make changes to services? I seem to remember talk of a service recast in the future, rather than restoration of an old timetable in any case.

They don’t have the traincrew - driver numbers are kept in line with the train service the DfT wishes to be run, which isn’t the pre-Covid train service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2025 ==

Does it need a full recast just to slot back in services cut during COVID? Surely it can't be that difficult to reintroduce them

You need to recruit and train drivers to run additional services.

 

[83G/84D]

I'd imagine we'll finally see the hourly Newquay come in?

Quite, last I heard was mid September for commissioning so fingers crossed.

Would've been very helpful for my holiday there earlier this year!

As well as the signalling alterations scheduled for September a lot depends on GWR having the rolling stock to run the extra services. With the protracted saga of the class 175 units to GWR the planned stock changes are yet to take place (Castle sets withdrawn, 158’s transferred to Cardiff-Pompey route etc, etc). From what I have heard from staff involved in the Mid Cornwall Metro project is that spring 2026 seems a likely start date for Falmouth to Newquay through services.

It has been suggested that Par to Newquay will not be hourly until next year.

Things can and do change so it’s a question of wait and see.

 

[thenorthern]

Not so much a passenger service but I have noticed that on RTT from December 2025 there will be a TransPennine services per day in each direction between Doncaster and Cleethorpes run as an empy coaching stock move with the headcode 5B70 and 5B71. On Saturdays the services are 5B81 and 5B82 and are making stops as Brigg, Kirkton Lindsey and Gainsborough Central although it's down as an empty coaching stock move.

Is there any reason for these services? The single daily Sheffield to Cleethorpes via the Brigg line service is still listed as normal on RTT.

 

[Peter A]

Not so much a passenger service but I have noticed that on RTT from December 2025 there will be a TransPennine services per day in each direction between Doncaster and Cleethorpes run as an empy coaching stock move with the headcode 5B70 and 5B71. On Saturdays the services are 5B81 and 5B82 and are making stops as Brigg, Kirkton Lindsey and Gainsborough Central although it's down as an empty coaching stock move.

Is there any reason for these services? The single daily Sheffield to Cleethorpes via the Brigg line service is still listed as normal on RTT.

They're only run as required paths, but presumably for route knowledge purposes. Seems like 2x185 would split at Doncaster and rejoin at Cleethorpes and vice versa in order to run these paths. Perhaps stopping on Saturday as if TPE were diverted that way they'd pick up these calls in place of the 1-a-day Northern service?

 

[Segedunum]

Not so much a passenger service but I have noticed that on RTT from December 2025 there will be a TransPennine services per day in each direction between Doncaster and Cleethorpes run as an empy coaching stock move with the headcode 5B70 and 5B71. On Saturdays the services are 5B81 and 5B82 and are making stops as Brigg, Kirkton Lindsey and Gainsborough Central although it's down as an empty coaching stock move.

Is there any reason for these services? The single daily Sheffield to Cleethorpes via the Brigg line service is still listed as normal on RTT.

From what I've heard from an internal source, TPE are rather fed up of Keadby Swing Bridge causing the job to stop - so they're reintroducing route knowledge that way so a diversion is possible in case of disruption (bridge-related or otherwise).

 

[Harpo]

they're reintroducing route knowledge that way so a diversion is possible in case of disruption

Diversionary route knowledge? What a novel concept

 

[Adam0984]

From what I've heard from an internal source, TPE are rather fed up of Keadby Swing Bridge causing the job to stop - so they're reintroducing route knowledge that way so a diversion is possible in case of disruption (bridge-related or otherwise).

Reintroducing route knowledge, have they ever signed from Doncaster to Gainsborough, I know they did from Sheffield to Barnetby via Brigg but didn't know they'd previously gone from Doncaster via Brigg

 

[Class 170101]

From what I've heard from an internal source, TPE are rather fed up of Keadby Swing Bridge causing the job to stop - so they're reintroducing route knowledge that way so a diversion is possible in case of disruption (bridge-related or otherwise).

To frank if a diversionary opportunity exists then it probably should be signed for and used

Diversionary route knowledge? What a novel concept

About time to be honest

Reintroducing route knowledge, have they ever signed from Doncaster to Gainsborough, I know they did from Sheffield to Barnetby via Brigg but didn't know they'd previously gone from Doncaster via Brigg

Not aware TPE ever did Doncaster to Gainsborough but yes they did Sheffield to Barnetby via Brigg. In some ways I would scrap the Northern service between Doncaster and Scunthorpe, station stops to be provided by TPE over the same route and instead use the unit to provide a service between Sheffield and Barnetby / Grimsby / Cleethorpes via Brigg instead.

 

[Kite159]

Not aware TPE ever did Doncaster to Gainsborough but yes they did Sheffield to Barnetby via Brigg. In some ways I would scrap the Northern service between Doncaster and Scunthorpe, station stops to be provided by TPE over the same route and instead use the unit to provide a service between Sheffield and Barnetby / Grimsby / Cleethorpes via Brigg instead.

Doncaster to Scunthorpe is slow enough already on TPE without them calling at the various stations along the way

 

[Watershed]

Doncaster to Scunthorpe is slow enough already on TPE without them calling at the various stations along the way

It doesn't actually lose you much time because of the slow linespeed, but I agree it's a bit of a tricky one. I know that at one point that suggestion was being seriously considered by the DfT and Rail North when timetables were reviewed immediately after the lockdowns.

Evidently they decided not to proceed with it, but it's left those small stations with a less than ideal two hourly service. If it went to Barnetby it would at least provide a bit more connectivity for the same amount of units and crew.

 

[Broken70]

Rumours regarding TPE replacing the Northern offering between Doncaster and Scunthorpe from Decemeber 25 were flying around but the paths seem to be in for Northern to continue with these. The only change I've noticed is 2P32 (2248 SCU-DON) becomes 2R70 (2248 SCU-SHF). Interestingly 2R70 runs with an amended calling pattern from Dec 25 calling at Rotherham Central & Meadowhall only between Doncaster & Sheffield in oppose to the current 2R70 that is the last Sheffield bound stopping service of the evening. It seems from Dec 1J96 ex Hull calls all stops instead.

 

[KN94]

Not so much a passenger service but I have noticed that on RTT from December 2025 there will be a TransPennine services per day in each direction between Doncaster and Cleethorpes run as an empy coaching stock move with the headcode 5B70 and 5B71. On Saturdays the services are 5B81 and 5B82 and are making stops as Brigg, Kirkton Lindsey and Gainsborough Central although it's down as an empty coaching stock move.

Is there any reason for these services? The single daily Sheffield to Cleethorpes via the Brigg line service is still listed as normal on RTT.

They're only run as required paths, but presumably for route knowledge purposes. Seems like 2x185 would split at Doncaster and rejoin at Cleethorpes and vice versa in order to run these paths. Perhaps stopping on Saturday as if TPE were diverted that way they'd pick up these calls in place of the 1-a-day Northern service?

Rumours regarding TPE replacing the Northern offering between Doncaster and Scunthorpe from Decemeber 25 were flying around but the paths seem to be in for Northern to continue with these. The only change I've noticed is 2P32 (2248 SCU-DON) becomes 2R70 (2248 SCU-SHF). Interestingly 2R70 runs with an amended calling pattern from Dec 25 calling at Rotherham Central & Meadowhall only between Doncaster & Sheffield in oppose to the current 2R70 that is the last Sheffield bound stopping service of the evening. It seems from Dec 1J96 ex Hull calls all stops instead.

To frank if a diversionary opportunity exists then it probably should be signed for and used

About time to be honest


Not aware TPE ever did Doncaster to Gainsborough but yes they did Sheffield to Barnetby via Brigg. In some ways I would scrap the Northern service between Doncaster and Scunthorpe, station stops to be provided by TPE over the same route and instead use the unit to provide a service between Sheffield and Barnetby / Grimsby / Cleethorpes via Brigg instead.

TPE are not taking over the route from Northern nor will they be making any station calls.
The paths are in for route knowledge only as a diversionary route for when the bridge at Keadby breaks or if there are engineering works between Marshgate Jn and Wrawby Jn.