December 2022 Timetable Changes

[Goldfish62]

There are some changes to the SWR timetable.

The Portsmouth Direct line sees a slight rejigging of services as discussed earlier in this thread. There will be 2tph London Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, about 30 minutes apart in Waterloo arrivals and departures. One is much slower than the other though, skipping only Witley and Milford between Guildford and Portsmouth Harbour. The current Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea stoppers terminate at Haslemere and call additionally at Farncombe in the up direction. That means Farncombe goes back up to 2tph. On Saturdays the timetable remains similar to now, although Farncombe increases to 2tph. The Portsmouth & Southsea stopper in the up direction leaves earlier and is overtaken at Haslemere which allows it to then pick up a Farncombe call.

The xx05 Waterloo-Weymouth semi fast services will now detach a Poole portion at Bournemouth which means Branksome and Parkstone go back up to 2tph. The same happens in the reverse direction.

The Aldershot-Ascot line is retimed in the peak with services that previously ran ECS due to the through Waterloo services running now running in service which means the peak frequency is increased.

There's a new later fast Waterloo to Guildford service running Monday-Saturday departing at 0033. Replaces the 0009 Waterloo-Guildford stopping service which will terminate at Woking.

Thanks for the summary.

To add to this and the Reading line changes highlighted above Windsor & Eton services are being retimed, leaving Waterloo 5 min later thus increasing the scope for clashes with Reading and Weybridge services between Feltham Junction and Staines. Seems a bizarre thing to be doing. Also the last train from Waterloo will be 23:31 (currently 23:58) - this will partly be compensated by the reinstatement of the 23:50 to Reading.

Stops at Longcross in the peaks are rationalised. Currently it has a better service than Bracknell (population 115K)!

Hounslow loop / Weybridge looks to be unchanged.

 

[JonathanH]

To add to this and the Reading line changes highlighted above Windsor & Eton services are being retimed, leaving Waterloo 5 min later thus increasing the scope for clashes with Reading and Weybridge services between Feltham Junction and Staines. Seems a bizarre thing to be doing.

Indeed, the change to the Windsor services seems a little odd. The Kingston train now leaves Waterloo at xx30 and the Windsor at xx33, so possibly it is about putting a bit more slack in the timetable for the Kingston service, but as you note, the knock on to the Weybridge and then Reading service over the Feltham to Staines / Virginia Water stretch seems potentially awkward.

 

[sycns]

Still no reinstatement by Northern of the half hourly local stopping service between Sheffield & Doncaster (currently in the new timetable there is only the hourly Adwick service).

I assume we can pretty much accept these services won’t reappear in the timetable again? As most other Northern services which were cut back will be back to pre-Covid levels by December

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, the change to the Windsor services seems a little odd. The Kingston train now leaves Waterloo at xx30 and the Windsor at xx33, so possibly it is about putting a bit more slack in the timetable for the Kingston service, but as you note, the knock on to the Weybridge and then Reading service over the Feltham to Staines / Virginia Water stretch seems potentially awkward.

It gets even odder. The Windsor arrives at Clapham Junction 2 min earlier than the Kingston train even though it passes Queenstown Road 3 min after the Kingston train calls there!

Looks to be set up for a right mess.

 

[43096]

Indeed, the change to the Windsor services seems a little odd. The Kingston train now leaves Waterloo at xx30 and the Windsor at xx33, so possibly it is about putting a bit more slack in the timetable for the Kingston service, but as you note, the knock on to the Weybridge and then Reading service over the Feltham to Staines / Virginia Water stretch seems potentially awkward.

It also presumably kills off reinstating the xx05 and xx35 Waterloo-Reading peak trains.

 

[JonathanH]

It also presumably kills off reinstating the xx05 and xx35 Waterloo-Reading peak trains.

Yes, although I note that the two Bagshot line trains move to xx13 previously occupied by Shepperton services, which only now run at 1743 and 1843.

If numbers of passengers don't justify a half-hourly service to Wokingham in the evening, I can't see the xx05 / xx35 peak services coming back.

I don't really get that though. Funnelling through Feltham to Staines, there will be:

1703 Windsor - Feltham 1734
1652 Weybridge - Feltham 1738
1713 Aldershot - Feltham 1743
1720 Reading - Feltham 1746

Gap at Feltham of 18 minutes to 1804.

 

[Goldfish62]

If numbers of passengers don't justify a half-hourly service to Wokingham in the evening, I can't see the xx05 / xx35 peak services coming back.

It does seem very odd. Evening services westbound leaving Ascot are still busy and load up again at Bracknell. Looks like a pure DfT money-saving exercise to me rather than any rationale based on travel patterns.

I can see a storm once "disgusted of Wokingham" finds out and the three affected trains being reinstated through to Reading.

 

[blackfive460]

Maybe the second train per hour would be the thing to convince everyone that the service has improved. I believe there was a plan to introduce an additional northern shuttle per hour before the COVID meltdown?

Although Northern did run a few route learning trains, it always seemed unlikely and I seem to recall reading that they eventually gave up the paths to TransPantomime.
In one of the many timetables that TPE proposed over the last few years I did see some seasonal extra services to Scarborough from York but, of course, nothing ever came of them.

 

[swr444]

It does seem very odd. Evening services westbound leaving Ascot are still busy and load up again at Bracknell. Looks like a pure DfT money-saving exercise to me rather than any rationale based on travel patterns.

I can see a storm once "disgusted of Wokingham" finds out and the three affected trains being reinstated through to Reading.

and only hourly services past bracknell after 20:20

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2022 ==

Yes, although I note that the two Bagshot line trains move to xx13 previously occupied by Shepperton services, which only now run at 1743 and 1843.

If numbers of passengers don't justify a half-hourly service to Wokingham in the evening, I can't see the xx05 / xx35 peak services coming back.

I don't really get that though. Funnelling through Feltham to Staines, there will be:

1703 Windsor - Feltham 1734
1652 Weybridge - Feltham 1738
1713 Aldershot - Feltham 1743
1720 Reading - Feltham 1746

Gap at Feltham of 18 minutes to 1804.

the 1812 sheppy via richmond is always full and standing whenever I've worked it. Does not make sense

 

[JonathanH]

the 1812 sheppy via richmond is always full and standing whenever I've worked it. Does not make sense

It will still run as far as Putney, Richmond and Twickenham passengers are concerned. I doubt it is still standing after Twickenham.

 

[43096]

It does seem very odd. Evening services westbound leaving Ascot are still busy and load up again at Bracknell. Looks like a pure DfT money-saving exercise to me rather than any rationale based on travel patterns.

It’ll save them a set of crew in a round trip. Normally the trains pass in the platform at Wokingham, hence why they’ll spin at Bracknell. Rather ironically this is a “benefit” of the resignalling that provided a full turn back facility at Bracknell.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, although I note that the two Bagshot line trains move to xx13 previously occupied by Shepperton services, which only now run at 1743 and 1843.


I don't really get that though. Funnelling through Feltham to Staines, there will be:

1703 Windsor - Feltham 1734
1652 Weybridge - Feltham 1738
1713 Aldershot - Feltham 1743
1720 Reading - Feltham 1746

Gap at Feltham of 18 minutes to 1804.

That's set up for potential delays on a daily basis. All it needs is for the Windsor to be held up behind the 1700 Kingston for it to have a knock on effect on all three other services.

 

[JonathanH]

That's set up for potential delays on a daily basis. All it needs is for the Windsor to be held up behind the 1700 Kingston for it to have a knock on effect on all three other services.

Indeed, just as I recall it used to work before the December 2004 timetable change with one train delaying the next as they funnelled through Staines although with only a half hourly service on the Reading line in the peak now, the pressure on getting through Barnes is a little less.

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, just as I recall it used to work before the December 2004 timetable change with one train delaying the next as they funnelled through Staines although with only a half hourly service on the Reading line in the peak now, the pressure on getting through Barnes is a little less.

That's exactly how I remember it. And it was on a daily basis.

 

[pompeyfan]

There are some changes to the SWR timetable.

The Portsmouth Direct line sees a slight rejigging of services as discussed earlier in this thread. There will be 2tph London Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, about 30 minutes apart in Waterloo arrivals and departures. One is much slower than the other though, skipping only Witley and Milford between Guildford and Portsmouth Harbour. The current Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea stoppers terminate at Haslemere and call additionally at Farncombe in the up direction. That means Farncombe goes back up to 2tph. On Saturdays the timetable remains similar to now, although Farncombe increases to 2tph. The Portsmouth & Southsea stopper in the up direction leaves earlier and is overtaken at Haslemere which allows it to then pick up a Farncombe call.

The xx05 Waterloo-Weymouth semi fast services will now detach a Poole portion at Bournemouth which means Branksome and Parkstone go back up to 2tph. The same happens in the reverse direction.

The Aldershot-Ascot line is retimed in the peak with services that previously ran ECS due to the through Waterloo services running now running in service which means the peak frequency is increased.

There's a new later fast Waterloo to Guildford service running Monday-Saturday departing at 0033. Replaces the 0009 Waterloo-Guildford stopping service which will terminate at Woking.

The Southampton area is a mess, down 2Bxx services terminate at Southampton, shunt into the goods loop, shunt back out and form a new Southampton - Bournemouth service just after the xx54 departure. It will no longer dwell at Brockenhurst for 25 minutes.

All 1Txx now call at Fleet to provide them with a semi fast Waterloo service.

The addition of a 0033 service to Guildford should be popular, if it gets the opportunity to run. Wonder if it’ll be Desiro or 455 stock?

I think there may also be at least one 701 diagram on the Reading services from December. (I understand ASLEF have now accepted the depot driver package, but the proof will be in the pudding)

 

[The exile]

With GWR does the new 0450 Fratton to Gloucester remain?

It’s shown as running on 20/12 so presumably yes.

 

[TEW]

The addition of a 0033 service to Guildford should be popular, if it gets the opportunity to run. Wonder if it’ll be Desiro or 455 stock?

Looks like it will be a 455 based on the platform workings.

 

[Chiltern006]

not sure if mentioned upthread, but crewe loses its service to stations between piccadilly and lime street. seems to be replaced with an airport to lime street and a crewe-piccadilly 2TPH (one via Airport and one via Stockport)

 

[Jamesrob637]

not sure if mentioned upthread, but crewe loses its service to stations between piccadilly and lime street. seems to be replaced with an airport to lime street and a crewe-piccadilly 2TPH (one via Airport and one via Stockport)

I think that just goes back to how things used to be prior to 2018 however I could be wrong.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I don’t see a major issue with turning that Crewe - Airport - Piccadilly - Earlestown - Lime Street into the two separate services.

The stupidity of that and the sheer state of the pathing and the loss of service during perturbation (stuff not going to Crewe, stuff losing many stops) means we should be back to something sensible.

The half-hourly Blackpool via Bolton and the overlay of the hourly Cumbrias and Scotlands is excellent - that corridor becomes very streamlined.

 

[Watershed]

not sure if mentioned upthread, but crewe loses its service to stations between piccadilly and lime street. seems to be replaced with an airport to lime street and a crewe-piccadilly 2TPH (one via Airport and one via Stockport)

All part of MRTF. Whilst a useful link for some (small) flows, it was never good for reliability.

 

[gnolife]

I think that just goes back to how things used to be prior to 2018 however I could be wrong.

It has an interesting effect down the Airport line - it's going to get 2 tph all stations Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly (one of which starts at Crewe, one of which continues to Liverpool), Heald Green gets a stop in one Blackpool, Gatley gets a stop in the Cumbria, East Didsbury gets a stop in the North Wales, with the other Blackpool, the Saltburn and the Scotland all running non-stop

 

[Lalzo]

Does anyone know if GWR still proposing a service from Axminster to Penzance in the moving

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Does anyone know if GWR still proposing a service from Axminster to Penzance in the moving

Pencilled in for May 23 currently.

 

[Agent_Squash]

It has an interesting effect down the Airport line - it's going to get 2 tph all stations Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly (one of which starts at Crewe, one of which continues to Liverpool), Heald Green gets a stop in one Blackpool, Gatley gets a stop in the Cumbria, East Didsbury gets a stop in the North Wales, with the other Blackpool, the Saltburn and the Scotland all running non-stop

Is there any particular logic as to why one Blackpool is non stop but the Cumbria stops at Gatley?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Does anyone know if GWR still proposing a service from Axminster to Penzance in the moving

Pencilled in for May 23 currently.

Gosh that’s a bit different. Is that planned to be a one train per day thing?

1tpd Barnstaple - Axminster
1tpd Axminster - Penzance

is really rather odd. Will Castles use this service?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Gosh that’s a bit different. Is that planned to be a one train per day thing?

1tpd Barnstaple - Axminster
1tpd Axminster - Penzance

is really rather odd. Will Castles use this service?

Not 100% sure on exact details at the moment, just I know there are proposals for a morning service from Axminster in May 23 to relive crowding on the existing SWR service.

 

[MP393]

Is there any particular logic as to why one Blackpool is non stop but the Cumbria stops at Gatley?

All down to pathing. The Cumbria will be at Gatley when the North Wales right in front will be stopped at East Didsbury. It would pretty much stop at Gatley regardless of if it was booked or not, as it’s caught up the TFW service.

The Airport line is going back to (almost) as it was Pre May 2018 timetable collapse, with 2 stopping trains per hour which gives a lot more reliability for commuters on that line, rather than trains coming from here there and everywhere running late and skipping stops. 2 stoppers and everything else either express or the odd stop is a much better way of doing things and I think the Airport line massively benefits now from this.

 

[Roger B]

It has an interesting effect down the Airport line - it's going to get 2 tph all stations Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly (one of which starts at Crewe, one of which continues to Liverpool), Heald Green gets a stop in one Blackpool, Gatley gets a stop in the Cumbria, East Didsbury gets a stop in the North Wales, with the other Blackpool, the Saltburn and the Scotland all running non-stop

It's great to see Gatley going from 2 to three tph off peak in each direction.
Although bunching of services continues, such that each hour there is a 36 minute gap between services northbound, and a 32 minute gap southbound.
It's also disappoining that Gatley is losing its direct trains to the north-east. The hourly train to Teeside provided direct services to York, Leeds, Huddersfield and other W Yorks towns - and also to Manchester Victoria. Its replacement by a hourly direct service to Barrow / Windermere, is nowhere near as useful.

 

[43172]

Gosh that’s a bit different. Is that planned to be a one train per day thing?

1tpd Barnstaple - Axminster
1tpd Axminster - Penzance

is really rather odd. Will Castles use this service?

It does seem odd. I'd guess maybe a pair of 158's, spliting at Exeter to send one to Penzance and the other to Barnstaple. If that didn't happen then i'd question why it doesn't just go back up to Barnstaple from Axminister rather than be sent to Penzance.