December 2022 Timetable Changes

[northwichcat]

I see the bulk of the reduced hourly Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool stoppers via Warrington Central are not calling at Deansgate

But Manchester Airport to Windermere services are!

 

[Bald Rick]

Reminding myself of the Castlefield and Thameslink 'issues'. Are summaries of 'Lessons Learned' available online somewhere?

The ORRs investigation

Inquiry into May 2018 network disruption | Office of Rail and Road

ORR Inquiry into May 2018 network disruption.

www.orr.gov.uk

 

[OliverH68]

Lots more upstream tonight:

Cal Sleeper, CrossCountry, East Mids Railway, Greater Anglia, London Overground, GWR, Chiltern, Lumo & Hull Trains all available for viewing.

That just leaves WMR/LNWR, LNER, Avanti, TPE, Merseyrail, Heathrow Express, SouthEastern & SWR.

 

[Jurg]

Lots more upstream tonight:

Cal Sleeper, CrossCountry, East Mids Railway, Greater Anglia, London Overground, GWR, Chiltern, Lumo & Hull Trains all available for viewing.

That just leaves WMR/LNWR, LNER, Avanti, TPE, Merseyrail, Heathrow Express, SouthEastern & SWR.

Doesn't look like all the XC services are on there yet. I can see the Manchester to Bournemouth services, but not the Bournemouth to Manchester ones.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Doesn't look like all the XC services are on there yet. I can see the Manchester to Bournemouth services, but not the Bournemouth to Manchester ones.

Still a piddly 1tp2h south of Reading I see.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I note that the last Manchester to Lancaster is only three minutes earlier than now despite the proposal originally (and modified) being it being a fair bit earlier. Is there to be a further change in 2023 to complete the Picc 13/14 timetable recast, or have they conceded to knocking that a bit later still on a permanent basis?

 

[miklcct]

Is the West Coastway permanently axed to 4 trains per hour between Brighton and Hove? The timetable now is 9 / 21 minute intervals which doesn't look good, where in the 6 tph era it was very close to a train every 9-11 minutes.

 

[Marton]

The Esk Valley early morning and late evening services are restored as Northern promised. I am surprised.

 

[xotGD]

Bradford to Skipton and Bradford to Ilkley services appear to be restored to half hourly.

 

[BrianW]

The ORRs investigation

Inquiry into May 2018 network disruption | Office of Rail and Road

ORR Inquiry into May 2018 network disruption.

www.orr.gov.uk

Thank you for this Bald Rick.

I note from the letter in response from the then Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Andrew Jones MP to the Chair of ORR:

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...etable-inquiry-recommendations-2019-02-14.pdf

We also regard it as important that your recommendation of an industry-wide
strategy to improve timetabling technology is taken forwards as soon as
possible. In setting out our funding envelope for Control Period 6, we have
allowed provision for Network Rail to spend £245 million across the next five
years on research and development activity. We would consider it highly
appropriate for a portion of this funding to be used to support work on
improving timetabling technology.

Perhaps the roll-out of improved timetabling technology is an example of a successful implementation of an IT project as gauged by the acid test of implementation and customer satisfaction in the resultant timetable in December. Hoping its not dependent upon unrealistic levels of staffing and rest day working. Resiliance and reliability come to mind, and optimism bias.

 

[northernchris]

Bradford to Skipton and Bradford to Ilkley services appear to be restored to half hourly.

Indeed, it looks like Northern's service is largely returning to the planned December 2021 timetable, at least around Yorkshire, with the Huddersfield - Castleford restored at the peak, Huddersfield - Bradford returning to hourly and the missing services from Leeds to Knottingley and Sheffield being restored. Let's hope the changes actually go ahead, as this will make a significant different to many communities across the north.

 

[The Planner]

Thank you for this Bald Rick.

I note from the letter in response from the then Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Andrew Jones MP to the Chair of ORR:

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...etable-inquiry-recommendations-2019-02-14.pdf

We also regard it as important that your recommendation of an industry-wide
strategy to improve timetabling technology is taken forwards as soon as
possible. In setting out our funding envelope for Control Period 6, we have
allowed provision for Network Rail to spend £245 million across the next five
years on research and development activity. We would consider it highly
appropriate for a portion of this funding to be used to support work on
improving timetabling technology.

Perhaps the roll-out of improved timetabling technology is an example of a successful implementation of an IT project as gauged by the acid test of implementation and customer satisfaction in the resultant timetable in December. Hoping its not dependent upon unrealistic levels of staffing and rest day working. Resiliance and reliability come to mind, and optimism bias.

Not sure that has delivered anything yet, a simple "listen to what people were telling you" may have been a better recommendation.

 

[BrianW]

Not sure that has delivered anything yet, a simple "listen to what people were telling you" may have been a better recommendation.

Thank you. I guess three years is a short time by which to see results. I have enough difficulty running my Hornby Dublo successfully to a timetable even with 'one engine in steam'

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps the roll-out of improved timetabling technology is an example of a successful implementation of an IT project as gauged by the acid test of implementation and customer satisfaction in the resultant timetable in December.

nothing in place yet.

 

[Class 466]

Lots more upstream tonight:

Cal Sleeper, CrossCountry, East Mids Railway, Greater Anglia, London Overground, GWR, Chiltern, Lumo & Hull Trains all available for viewing.

That just leaves WMR/LNWR, LNER, Avanti, TPE, Merseyrail, Heathrow Express, SouthEastern & SWR.

Southeastern being one of the bigger if not biggest rewrites at this timetable change…

 

[berneyarms]

That just leaves WMR/LNWR, LNER, Avanti, TPE, Merseyrail, Heathrow Express, SouthEastern & SWR.

We are also awaiting Transport for Wales.

 

[43055]

The only EMR regional changes I can see is the re introduction of 3 am peak and 3 pm peak Matlock services through to Nottingham (Spondon gets some daytime trains now). Still 2 hour gaps on the Crewe - Newarks, Lincoln - Leicester and hourly on the Robin Hood.

 

[43074]

Southeastern being one of the bigger if not biggest rewrites at this timetable change…

Avanti and LNW will be that I'd have thought, the West Coast Main Line and Birmingham area is being recast.

Southeastern will be the more controversial of the two though.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, it looks like Northern's service is largely returning to the planned December 2021 timetable, at least around Yorkshire, with the Huddersfield - Castleford restored at the peak, Huddersfield - Bradford returning to hourly and the missing services from Leeds to Knottingley and Sheffield being restored. Let's hope the changes actually go ahead, as this will make a significant different to many communities across the north.

We need the all day Huddersfield - Castleford service restored asap.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Avanti and LNW will be that I'd have thought, the West Coast Main Line and Birmingham area is being recast.

Southeastern will be the more controversial of the two though.

Eh initially it would have been, but they have made some changes since then so I don't think it's that controversial.

 

[CAF397]

Backward step for Hazel Grove services too, they appear to be interworked with the Buxton, so will be DMU operated. This because Blackpool-Manchester Airport has gone half hourly replacing the Blackpool-Hazel Grove EMU 6-car service.

 

[LowLevel]

The only EMR regional changes I can see is the re introduction of 3 am peak and 3 pm peak Matlock services through to Nottingham (Spondon gets some daytime trains now). Still 2 hour gaps on the Crewe - Newarks, Lincoln - Leicester and hourly on the Robin Hood.

2141 Man Picc to Nottingham is booked via Romiley again.

Until more 170s turn up in bulk I'd expect little more to change. I think the next few will just displace 156s to Northern and allow the Angel x 4 sets with corrosion problems to be withdrawn.

 

[jfollows]

2141 Man Picc to Nottingham is booked via Romiley again.

Today this goes via Stockport because of a corrected timetabling mistake in which 2S38 21:22 Manchester Piccadilly - Sheffield is overtaken by 1L20 21:41 Manchester Piccadilly - Nottingham at New Mills South Junction: the timetabling mistake documented at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-emr-service-2141-manchester-to-nottingham.217535/.
In the new timetable 2S38 becomes 2S80 21:48 Manchester Piccadilly - Sheffield and follows 1L20 all the way, so both trains can run via Romiley.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Backward step for Hazel Grove services too, they appear to be interworked with the Buxton, so will be DMU operated. This because Blackpool-Manchester Airport has gone half hourly replacing the Blackpool-Hazel Grove EMU 6-car service.

769 on both, wasn't it? Or has that been binned?

 

[CAF397]

769 on both, wasn't it? Or has that been binned?

769s have never been used on the Hazel Grove/Buxtons as far as I know. Only Alderley Edge/Stalybridge-Southport.

 

[43074]

Eh initially it would have been, but they have made some changes since then so I don't think it's that controversial.

It still rationalises some of the choices of London termini between Charing Cross and Cannon Street for some of the Metro lines doesn't it? That was a controversial part of the last Southeastern franchise competition.

 

[Class 466]

It still rationalises some of the choices of London termini between Charing Cross and Cannon Street for some of the Metro lines doesn't it? That was a controversial part of the last Southeastern franchise competition.

It still includes a wholesale retiming of services into/out of CHX/CST/STP - that alone will upset some.

 

[td97]

But Manchester Airport to Windermere services are!

Including the Barrow services too. And the xx22 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport (presently Hazel Grove), which currently omit Deansgate southbound outside the peaks. A good move as Deansgate is a popular station. Anecdotally, I'd split loadings fairly equally between the 3 Castlefield stations for Blackpool North services. Non-seasoned passengers are sometimes audibly miffed on the Hazel Grove which passes Deansgate non-stop.

Bradford to Skipton and Bradford to Ilkley services appear to be restored to half hourly.

And Rochdale to Blackburn returns (outside the existing single am and pm peak extra), restoring 2tph frequency on the Ribble Valley line as far as Blackburn.

Backward step for Hazel Grove services too, they appear to be interworked with the Buxton, so will be DMU operated. This because Blackpool-Manchester Airport has gone half hourly replacing the Blackpool-Hazel Grove EMU 6-car service.

There are select Hazel Grove terminating extras. The services themselves are pathed as Sprinters but the ECS moves are mostly pathed as a 323. And they interwork with Alderley Edge services, pathed as 323.

 

[Watershed]

769 on both, wasn't it? Or has that been binned?

There's not nearly enough 769s (let alone working ones!) to do the Buxtons and Hazel Grove short workings, as well as Southports. It's either/or, and Southport is the chosen victim. Perhaps it's payback for the Castlefield path they're (wrongly IMO) getting!

 

[craigybagel]

769 on both, wasn't it? Or has that been binned?

769s have never been used on the Hazel Grove/Buxtons as far as I know. Only Alderley Edge/Stalybridge-Southport.

There's not nearly enough 769s (let alone working ones!) to do the Buxtons and Hazel Grove short workings, as well as Southports. It's either/or, and Southport is the chosen victim. Perhaps it's payback for the Castlefield path they're (wrongly IMO) getting!

Could you imagine the carnage if you tried sending 769s to Buxton? You only have to look at the Rhymney Valley to see how well they cope with steep gradients on diesel. At least the Southport line is relatively flat.