December 2022 Timetable Changes

[TheBigD]

Lumo's weekday 0911 Edinburgh to Kings Cross is speeded up. Now departs at 0924 and arrives London the same time. Can't see any other weekday changes but the Saturday 1525 ex Edinburgh is currently missing.

 

[Greybeard33]

Unfortunately this is one of the side effects of MRTF developing a timetable for the Preston-Manchester Airport area virtually independently of everything else. The outcome hasn't been pretty.

In the first pair, the 0829 waits 13 minutes at Preston and a further 2 minutes before Oxenholme Lake District. The 0955 from Windermere waits 17 minutes at Lancaster.

In the second pair, the 1129 from Manchester Airport waits 10 minutes at Preston and 12 minutes outside Oxenholme Lake District. The 1307 from Windermere gets incredibly lucky and only waits 5 minutes at Lancaster and 3 minutes at Preston.

The next pair we've just described.

For the final pair, the 1729 from Manchester Airport waits 9 minutes at Preston and 2 minutes outside Oxenholme Lake District. The 1856 from Windermere waits at Preston for 17 minutes.

The extra 15-20 minutes sitting around on nearly all services isn't because time has been saved running via Bolton either, it's between timings between Manchester Airport and Preston which have been agreed cross-industry as part of the Taskforce are simply never going to marry up perfectly with the very few slots between Lancaster and Oxenholme Lake District to which Northern have rights. Northern have next to no chance of more or better slots on this section because of Avanti West Coast and TransPennine Express blocking paths while failing to actually run the trains in them, and more importantly the interests of the FOCs. The fact that the branch is one train working and there's not a second platform at Oxenholme Lake District which can access it also means that only a perfect exchange is possible i.e. the two services need to be passing each other 2 minutes south of Oxenholme Lake District. This is simply never going to be possible with the through running beyond Preston.

But comparing end to end journey times with the current timetable, in no case, in either direction, does the time between Windermere and Piccadilly or the Airport increase by more than 2 minutes. In most cases the timings are better, by up to 5 minutes. Certainly no reason for passengers to stop using the direct service.

Where there is a longer wait in the Oxenholme loop, journey times from Manchester to Preston and Lancaster are reduced.

Overall the Task Force seems to have done a good job of looking after the interests of longer distance passengers as well as improving the Manchester to Preston timetable.

 

[Killingworth]

But comparing end to end journey times with the current timetable, in no case, in either direction, does the time between Windermere and Piccadilly or the Airport increase by more than 2 minutes. In most cases the timings are better, by up to 5 minutes. Certainly no reason for passengers to stop using the direct service.

Where there is a longer wait in the Oxenholme loop, journey times from Manchester to Preston and Lancaster are reduced.

Overall the Task Force seems to have done a good job of looking after the interests longer distance passengers as well as improving the Manchester to Preston timetable.

It won't console anyone sitting in the middle of nowhere for 15-20 minutes that previously they'd have been delayed somewhere else. On a Charter special you expect, or should expect, to be shunted into an obscure loop here and there. At least there's plenty of recovery time built in.

 

[ChrisC]

The only EMR regional changes I can see is the re introduction of 3 am peak and 3 pm peak Matlock services through to Nottingham (Spondon gets some daytime trains now). Still 2 hour gaps on the Crewe - Newarks, Lincoln - Leicester and hourly on the Robin Hood.

Very disappointed that the Robin Hood Line remains hourly. Although to be quite honest it’s not being hourly that’s the problem, I could live with that, it’s the fact that the hourly train connects with so little in Nottingham. I’ve used it regularly since it reopened but rarely use it now if I’m travelling beyond Nottingham, as up to an hour wait for connections in both directions is so inconvenient.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The North Downs is continuing with the timetable set up for the introduction of 3tph. Unless this is back on the agenda (which I doubt) the timetable is less than optimal. Perhaps there will be a reversion to the old steady as you go, proven timetable next May instead?

Also (and I appreciate not all trains may be showing at the moment) there is still no sign of the 22:3x departure from Reading being restored, leaving a two-hour service gap from Reading to the Blackwater Valley conurbation (pop. 270,000), Guildford and points east. Since this service disappeared from the schedule I've significantly reduced my use of the line (no more going to evening football matches or socialising in Reading for me) and I know for certain this is causing problem for others e.g. a lass who works evenings in central Reading has had to cut her hours to get the 22:12 SWR train from Reading to Wokingham, where her hubby is waiting to drive her home, instead.

GWR are only able to stable one unit overnight at Redhill presently due to the poor state of Redhill sidings. DfT is not prepared to fund the remedial works there. Hence only one of the former 22.34/23.34 departures from Reading can run.

 

[JonathanH]

GWR are only able to stable one unit overnight at Redhill presently due to the poor state of Redhill sidings. DfT is not prepared to fund the remedial works there. Hence only one of the former 22.34/23.34 departures from Reading can run.

That doesn't prevent the 22.34 running to Guildford though, and returning empty to Reading, although I recognise that every extra service costs money to provide and the late custom on the line isn't that significant.

 

[87015]

GWR are only able to stable one unit overnight at Redhill presently due to the poor state of Redhill sidings. DfT is not prepared to fund the remedial works there. Hence only one of the former 22.34/23.34 departures from Reading can run.

Weren't they OOU long before GWR binned it and made DfT pay, sure has been on here given the local attention.

 

[Bald Rick]

Very disappointed that the Robin Hood Line remains hourly. Although to be quite honest it’s not being hourly that’s the problem, I could live with that, it’s the fact that the hourly train connects with so little in Nottingham. I’ve used it regularly since it reopened but rarely use it now if I’m travelling beyond Nottingham, as up to an hour wait for connections in both directions is so inconvenient.

I understand your frustration, but what proportion of people that use the Robin Hood line connect at Nottingham?

 

[LowLevel]

I understand your frustration, but what proportion of people that use the Robin Hood line connect at Nottingham?

Much of the longer distance traffic generated (mostly from Mansfield and south thereof) is towards Derby, Birmingham, Leicester, London - which has a fairly decent 15/20 minute change now on the XX07 Cross Country for the West Midlands and xx12 towards Leicester and London, and 10-20 ish minutes returning.

Skegness is less time sensitive so they don't seem bothered by the 55 minute wait.

North of Mansfield what little long distance traffic there is tends to be towards Retford for the ECML or Sheffield, all via Worksop.

 

[OliverH68]

Doesn't look like all the XC services are on there yet. I can see the Manchester to Bournemouth services, but not the Bournemouth to Manchester ones.

These are now upstream.

More has gone up today with only Grand Central, HeX, SWR & SE left.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll do an analysis of the south WCML a bit later or tomorrow, but I've already picked my commuter service to Euston and it's way, way better timed than now! 0656 Bletchley starter - perfect! Edit: and an 0705 too!

Another significant one is the return of a late Saturday Euston departure - 0139 - an hour and a half later than now!

 

[Halish Railway]

Hourly Saltburn to Manchester Airport from December!

Also Hull to Liverpool starts, along with two-hourly Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough or Newcastle.

 

[Bald Rick]

Much of the longer distance traffic generated (mostly from Mansfield and south thereof) is towards Derby, Birmingham, Leicester, London - which has a fairly decent 15/20 minute change now on the XX07 Cross Country for the West Midlands and xx12 towards Leicester and London, and 10-20 ish minutes returning.

Skegness is less time sensitive so they don't seem bothered by the 55 minute wait.

North of Mansfield what little long distance traffic there is tends to be towards Retford for the ECML or Sheffield, all via Worksop.

looking at the new TT, the connections at Nottingham seem entirely reasonable. 17 mins to Birmingham / Cardiff, 22 mins to London.

@LowLevel As someone who work these trains, out of interest, how many people typically connect on the RHL?

I'll do an analysis of the south WCML a bit later or tomorrow, but I've already picked my commuter service to Euston and it's way, way better timed than now! 0656 Bletchley starter - perfect! Edit: and an 0705 too!

Another significant one is the return of a late Saturday Euston departure - 0139 - an hour and a half later than now!

arranged specially!

 

[DelW]

GWR are only able to stable one unit overnight at Redhill presently due to the poor state of Redhill sidings. DfT is not prepared to fund the remedial works there. Hence only one of the former 22.34/23.34 departures from Reading can run.

That doesn't prevent the 22.34 running to Guildford though, and returning empty to Reading, although I recognise that every extra service costs money to provide and the late custom on the line isn't that significant.

To add to the problem, the 23:34 from Reading *used* to connect at Guildford with the last Waterloo to Portsmouth (23:45 from Waterloo). But SWR have cancelled that since Covid, and the now-last 23:30 from Waterloo leaves Guildford before the 23:34 from Reading arrives. The effect of the two cancellations is that the last connection from Reading to points south of Guildford is currently two full hours earlier than it should be.
Of course SWR might reinstate the 23:45, but I'm not optimistic.

 

[Goldfish62]

That doesn't prevent the 22.34 running to Guildford though, and returning empty to Reading, although I recognise that every extra service costs money to provide and the late custom on the line isn't that significant.

Perhaps just run it on Fridays and Saturdays, as SWR do with the 00:20 Waterloo to Reading.

 

[dk1]

Hourly Saltburn to Manchester Airport from December!

Also Hull to Liverpool starts, along with two-hourly Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough or Newcastle.

The bad times will soon be forgotten if they operate reliably.

 

[Bread & cheese]

GWR are only able to stable one unit overnight at Redhill presently due to the poor state of Redhill sidings. DfT is not prepared to fund the remedial works there. Hence only one of the former 22.34/23.34 departures from Reading can run.

And since the 23:34 doesn't call at Wokingham on Fridays and Saturdays, this means that the last Wokingham to Guildford is 21:43 Fridays, 21:42 Saturdays.
Running the 22:34 Fridays and Saturdays only, as has just been suggested above, would help.

 

[Verulamius]

I see that the London Euston to St Albans Abbey no longer runs in the evening. My evening train home from work is 15 mins earlier, now the 18.00 from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey.

 

[87015]

Another significant one is the return of a late Saturday Euston departure - 0139 - an hour and a half later than now!

no there isn’t, that’s Saturday mornings, not Saturday nights.

 

[Bletchleyite]

no there isn’t, that’s Saturday mornings, not Saturday nights.

You're right...oops! Oh well, a bit excited there.

 

[Peter0124]

Looks like Avantis headcodes have changed yet again. The 1Rxx have been reshuffled. 1R20 the 04:28 from Glasgow Central (currently 1R19 for some reason) now becomes 1R22 for example. That'll be something to get learning (niche I know!)

Also I note there's a strange 9F02 06:16 London to Liverpool via Birmingham. Looks like it replaced the 05:27.

 

[ChrisC]

Much of the longer distance traffic generated (mostly from Mansfield and south thereof) is towards Derby, Birmingham, Leicester, London - which has a fairly decent 15/20 minute change now on the XX07 Cross Country for the West Midlands and xx12 towards Leicester and London, and 10-20 ish minutes returning.

Skegness is less time sensitive so they don't seem bothered by the 55 minute wait.

North of Mansfield what little long distance traffic there is tends to be towards Retford for the ECML or Sheffield, all via Worksop.

I agree with London and Birmingham connections being ok. I’m in Birmingham now for a few days and did use the Robin Hood Line to connect at Nottingham. It’s not so good if you need to reach any destinations on the Liverpool to Norwich route, Lincoln, Grantham for ECML connections. Although it connects with the Cross Country train for Derby and Birmingham that then misses the connection to the South West at Derby. Perhaps I’m part of a very small minority of passengers using the Robin Hood Line for these onward connections but having been used to good connections off the missing Mansfield Woodhouse trains for 20+ years I find it very frustrating.

 

[Bald Rick]

I agree with London and Birmingham connections being ok. I’m in Birmingham now for a few days and did use the Robin Hood Line to connect at Nottingham. It’s not so good if you need to reach any destinations on the Liverpool to Norwich route, Lincoln, Grantham for ECML connections. Although it connects with the Cross Country train for Derby and Birmingham that then misses the connection to the South West at Derby. Perhaps I’m part of a very small minority of passengers using the Robin Hood Line for these onward connections but having been used to good connections off the missing Mansfield Woodhouse trains for 20+ years I find it very frustrating.

That’s not quite right. In the standard hour there’s a 27 minute connection into the Northern Leeds service which will take you to Chesy and Sheffield, albeit not Manchester / Liverpool.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Annoyingly (according to RTT), the CrossCountry timetable is still the same bar a few minutes tweaked.

The 09:27 Plymouth - Aberdeen is being truncated at Edinburgh with no replacement ScotRail service*.

This was planned for the December 2017 timetable originally I understand but given high dissatisfaction it remained going to Aberdeen.

Has there been low passenger usage given that after Edinburgh it currently calls at Haymarket, Dundee and Aberdeen?

*https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C72067/2022-12-19

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It still includes a wholesale retiming of services into/out of CHX/CST/STP - that alone will upset some.

SWR were told to park their changes by DfT so why not SE i wonder?

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK, other than my incorrect excitement about an 0139 Euston-MKC on a Saturday (still an 0200 bus unfortunately) here goes.

First reaction is - I like this.

Euston standard hour departures (all day including peaks) are:

xx09/xx39 Harrow, Bushey, Watford Jn, all stations to MKC (this means Cheddington gets 2tph during the day, not 1tph)
xx23/xx56 (Watford - xx23 only), Leighton, Bletchley, MKC, Wolverton, Northampton, stations to Birmingham
xx24/xx54 Tring semifast (not Bushey, Apsley, Kings Langley)
xx46 Crewe via TV, first stop MKC

These seem to be the same all day, plus a few fairly random looking peak extras, including a 1704 Tring semifast, a 1734 Bletchley semifast, a 1720 and 1819 WFJ-MKC-NMP (The Master Cobbler I guess? ), 1806 Bletchley semifast, 1834 Bletchley semifast and so on.

Seems a similar situation in the other direction, with Bletchley getting two fasts all day which is a considerable upgrade, I guess recognising that the station is soon, with EWR, to gain a more important role. The old situation of Tring stoppers starting back from Bletchley in the morning (I like these trains) has remained.

Sundays the pattern is very slightly different but broadly similar in concept:
No Trings
xx21/xx52 all stations to MKC
xx22/xx56 Birmingham semifast
xx45 Crewe via TV

Marston Vale has gone all Takt on me, 0515, 0642 then xx45 until 2045, then 2132. The other way 0615 then xx47 right through the day until a final 2238 (10 minutes later than now). Arrivals at Bletchley xx28, with no change to running times (surprised they didn't increase it a bit to deal with the slow doors so guards can continue to do revenue).

Connections wise the xx28 arrival gives you an xx39 to MKC and xx40 to Euston fast, which is pretty good. Northbound the xx45 departure isn't bad either assuming Bletchley is a standard 5 minutes which it looks like it is from the eNRT: xx31 fast from Euston, xx34 from MKC, xx38 slow from Euston, xx39 fast from Brum.

I think that is all a really neat job and a definite upgrade for Bletchley (particularly the MV, which almost looks like it's had SBB set on it with those nice connections - it basically arrives, then a full cycle, then departs), though I can see that the people of Northampton may like it a bit less, though in the peaks they retain their fasts.

I'll let someone else do Avanti and St Albans, though I can't see any great surprises in there, and I'd not be confident Avanti will be running what they claim by then anyway! One "set down only" at MKC southbound in the peak (I guess they expect that one to be particularly busy - it's the 0721 arrival at MKC from Manchester, with the 0727 from Lancaster just in front) but otherwise it appears Avanti are, unlike VT, happy for the additional commuter revenue.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

SWR were told to park their changes by DfT so why not SE i wonder?

DfT ordered Southeastern to bring forward their timetable change.

 

[TC7]

The Avantis to from Euston to Glasgow via West Midlands seem to be back at long last!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Avantis to from Euston to Glasgow via West Midlands seem to be back at long last!

I wouldn't be confident of Avanti actually running all of what is in the timetable, but it at least shows an intention to bring them back.

 

[ChrisC]

That’s not quite right. In the standard hour there’s a 27 minute connection into the Northern Leeds service which will take you to Chesy and Sheffield, albeit not Manchester / Liverpool.

Lots of examples of good and bad connections can be found. The main thing is that it’s just a shame that EMR have cut the service for a town the size of Mansfield by half, and got away with it, and I very much suspect that the half hourly trains may never return.