December 2021 Timetable change

[DDB]

Worth pointing out that on a Network level, weekend passenger numbers have still not recovered to pre Covid levels. Clearly some routes have - more than recovered in fact - but some haven’t.

How is this being calculated? Is it ticket sales as it feels like there is still less ticket checks than pre pandemic which I assume has an effect on the levels of ticketless travel?

 

[thenorthern]

Has there been any announcement on the service plans for EMR particularly the Crewe to Newark Castle services?

 

[Bald Rick]

How is this being calculated? Is it ticket sales as it feels like there is still less ticket checks than pre pandemic which I assume has an effect on the levels of ticketless travel?

Various sources; ticket sales, on train loadings, station counts, mobile phone data - it’s all consistent.

 

[Horizon22]

I’d say some of our regional routes are more like 110-120%. Never seen trains so busy.

I'd agree. Saturdays are absoutely manic and this is long past the summer period. I've heard some routes are up to 150%

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2021 ==

Great to hear that some routes ‘have more than recovered’ any clues to which routes they are? Is the reason the staycation effect, improved services or introduction of new trains and the scrapping of Pacers for example?

Was discussed a little by myself here, but people now able to get out for the weekend and "get away from their office" (home for many), visit family & friends which they didn't get to do much of past two years and no doubt staycation effect. I think there's some element of people on weekends wanting to ditch cars and planes and be more "green" but that would be purely anecdotal.

The key question is if it is sustained as international travel becomes less restrictive.

 

[Techniquest]

I suspect some leisure travel domestically will drop again soon enough, once the world opens up some more then I would not be surprised to see services to airports get really busy again.

Quite, I have plans to travel into Europe in January, and I'm really excited about that. Possibly not by air, as it will depend where I actually choose to go and what is available when my new passport arrives. From what I hear, France is mostly open to the UK with some minor restrictions and I suspect that is what I will choose. Poland appeals hugely, and that appears to be an option for January for UK residents.

It will be interesting to see what happens in 2022, but I'd not be surprised if there was a resurgence of peak time travel.

As for current leisure numbers, TfW don't have much to worry about off-peak on the Cardiff to Manchester route, that line is busy all day long. I've yet to board a train on that line which isn't busy, with few to no seats spare and full of covidiots, regardless of the day or time.

 

[banjo125]

Until T&Cs are revamped across the industry to make Sat/Suns part of the working week can't see many if any operators being able to enhance there weekend service opportunity. Best that can be done is to strengthen services where practical

I would imagine Saturday is part of the working week at all TOC's, just Sunday's remaining outside at some, however there's possibly fewer willing to work overtime on a Saturday than there is in the week.

 

[dk1]

I would imagine Saturday is part of the working week at all TOC's, just Sunday's remaining outside at some, however there's possibly fewer willing to work overtime on a Saturday than there is in the week.

Exactly that. Unless you want the money, why on earth would anyone volunteer for a late or night turn on a Saturday? Certainly not me.

 

[Horizon22]

I would imagine Saturday is part of the working week at all TOC's, just Sunday's remaining outside at some, however there's possibly fewer willing to work overtime on a Saturday than there is in the week.

Yep. Saturday is suffering more because of a lower percentage of takers for overtime / RDW than on any given weekday, which is hardly surprising.

 

[43055]

Has there been any announcement on the service plans for EMR particularly the Crewe to Newark Castle services?

RTT shows 4 out of the 5 diagrams to run the Crewe service which is an improvement to the current 3 out of 5. Just means a service is missing every 5 hours rather than the current largely 2 hourly service.

 

[LowLevel]

Exactly that. Unless you want the money, why on earth would anyone volunteer for a late or night turn on a Saturday? Certainly not me.

I do quite regularly

I've been a drunken liability many times in my misspent youth and cope pretty well with them all round. You have to be on your toes operationally but I quite enjoy letting my hair down and having a laugh with the piss heads while flogging them group saves.

It does take a very laid back personality though.

 

[dk1]

I do quite regularly

I've been a drunken liability many times in my misspent youth and cope pretty well with them all round. You have to be on your toes operationally but I quite enjoy letting my hair down and having a laugh with the piss heads while flogging them group saves.

It does take a very laid back personality though.

That’s cool if you enjoy it mate. Id rather be a piss head myself on a Saturday night. We work enough antisocial shifts without having to endure more when there’s no need.

 

[LowLevel]

That’s cool if you enjoy it mate. Id rather be a piss head myself on a Saturday night. We work enough antisocial shifts without having to endure more when there’s no need.

I hate drinking on a Saturday night, too many arseholes about nowadays! Sunday to Friday (afternoon) is my preferred tippling time.

 

[dk1]

I hate drinking on a Saturday night, too many arseholes about nowadays! Sunday to Friday (afternoon) is my preferred tippling time.

I’m equally happy in front of Strictly with a couple of bottles of wine. Any night is the weekend when you work shifts though. Quite alright to get blotto on a Monday or Wednesday if they are my days off.

 

[bramling]

I'd agree. Saturdays are absoutely manic and this is long past the summer period. I've heard some routes are up to 150%

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2021 ==



Was discussed a little by myself here, but people now able to get out for the weekend and "get away from their office" (home for many), visit family & friends which they didn't get to do much of past two years and no doubt staycation effect. I think there's some element of people on weekends wanting to ditch cars and planes and be more "green" but that would be purely anecdotal.

The key question is if it is sustained as international travel becomes less restrictive.

It's funny that we hear so much about how Covid has made for a better work/life balance, yet weekends are now so manic (not just the railway) that doing anything can be a quite unpleasant experience.

I don't think it will sustain though, and I'm not sure it's wise to rework the railway around such volatile demand. Really the railway needs to work to attract the commuters / business travellers back. A focus on quality will help.

 

[infobleep]

It's funny that we hear so much about how Covid has made for a better work/life balance, yet weekends are now so manic (not just the railway) that doing anything can be a quite unpleasant experience.

I don't think it will sustain though, and I'm not sure it's wise to rework the railway around such volatile demand. Really the railway needs to work to attract the commuters / business travellers back. A focus on quality will help.

It will be interesting to see what happens in winter. Of course, if it is seasonal demand then it may pick up again next spring with the same issues. Only time will tell.

 

[bramling]

It will be interesting to see what happens in winter. Of course, if it is seasonal demand then it may pick up again next spring with the same issues. Only time will tell.

I suspect the Christmas period will be manic. I hate Christmas at the best of times, so this year I suspect is going to be pretty unbearable!

 

[Ianno87]

I suspect the Christmas period will be manic. I hate Christmas at the best of times, so this year I suspect is going to be pretty unbearable!

I suspect some level of "making up" for last Christmas too!

 

[thenorthern]

RTT shows 4 out of the 5 diagrams to run the Crewe service which is an improvement to the current 3 out of 5. Just means a service is missing every 5 hours rather than the current largely 2 hourly service.

Cheers, it's an improvement the annoying thing is the first arrival at Crewe isn't until 09:04 which is rather late for a morning service.

 

[Goldfish62]

I just don’t understand why so many defend the continuing severe cutbacks XC have made to their network. We seem to be looking at May of next year at the earliest for any resumption of these popular routes.

Having been a member of this esteemed forum for a number of years I have found from experience that there will always be someone out there who is ready to defend the most indefensible.

 

[infobleep]

I suspect the Christmas period will be manic. I hate Christmas at the best of times, so this year I suspect is going to be pretty unbearable!

Good point. Then post Christmas.

 

[brick60000]

They appear to still be running the Newcastle as far as Banbury in some hours at least.

Presume to Banbury to keep New Street platforms clear. What I can't fathom is why they don't even extend these as far as Reading to provide some semblance of a service........

This has more to do with route retention I think - being the only two (and perhaps a few other?) services booked to run via Solihull rather than via Coventry. Whereas pre Covid you’d have all of the Newcastle-Reading service group going that way.

 

[baza585]

This has more to do with route retention I think - being the only two (and perhaps a few other?) services booked to run via Solihull rather than via Coventry. Whereas pre Covid you’d have all of the Newcastle-Reading service group going that way.

I suspected that might be the case. Extending to Reading needs an extra unit but is much more passenger centric.

Seems DfT know the price of everything and the value of nothing.........

 

[Bikeman78]

I suspected that might be the case. Extending to Reading needs an extra unit but is much more passenger centric.

Seems DfT know the price of everything and the value of nothing.........

If crosscountry wants (or is instructed) to carry on with an hourly service on the the two main routes then the least they could do is retime them so they meet at Birmingham New Street. Stick them opposite sides of an island platform and then people can change both ways, opening up more journey opportunities. One problem is that they probably don't have enough units to run hourly through to Plymouth and Bournemouth but still have pairs on everything. Perhaps drop off a set at Reading or Bristol Temple Meads and Reading, although that causes other problems in terms of platforming.

 

[baza585]

If crosscountry wants (or is instructed) to carry on with an hourly service on the the two main routes then the least they could do is retime them so they meet at Birmingham New Street. Stick them opposite sides of an island platform and then people can change both ways, opening up more journey opportunities. One problem is that they probably don't have enough units to run hourly through to Plymouth and Bournemouth but still have pairs on everything. Perhaps drop off a set at Reading or Bristol Temple Meads and Reading, although that causes other problems in terms of platforming.

I suspect the effort in retiming them through New St is considerably greater than running a unit in the scheduled path between Reading and Banbury.

Your suggestion is the right solution but probably fits in the too hard box for DfT.....

 

[The Planner]

If crosscountry wants (or is instructed) to carry on with an hourly service on the the two main routes then the least they could do is retime them so they meet at Birmingham New Street. Stick them opposite sides of an island platform and then people can change both ways, opening up more journey opportunities. One problem is that they probably don't have enough units to run hourly through to Plymouth and Bournemouth but still have pairs on everything. Perhaps drop off a set at Reading or Bristol Temple Meads and Reading, although that causes other problems in terms of platforming.

Which ones don't have connections now? You need 12 minutes for a connection at New St. The northbound Reading/Bournemouth arrives at xx.50 with the SW/NE going at xx.03. The southbound Manchester arrives xx.58 with the NE/SW going at xx.12?

 

[Bikeman78]

Which ones don't have connections now? You need 12 minutes for a connection at New St. The northbound Reading/Bournemouth arrives at xx.50 with the SW/NE going at xx.03. The southbound Manchester arrives xx.58 with the NE/SW going at xx.12?

Right but the connections only work one way. Ideally they should arrive and depart around the same time across an island platform so that interchange is possible in both directions.

 

[The Planner]

Right but the connections only work one way. Ideally they should arrive and depart around the same time across an island platform so that interchange is possible in both directions.

So which journey pairs are you prioritisng there? As I said above the northbound south coast services arrive at xx.50, a NE/SW goes at xx.12. That is a connection. The northbound SW service doesn't connect into a Reading/Bournemouth because it doesn't need to. Cheltenham to Banbury and Oxford is a tiny flow and better served via Didcot and International and Coventry you would change for an Avanti or WMT that does connect? The same applies to the southbound SW services, what journey pairing are you trying to do that doesn't connect into a WMT, TfW or Avanti service?
What you are asking for is for New St to be hamstrung by forcing cross platform connections which can only be done on a limited amount of platforms anyway?

 

[Austriantrain]

If crosscountry wants (or is instructed) to carry on with an hourly service on the the two main routes then the least they could do is retime them so they meet at Birmingham New Street. Stick them opposite sides of an island platform and then people can change both ways, opening up more journey opportunities. One problem is that they probably don't have enough units to run hourly through to Plymouth and Bournemouth but still have pairs on everything. Perhaps drop off a set at Reading or Bristol Temple Meads and Reading, although that causes other problems in terms of platforming.

Would be an interesting timetable crayonista exercise whether with a reduced train frequency, an integrated Takt would be feasible on the often quite restricted British infrastructure. Such a Takt would, up to a point, reduce connection problems with a reduced train service and less direct services.

The downside of course would be that returning to the pre-Covid status quo (if passenger numbers ever recover) would be difficult.

 

[Ianno87]

Right but the connections only work one way. Ideally they should arrive and depart around the same time across an island platform so that interchange is possible in both directions.

The down side of short connections is that some people might actually prefer a longer connection on a long distance journey to have a break/coffee/sandwich/fresh air.

 

[Bikeman78]

So which journey pairs are you prioritisng there? As I said above the northbound south coast services arrive at xx.50, a NE/SW goes at xx.12. That is a connection. The northbound SW service doesn't connect into a Reading/Bournemouth because it doesn't need to. Cheltenham to Banbury and Oxford is a tiny flow and better served via Didcot and International and Coventry you would change for an Avanti or WMT that does connect? The same applies to the southbound SW services, what journey pairing are you trying to do that doesn't connect into a WMT, TfW or Avanti service?
What you are asking for is for New St to be hamstrung by forcing cross platform connections which can only be done on a limited amount of platforms anyway?

Plymouth/Bristol/Cheltenham towards Manchester is currently a poor connection. Likewise coming from Newcastle heading towards Banbury and Reading. Who knows, maybe there is little demand for such journeys.