December 2014 TT changes

[Qwerty133]

From a cursory scan of the EMT Nottingham - London St Pancras timetable, I can't see any journey time improvements on this route. I recall more improvements were expected.

Maybe the improvement will be that the timetable will be reality

 

[maviesk]

List of weekday changes here

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...m dec 2014 wcml peak amendments - summary.pdf

Not insignificant improvements for Northampton commuters?

 

[DarloRich]

List of weekday changes here

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...m dec 2014 wcml peak amendments - summary.pdf

oooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh will we now get direct Marston Vale -Milton Keynes trains. Goes away to look..................... no

Will we even get a decent connection into a northbound/southbound service at Bletchley?

 

[louis97]

On First Great Western, the 07:06 London Paddington to Paignton is diverted to Penzance, and the 07:30 London to Penzance via Bristol runs to Paignton in it's place. There are other tweeks in the South West to improve connections etc.

Generally its to improve the service to/from Devon and Cornwall especially filling in the current gap in London service from Penzance between 1000 and 1400, and also on the Berks and Hants route between Pewsey and Castle Cary to/from London.

In Devon and Cornwall the 1400 from Penzance now starts Plymouth connected into with a unit, with the 1500 from Plymouth starting at Penzance at 1303. This then means the 4 hour gap is reduced to two 3 hour gaps.

Meanwhile on the Berks and Hants the current 1218 Paddington to Taunton will cease to exist replaced with a Turbo to complete the hourly service which currently has 1 HST in its path each way during the day.

As a result of this a new service is created, an 1133 Paddington to Exeter this calling Newbury, Pewsey and Westbury on the route allowing the removal of the Pewsey stop on the 1106 Paddington to Plymouth. This service then forms the current afternoon stopping service from Taunton to Paddington starting at Exeter.

These changes also allow the current 1106 Paignton to Paddington to run later (and therefore being formed from 0730 from Paddington), and as previously mentioned no longer calling at Bedwyn, Hungerford, Thatcham and Theale. (This service would of passed the current 1218 Paddington to Taunton at Bedwyn, to form what will now be the next service for the extra Turbo service)

Note though that these alterations are only on a weekday.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

That removal of the 1400 x PNZ, really p**es me off, because that used to tie in quite nicely with my train home, now it means I have to wait for the 1559, which means I have to change my home station or face a 2hr wait.

 

[louis97]

That removal of the 1400 x PNZ, really p**es me off, because that used to tie in quite nicely with my train home, now it means I have to wait for the 1559, which means I have to change my home station or face a 2hr wait.

Is the unit replacement too early then? It does get a rubbish path through Cornwall.

 

[swt_passenger]

...will we now get direct Marston Vale -Milton Keynes trains.

Dropped from EWR options list between the Grip 2 report (2007) and the Grip 3 report (2008); according to the EWR website. Having re-read them this morning it was only ever one of a few possibilities, never firmed up at all.

 

[DarloRich]

Dropped from EWR options list between the Grip 2 report (2007) and the Grip 3 report (2008); according to the EWR website. Having re-read them this morning it was only ever one of a few possibilities, never firmed up at all.

It is preposterous that there is no service from Bedford to MK. This severely limits usage of the branch line and forces more people into their cars and onto the A421. The bloody X5 is quicker than the train - that can’t be right!

(I am not talking about a curve from the Vale line to the WCML - I am talking about reversing the existing service at Bletchley)

 

[user15681]

Someone asked me in person today, so I thought I'd clarify it here to be clear just in case.

National timetable changeover is 14th December 2014. Southeastern's May 2014 timetable is extended by 1 week instead and the changeover is 20th December 2014. But, the only change in the December 2014 timetable is Sevenoaks services via Thameslink transfer to TSGN. The real timetable change is effectively postponed to 12th January 2015.

Of note though, one change proposed for the 12th January 2015 of stopping HS1 services at Walmer and Martin Mill will be partially introduced next week from 5th October with the introduction of the leaf fall timetable. One morning peak Sandwich to St Pancras and one evening peak St Pancras to Sandwich will stop at the two stations. Will also allow a gauging of ridership, etc.

There'll also be some diagramming and stock changes on some services for January 2015.

 

[Class377/5]

Someone asked me in person today, so I thought I'd clarify it here to be clear just in case.

National timetable changeover is 14th December 2014. Southeastern's May 2014 timetable is extended by 1 week instead and the changeover is 20th December 2014. But, the only change in the December 2014 timetable is Sevenoaks services via Thameslink transfer to TSGN. The real timetable change is effectively postponed to 12th January 2015.

Of note though, one change proposed for the 12th January 2015 of stopping HS1 services at Walmer and Martin Mill will be partially introduced next week from 5th October with the introduction of the leaf fall timetable. One morning peak Sandwich to St Pancras and one evening peak St Pancras to Sandwich will stop at the two stations. Will also allow a gauging of ridership, etc.

There'll also be some diagramming and stock changes on some services for January 2015.

And the reason for delaying TSGN is due to aligning the London Bridge blockage with the major rewrite of Thameslink services/diagrams affecting all of today's Core services.

 

[bnsf734]

It looks like there are some additional London Midland Crewe - Euston Saturday services which should help to alleviate the overcrowding which occurs at the moment.

There is a new 0601 Crewe - Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P32216/2014/12/20/advanced

and another new train, the 0718 Crewe - Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P32217/2014/12/20/advanced

this train only stops at Crewe Stoke & Stafford so there is scope for 8 cars if things get really busy and it relieves the existing 0700 service which continues to serve all intermediate stations.

Looks like day trips to London should get a bit quieter in the up direction.

In the other direction it seems the last down service is still the 1846 Euston - Crewe which only stops at Stafford and Stoke so could possibly be a 8 car set.

 

[nuneatonmark]

It looks like there are some additional London Midland Crewe - Euston Saturday services which should help to alleviate the overcrowding which occurs at the moment.

There is a new 0601 Crewe - Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P32216/2014/12/20/advanced

and another new train, the 0718 Crewe - Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P32217/2014/12/20/advanced

this train only stops at Crewe Stoke & Stafford so there is scope for 8 cars if things get really busy and it relieves the existing 0700 service which continues to serve all intermediate stations.

Looks like day trips to London should get a bit quieter in the up direction.

In the other direction it seems the last down service is still the 1846 Euston - Crewe which only stops at Stafford and Stoke so could possibly be a 8 car set.

I have heard today from London Midland that the 1846 Saturdays will be 8 car from December.

 

[swt_passenger]

In the latest FGW track access application for changes from Dec 14 timetable I noticed this:

Additional calls at Southampton Airport Parkway and Eastleigh in the 19.30 SX Cardiff – Portsmouth service and the 21.24 SX Portsmouth – Westbury service. Both stations added into Additional Stations category in Table 4.1 for EF13.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ber 2014/dec 14 consulted form p 23 09 14.pdf

These are the pair of daily 'route learners' that have previously run via Eastleigh without an advertised call, although people do sometimes blag their way on during the reverse at Eastleigh from what I've seen. Odd though that as well as making the Eastleigh call open to passengers (as that is a standard diversionary call anyway when Southampton is blocked) they've also asked to call at Southampton Parkway.

Some other FGW changes that are already being discussed, such as on the B&H, and the swapping of Paignton and Plymouth services around are also listed, but that one above is one that seems a bit unexpected...

 

[Starmill]

It looks like there are some additional London Midland Crewe - Euston Saturday services which should help to alleviate the overcrowding which occurs at the moment.

There is a new 0601 Crewe - Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P32216/2014/12/20/advanced

and another new train, the 0718 Crewe - Euston

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P32217/2014/12/20/advanced

this train only stops at Crewe Stoke & Stafford so there is scope for 8 cars if things get really busy and it relieves the existing 0700 service which continues to serve all intermediate stations.

Looks like day trips to London should get a bit quieter in the up direction.

In the other direction it seems the last down service is still the 1846 Euston - Crewe which only stops at Stafford and Stoke so could possibly be a 8 car set.

The extra morning service, and specifically starting the service an hour earlier (and offering an arrival 70 minutes earlier from Crewe!) is fantastic news and is going to get LM a little bit of extra revenue from me

HOWEVER. It's s PITA that the last train down is at 1846. It arrives at Crewe at 2122 which is actually not that bad. Why on earth couldn't a 1946 run that arrives at Crewe at 2222? Given how the 1846 loads I just don't get it!

 

[infobleep]

I can't see any improvements happening on the SWT patch.

We've already seen a further degradation of running between Surbiton & Wombledon for 2Gxx & 2Fxx, journey time extended from 6-7', from 7-8' last year, which is ridiculous considering you can do it in 5-6' non stop.

You only need to do 35-38 mph average, down from 45 mph last year, do any more and you'll come to a stand because the wretched 2Hxx & 2Oxx are in the way and are always late.

Sorry for the mini rant.

The one improvement I'd love to see, which may not be possible, is the delaying of the Waterloo to Alton service by 1 extra minute at Aldershot. This is so passengers from Guildford can officially get a faster connection to stations to Alton. I think minute is all that is required as it's a minimum 4 minute connection time.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The one improvement I'd love to see, which may not be possible, is the delaying of the Waterloo to Alton service by 1 extra minute at Aldershot. This is so passengers from Guildford can officially get a faster connection to stations to Alton. I think minute is all that is required as it's a minimum 4 minute connection time.

You would need to start the Guildford - Ascot service a minute earlier from Guildford, that's not possible because the service only has a 5' turnaround time at Guildford & that's wholly inadequate as if it's late in, it's late back out & will almost inevitably miss the connection at Aldershot with the 1Axx, as SWT will have a certain "User Group" on its back! If they're trains are delayed! :roll:

There's already going to be problems over the Ascot route in the next few weeks & months with leaf fall, because if anyone thinks a pair of 456's will manage to traverse the steep banks at Pink's Hill, Camberley & Bagshot when the rails are pitch black & as slippery as ice then they're daft! :roll:

 

[Class 170101]

HOWEVER. It's s PITA that the last train down is at 1846. It arrives at Crewe at 2122 which is actually not that bad. Why on earth couldn't a 1946 run that arrives at Crewe at 2222? Given how the 1846 loads I just don't get it!

Would that be difficult because the two track railway starts at 20:00 between Euston and Hanslope. This train would be right in the middle of it.

 

[infobleep]

You would need to start the Guildford - Ascot service a minute earlier from Guildford, that's not possible because the service only has a 5' turnaround time at Guildford & that's wholly inadequate as if it's late in, it's late back out & will almost inevitably miss the connection at Aldershot with the 1Axx, as SWT will have a certain "User Group" on its back! If they're trains are delayed! :roll:

There's already going to be problems over the Ascot route in the next few weeks & months with leaf fall, because if anyone thinks a pair of 456's will manage to traverse the steep banks at Pink's Hill, Camberley & Bagshot when the rails are pitch black & as slippery as ice then they're daft! :roll:

Can't the Alton service just arrive at the same time as it does now but wait at the station a minute longer. It would then run a minute later through out the rest of its journey. To be fair I don't know the turn around tines at Alton.

As for leaf fall, they allow additional time on the Ascot route. The Reading to Gatwick trains often seem to run late at the moment so may be the leaf fall is already an issue in some parts. Or may be the delays are for other reasons.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

No. Because it can cause difficulties with pathing over the long single line sections between Farnham & Bentley and Bentley to Alton.

What doesn't help is the long running problem of having to use "Power Reduction Mode" between Bentley & Alton, which adds about 2-3' on the journey and it's a lot slower pulling away from both Bentley & Alton. I don't know when or if NR are going to fix the power supply down there.

 

[TEW]

You would need to start the Guildford - Ascot service a minute earlier from Guildford, that's not possible because the service only has a 5' turnaround time at Guildford & that's wholly inadequate as if it's late in, it's late back out & will almost inevitably miss the connection at Aldershot with the 1Axx, as SWT will have a certain "User Group" on its back! If they're trains are delayed! :roll:

There's already going to be problems over the Ascot route in the next few weeks & months with leaf fall, because if anyone thinks a pair of 456's will manage to traverse the steep banks at Pink's Hill, Camberley & Bagshot when the rails are pitch black & as slippery as ice then they're daft! :roll:

May have been workable before the 456s were introduced on to the route. Right time arrivals at Guildford for the ex-Ascot trains is pretty rare nowadays though. It's improved now the speed restrictions have been eased. When the restriction was still in place through Aldershot tunnel nearly every service arrived 3 minutes late at Guildford.

 

[infobleep]

No. Because it can cause difficulties with pathing over the long single line sections between Farnham & Bentley and Bentley to Alton.

What doesn't help is the long running problem of having to use "Power Reduction Mode" between Bentley & Alton, which adds about 2-3' on the journey and it's a lot slower pulling away from both Bentley & Alton. I don't know when or if NR are going to fix the power supply down there.

Oh well that's a shame. The other week someone had to get to Farnham. They followed the advice of National Rail Enquiries Web Site and went to North Camp and walked to Ash Vale. However the signage to get you from one to the other is poor and they got lost.

I left Guildford at 11.25 and got to Farnham at 11.58. They left Guildford at 10.44 and got to Farnham at 11.58.

It would have been better for them to go via Woking but that is not allowed without one buying two tickets.

Yes they could go via Aldershot from Guildford but that journey comes up as the longest. How were they to know it would be possible to make an unofficial connection at Aldershot. They know now after I explained it to them. Bit late by then.

I guess a good solution to this would be to greatly improve the signage at North Camp. There again someone might not want to walk between the two when it's dark. I don't know how well lit it is around there. Never done it myself.

I actually broke the ticket regulations and went via Woking before I knew. This was some years ago, not recently.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You can always use the excuse got on the wrong train, as they leave from adjacent platforms. Besides in times of disruption we send people upto Woking for Aldershot anyway.

The reason behind that is if the problem is between Guildford & Aldershot then that's the best option without resorting to a bus.

 

[infobleep]

It dawned on me. The simply solution is to make the official connection time at Aldershot just 3 minutes. As South West Trains don't pay delay repay, people missing the connection due to the train being late are unlikely to get any compensation. So such a change wouldn't cost them financially I'd have thought.

 

[Starmill]

I think charter compensation would be available if the delay was an hour or more, though in this isolated case even that isn't a likely outcome. It could still generate complaints though if journey planners show it and it is always being missed.

I think allowing travel via Woking is the best solution, and increasing the signage on the North Camp - Ash Vale walk the next best alternative. I visited the Alton line on Saturday, and didn't realise it was single track most of the way from Farnham. Depending on how well Alton, Bentley and Fanham alone (i.e. without the doubtless horde of Woking passengers) redoubling more of Farnham to Bentley could assist with this. Or if you were to take a leaf out of our book here in the north, just reduce calls at Bentley. It looks like it's in the middle of nowhere anyway

 

[infobleep]

I think charter compensation would be available if the delay was an hour or more, though in this isolated case even that isn't a likely outcome. It could still generate complaints though if journey planners show it and it is always being missed.

I think allowing travel via Woking is the best solution, and increasing the signage on the North Camp - Ash Vale walk the next best alternative. I visited the Alton line on Saturday, and didn't realise it was single track most of the way from Farnham. Depending on how well Alton, Bentley and Fanham alone (i.e. without the doubtless horde of Woking passengers) redoubling more of Farnham to Bentley could assist with this. Or if you were to take a leaf out of our book here in the north, just reduce calls at Bentley. It looks like it's in the middle of nowhere anyway

I always find it odd that Alton serviced as a line, especially Bentley when the rest of it closed beyond it.

I find it hard to believe that Bentley was a busy station in the 1960s/early 70s.

 

[swt_passenger]

I always find it odd that Alton serviced as a line, especially Bentley when the rest of it closed beyond it...

Did you mean to write 'survived'? It would seem likely...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I bet that SWT would quite like to get their hands on it as an extra link to Bournemouth & Southampton, however development of the trackbed beyond Alresford & Itchen Abbas precludes this. Thank god!

 

[Bald Rick]

I always find it odd that Alton serviced as a line, especially Bentley when the rest of it closed beyond it.

As per the Beeching report.

 

[Starmill]

It doesn't look like it was a particularly sensible proposition closing it in the first place to me. It's not all that far, and Winchester is a fairly sizeable place.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You have been better off leaving the line over the Hockley viaduct and Winchester Chesil to Didcot open that would have freed up invaluable capacity between Southampton, Basingstoke and Reading as the freight could have been sent that way.

Unfortunately that formation has been almost completely obliterated by the M3 & A34 Newbury bypass.

The route over "The Alps" was only ever a secondary one.