Debranded GWR 387S?

[Mikey C]

With the massive increase in capacity provided with the 345s and 387s when compared to the previous 165s and 166s, I'd be surprised if GWR couldn't cope with losing 3 sets. Southern, for example, would surely benefit from them more.

 

[zwk500]

I don’t know when that’s going to happen, of course it should’ve been done ages ago along with Bristol, Wentloog F.L.T and the Poplar Curve.

Bristol was/is waiting for remodelling (Bristol East jn has been done, not sure if there are works planned elsewhere yet) to avoid doing the job twice. This is also part of the reason for pausing Oxford, it was first paused because of impending re-signalling and now it's waiting for the platform 5 rebuild so that they aren't putting in something that's torn down within 6 months.
Wentloog FLT is only of value if the whole route can run as electric, which isn't the case for e.g. Southampton origin traffic. The Poplars are very fiddly to do and benefit a handful of trains per week unless it goes hand-in-hand with quite a large number of equally fiddly projects at various freight terminals across a significant portion of the network.

 

[gmaguire]

With the massive increase in capacity provided with the 345s and 387s when compared to the previous 165s and 166s, I'd be surprised if GWR couldn't cope with losing 3 sets. Southern, for example, would surely benefit from them more.

Southern does seem like an obvious home for them.

 

[JonathanH]

Southern does seem like an obvious home for them.

The discussion upthread indicates that GTR can't afford to lease them, but three additional units and some rebalancing of diagrams might be enough to see off the remaining 313s, if a business case could be made.

 

[fandroid]

Just electrify the Basingstoke branch. We need something to replace Crosscountry's virtual desertion of the line.

 

[JonathanH]

Just electrify the Basingstoke branch. We need something to replace Crosscountry's virtual desertion of the line.

It would still run 2tph though and it would take some time to plan, fund and carry out the work. In the meantime the three 387s aren't needed and can go off lease.

Interesting question whether the better acceleration of electric stock would enable a 2tph service to be maintained with 2 electric units rather than 3 diesel units, despite the opening of Green Park.

 

[Mikey C]

If the railways could EVER get back to some sort of normality, then it would become clear if Southern really needed extra stock or not. Whatever the treasury or DfT might say, I'm sure angry commuters complaining to their local Tory MPs would have a political impact

 

[RobShipway]

I am sure that the three GWR class 387 units going off lease will end up at Southern. These will I have no doubt work alongside the GatEX units doing coastal such as Ore/Eastbourne - Brighton services. This may also mean that as someone mentioned above, that Southern get rid of the remaining class 313 units which mostly seem to be doing the Seaford - Brighton services.

It will be interesting to see if the class 313 units do get retired, as to whether it is a class 377/3, 377/1/2/4 or a class 387 unit(s) that end up doing the Seaford to Brighton services?

 

[FGW_DID]

Latest update:

Debranded Class 387 387172 / 173 / 174 are now off lease from GWR and should depart Reading TCD for Peterborough on Monday 03/04

Loco Move:

Realtime Trains | 0V74 0641 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 0V74 0641 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Loco & 387s:

Realtime Trains | 5Q45 1123 Reading Traincare Depot to Peterboro Nene C.H.S | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q45 1123 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Peterboro Nene C.H.S on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Class15]

Latest update:

Debranded Class 387 387172 / 173 / 174 are now off lease from GWR and should depart Reading TCD for Peterborough on Monday 03/04

Loco Move:

Realtime Trains | 0V74 0641 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 0V74 0641 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Loco & 387s:

Realtime Trains | 5Q45 1123 Reading Traincare Depot to Peterboro Nene C.H.S | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q45 1123 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Peterboro Nene C.H.S on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Why can’t they run on their own?

 

[fgwrich]

Why can’t they run on their own?

Good luck getting them off the Great Western and up Acton Bank with no OHLE

(Still disappointing that this isn't wired!)

 

[Class15]

Good luck getting them off the Great Western and up Acton Bank with no OHLE

(Still disappointing that this isn't wired!)

Oh yes, forgot about that, it really should be wired.

 

[JonathanH]

Debranded Class 387 387172 / 173 / 174 are now off lease from GWR and should depart Reading TCD for Peterborough on Monday 03/04

I assume that the fact that they are going to Peterborough and not Long Marston indicates that Porterbrook are hopeful of some further use for these units. I imagine that Nene sidings have space for unit storage, since the 365 cull.

 

[fgwrich]

I assume that the fact that they are going to Peterborough and not Long Marston indicates that Porterbrook are hopeful of some further use for these units. I imagine that Nene sidings have space for unit storage, since the 365 cull.

Hopefully so, though I still find it crazy that GWR will lose these 3 (limiting potential further expansion when the wires go up - eventually!), to GTR, while we have 30 379s sat in storage doing nothing while arguments continue over their leasing costs. But sadly it epitomises the state of the railways we're now in. And some people want to give more control to the DfT.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Why are GWR transferring 3 Class 387's when they can quite easily run 12 coaches???

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Considering the fact that the DFT and Mark Harper are a complete joke. What else did you expect?

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Does this change things for the possible use of 387s to Cardiff? Surely they'd have been of huge use for Millennium stadium events, or is the remaining fleet enough to cover either/both of the above?

Surely three would have been enough to perhaps extend Didcots to Swindon? Especially on Sunday evenings

Such modern units off lease is disappointing, can they be easily converted to match any other electrostars? Might help with future use of such a small number

 

[JonathanH]

Does this change things for the possible use of 387s to Cardiff? Surely they'd have been of huge use for Millennium stadium events, or is the remaining fleet enough to cover either/both of the above?

The loss of three units does not change the scope for use of 387s to Cardiff in connection with Millennium stadium events. There has never been any likelihood that 387s were going to be the main traction for normal Cardiff services.

Once the May timetable kicks in, GWR won't be any units down in any case, because the London to Didcot cycles will be quicker, and there won't be any relief line peak extras to Slough / Maidenhead to resource.

 

[RailWonderer]

…If they wanted to.

If.

But we have to deal with the reality that we’ve gone from having several TOCs competing with each other for a finite number of units to a new world where the Government are a monopoly with no need to pay over the odds to lease anything* (the kind of new world that people used to argue for)

If you can operate the GWR services with thirty EMUs then why pay a ROSCO for ten percent, if that’s just a “nice to have”?

* - Similarly, the TOCs used to have to offer decent pay rises to stay competitive with each other (and stop their staff being poached), but now the Government has no need to push the boat out - be careful what you wish for

Exactly. Another thing was then ROCSOs were overcharging to competing TOCs for rolling stock people were saying nationalisation would drive profiteering down - in theory yes but in practice the government can refuse to pay even a reasonable lease because they aren't a TOC that wants to keep a franchise because the govt is the ultimate franchise as the OLR in all cases where it doesn't need to care for the consequences for scrimping, and no scrutiny. When NX failed, we got GA and LNER (after East Coast and VTEC). When the OLR under delivers - suck it up everyone.

Governments are unfit to do most things but we have no choice but to let them because only government have deep enough pockets to run major infrastructure projects like the railways.

 

[JonathanH]

Why are GWR transferring 3 Class 387's when they can quite easily run 12 coaches???

GN needs them apparently. As I noted above, GWR require fewer 387s from May anyway because of the changes to the Didcot services. There will still be some 12-car services.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

GN needs them apparently. As I noted above, GWR require fewer 387s from May anyway because of the changes to the Didcot services. There will still be some 12-car services.

Oh of course, yes. Sorry - I get frustrated when capacity gets lost just to provide someone else with more that's all.

Makes perfect sense, thank you !

 

[Jason48]

Is there any reason why 387 172/173/174 have all the GWR logos and wording removed off them? Are they being sneaked off elsewhere on the quiet in a similar way the Castle's are quietly being axed.

Going off lease as DaFT have told them they got too many units

 

[swt_passenger]

Going off lease as DaFT have told them they got too many units

That tender for a possible 387 fleet replacement was published quite a while back, and it effectively gave advance warning that a fleet size of 30 units was adequate…

 

[RobShipway]

Hopefully so, though I still find it crazy that GWR will lose these 3 (limiting potential further expansion when the wires go up - eventually!), to GTR, while we have 30 379s sat in storage doing nothing while arguments continue over their leasing costs. But sadly it epitomises the state of the railways we're now in. And some people want to give more control to the DfT.

But as has been said a few times, if the leasing costs for the class 379 units where able to match those of the class 387, then it would be better for GWR to be using the class 379 units with the class 387 units going to GTR as is happening with 387 172/173/174.

 

[D365]

But as has been said a few times, if the leasing costs for the class 379 units where able to match those of the class 387, then it would be better for GWR to be using the class 379 units with the class 387 units going to GTR as is happening with 387 172/173/174.

Replacing the entire GWR fleet is irrelevant to this thread, though.

 

[3RDGEN]

It's mentioned in the May Timetable thread that GN are to operate more 387's vice 700's so presumable the three units are to cover that increase.

 

[RobShipway]

.

 

[bramling]

It's mentioned in the May Timetable thread that GN are to operate more 387's vice 700's so presumable the three units are to cover that increase.

I’m not sure as I seem to remember the GN service can be resourced from the existing 35 units. Having 700s on some of the remaining peak Peterborough services helps, especially as one 700/1 essentially frees up three 387s.

 

[JonathanH]

I’m not sure as I seem to remember the GN service can be resourced from the existing 35 units. Having 700s on some of the remaining peak Peterborough services helps, especially as one 700/1 essentially frees up three 387s.

It is suggested elsewhere that the GN is three units down at present - one was taken away for ETCS fitment and there is an ongoing programme of Aurora modifications and overhauls taking one unit out at a time for each.

 

[Class 170101]

Perhaps I'm being thick but aren't GWR also short of / going to be short of units due to Hitachi units going to Eastleigh (or elsewhere) for cracking repairs and the Class 387s to Cardiff would cover for this?