Death Penalty Debate

[newbie babs]

One of the new e-petition schemes asked the question about the Death Penalty before the horrific Act in Norway.

The e – petition scheme is an initiative that lets the public help set the government agenda, if the poll gets more than 100,000 votes then MP`s must consider debating it in Parliament.

MP`s might be preparing for a Commons Debate later this year on Capital Punishment this first since 1998. A recent e- poll showed that 53% backed its reintroduction, 34% did not want its reintroduction.

You had the chance to vote which method you preferred and the one chosen was Lethal Injection.
60% of men wanted the Death Penalty compared to 44% of women who wanted the Death Penalty.

Has our opinions changed due to the changing society ?

Would you want the death penalty back and if so by what means ?

Those given in the e-poll were;
Lethal Injection, Hanging, Electric Chair, Firing Squad or Gas Chamber

 

[strange6]

One of the new e-petition schemes asked the question about the Death Penalty before the horrific Act in Norway.

The e – petition scheme is an initiative that lets the public help set the government agenda, if the poll gets more than 100,000 votes then MP's must consider debating it in Parliament.

MP's might be preparing for a Commons Debate later this year on Capital Punishment this first since 1998. A recent e- poll showed that 53% backed its reintroduction, 34% did not want its reintroduction.

You had the chance to vote which method you preferred and the one chosen was Lethal Injection.
60% of men wanted the Death Penalty compared to 44% of women who wanted the Death Penalty.

Has our opinions changed due to the changing society ?

Would you want the death penalty back and if so by what means ?

Those given in the e-poll were;
Lethal Injection, Hanging, Electric Chair, Firing Squad or Gas Chamber

It doesn't matter what the public think because the politicians just do not listen. If you want the death penalty back then you'll have to pull out of the EU (of which we have NEVER had a vote on membership apart from in the 70's when it was a common market - a totally separate entity altogether) and we all know that will never happen

 

[thefab444]

Besides, just because a majority of the public wants something that doesn't necessarily mean it is the right thing to do. We have a representative democracy in this country, not delegative.

 

[newbie babs]

Strange6 and thefab444 do you both vote may I ask

 

[Minilad]

Besides, just because a majority of the public wants something that doesn't necessarily mean it is the right thing to do. We have a representative democracy in this country, not delegative.

But coming from the other angle.
Just because politicians don't want it it doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do

 

[thefab444]

Strange6 and thefab444 do you both vote may I ask

Yes.

The only way I would support the death penalty would be to use it on proven serial offenders, those for whom prison is not working and when released will simply offend again. I'd prefer much tougher, including life, prison sentences though.

 

[newbie babs]

well in that case it would mean quite a few in prison would get a lethal injection.
How many come out and commit a crime again repeatedly.

Since 1998 when the last debate took place how many rapists, murders, pedophiles to name a few have been released and committed a crime again.
Or would you let them have another go at being a reformed character

And where do you draw the line, those that nick cars repeatedly how would you deal with them ?

 

[passmore]

It doesn't matter what the public think because the politicians just do not listen. If you want the death penalty back then you'll have to pull out of the EU (of which we have NEVER had a vote on membership apart from in the 70's when it was a common market - a totally separate entity altogether) and we all know that will never happen

Completely agree with you, strange6.

Whilst membership in the EU does have few merits, the current legislation makes bringing back the death penalty impossible.

The only realistic thing we can hope for is a good, sound debate by the government. We do, after all, live in a democracy.

 

[SS4]

I can see all the MPs not wanting to bring it back. The Tories will blame the EU and the previous government, Lib Dems will toe the party line and Labour will blame the Tories - such is the joy of partisan politics :roll:

I would like to see religious extremists and terrorists (often interchangeable!) put to death since they're very unlikely to repent or feel any kind of remorse.
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For one or two people at a time the firing squad and especially the gas chamber are too inefficient.

 

[Hydro]

I'd rather see harsher prisons, hard labour and "life meaning life" sentences. "No, we won't execute you, but you'll wish we had".

Judging on a case by case basis, the appropriate level of punishment ought to be meted out. 17 year old kid, in with the wrong crowd, steals a car, caught with a bit of weed on him, first offence. Keep him away from the career offenders, rehabilitate in a detention centre.

Serial sex-murder offender? Papillon-style solitary confinement for the rest of their natural life.

There obviously ought to be a middle point, of course. Hard labour, strict sentencing, prisons where you have no privileges at all.
Just my two pence.

 

[strange6]

Yes, I do vote (UKIP)

And I agree with Hydro to some extent. Life should mean life and they earn their keep by doing some kind of hard work that benefits you and me. Road repairing, house building etc for, perhaps, an extra muffin in the morning or a slice of victoria sponge after their bread and water at night.

 

[Aictos]

I would like to see religious extremists and terrorists (often interchangeable!) put to death since they're very unlikely to repent or feel any kind of remorse.

Can't do that, you're abusing their Human Rights :roll:

In all fairness, I can't understand why the UK hosts such religious extremists by allowing them free reign to peddle their offensive chatter, the UK should be allowed to deport any person/s who present a danger to the UK for example Abu Hamza al-Masri ought to have been deported years ago but the European Court of Human Rights as always takes the sides of these who don't deserve their backing.

 

[HST Power]

I passionately support the death penalty, but before Ministers debate capital punishment, they've got to debate EU Membership, the Geneva Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty, as they completely bind us from introducing corporal punishment for any criminal offenders. And of course, if we were to introduce the death penalty, it would create an enormous storm in Europe. The rights courts would be out to lynch us, and you'd get thousands of activists running up the streets shouting 'these criminals have rights! these criminals have rights!'

Personally, I believe that criminals can take their bloody rights and sh........

 

[Oswyntail]

No civilised country can justify the death penalty. If we give up hope of a perpetrator reforming for one crime, then why not for all? The thought of taking anyone's life on my behalf sickens me, and stinks of primitive retribution, not justice. Bringing the EU into things is totally irrelevant, and seems to be an attempt to get the anti-EU sympathies. And as for a majority wanting the penalty, that too is surely utter bosh - I would say only a small handful of anyone I have met supports it. It is not a deterrent, either. There is legitimate research that shows that, in cases where it would make a difference (ie not "crimes of passion") it actually increases the likelihood of the crime. The bigger deterrent is the probability of being caught.

 

[ainsworth74]

perhaps, an extra muffin in the morning or a slice of victoria sponge after their bread and water at night.

So are you trying to kill them via such diseases as scurvy or just downright starvation after all you're making them do hard labour they need energy to do that don't they (something which bread alone won't provide enough of)?

Personally I agree with Hydro sentences should be tougher (life means life and all that). But equally I also agree that there needs to be some thought about what we're doing as Hydro points out is it a good idea to imprison a 17 year old with the rest of the career criminals or put them in a detention center to try and rehabilitate them?

But as HST Power points out there are other things that need to be debated before capital punishment (and some things that need to have referendums held on).

Also just so it's clear I do not support the death penalty and would vote no on referendum.

 

[strange6]

So are you trying to kill them via such diseases as scurvy or just downright starvation after all you're making them do hard labour they need energy to do that don't they (something which bread alone won't provide enough of)?

They can get most of their nutrients and energy from the bread and the sweet porridge / orange juice they would get in the morning. They survived on that many decades ago with hard work. People are no different today

 

[ainsworth74]

They can get most of their nutrients and energy from the bread and the sweet porridge / orange juice they would get in the morning. They survived on that many decades ago with hard work. People are no different today

Indeed they did but that was different time, I would never support a penal system that only fed it inmates bread for their main meal. I don't see any issue with coming up with a normal meal that provides what they need (no need to vary the menu just one square evening meal along with that porridge in the morning and lunch of some sort) after all you want them working long and hard don't you? Best way to do that is too make sure they're fit and healthy.

 

[Hydro]

I wouldn't put prisoners in charge of any building projects, nor anything that will take skill or precision in it's undertaking. Conscripted labour does not make for the professional finish, much like conscription does not make for the professional soldier. Breaking old sleepers by hand in Whitemoor yard is more what I envisaged.

 

[SS4]

They can get most of their nutrients and energy from the bread and the sweet porridge / orange juice they would get in the morning. They survived on that many decades ago with hard work. People are no different today

They did, but I wonder exactly how many died on the job. The problem with making them do work is that they need more supervision which in turn means more prison guards which in turn means public sector job creation at a time of huge cuts.
I wonder exactly who would provide water to prisoners working out on the road in the middle of summer?
That's not to say your idea is a bad one, I would like them to serve some economic benefit and, as we've seen in the USA not only is it costly but it's terribly unfair to keep a person in limbo for decades.

 

[exile]

It's not unknown for people to be fitted up by the police or others, or to be the victim of mistaken identity. If this means they go to prison - they're still alive, and can be compensated if the miscarriage of justice comes to light. If they've been executed, this isn't possible.

 

[newbie babs]

exile, I don't mean to be funny but which murder or pedophile lately has been fitted up by the police

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Miscarriages of justice is a massive reason why the death penalty should not be used. Stephen Ksizko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4 and Angela Cannings. All very recent miscarriages. I have no doubt that if the death penalty were available then all would have been executed for their supposed crimes. In fact, I believe one of the last people to be hanged in this country had to be given a posthumous pardon.

No, I do not support the death penalty. A civilised country does not use killing as a form of justice. Petty retribution is not the way forward.

Other posters have echoed how I feel. Especially Hydro, who I broadly agree with. Education should be mandatory for all prisoners. Academic education to get them to GCSE level. Vocational training to teach them a trade if they do not already have one. If someone does not fufill those requirements, then they should work whilst in prison (not necessarily manual labour) unless medically exempt.

 

[Greenback]

I broadly agree that executions have no place in a civilised society. The problem is that the rehabilitation approach does not seem to work either.

There are career criminals. Some seem to prefer a life inside punctuated by spells of freedom during which they commit further crimes and wait to get caught.

The problems society faces run deeper than the death penalty question.

 

[newbie babs]

ralphchadkirk

I don`t suppose you have thought past those you have mention, like the two that murdered in cold blood Jamie Bulger, did helping them with education etc help them adjust from being murders.
These people are the ones that should be given the death penalty.

If we lived in a perfect world then perhaps people in prison would not be in there because they would not commit crimes .

Do you not think then that committing a crime should be punished in any way, and please don`t say prison is their punishment because what you want to give them they may as well be on a holiday,

 

[SS4]

Other posters have echoed how I feel. Especially Hydro, who I broadly agree with. Education should be mandatory for all prisoners. Academic education to get them to GCSE level. Vocational training to teach them a trade if they do not already have one. If someone does not fufill those requirements, then they should work whilst in prison (not necessarily manual labour) unless medically exempt.

They'd get better support than a sizeable amount of today's young people!

ralphchadkirk...
don`t say prison is their punishment because what you want to give them they may as well be on a holiday,

Where did he/she say that?

 

[GB]

ralphchadkirk

I don't suppose you have thought past those you have mention, like the two that murdered in cold blood Jamie Bulger, did helping them with education etc help them adjust from being murders.
These people are the ones that should be given the death penalty.

If we lived in a perfect world then perhaps people in prison would not be in there because they would not commit crimes .

Do you not think then that committing a crime should be punished in any way, and please don't say prison is their punishment because what you want to give them they may as well be on a holiday,

Death penalty or not, it doesn't change the awful crime they commited.

Edit: ...and are you seriously suggesting it is right to execute two 10 year old children!?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

me should be punished in any way, and please don't say prison is their punishment because what you want to give them they may as well be on a holiday,

How ridiculous. Of course, the last holiday I went to was an imposing high security building. As part of the package we were all searched many time during the stay. Once a week the cells were ripped apart to look for contraband. On this holiday, to get to anywhere you had to be accompanied and taken through many locked doors. Whatsmore, on this holiday you were all locked up for 23 hours a day. Of course it's not like a holiday. :roll:

Speaking of the people who killed James (which actually was his real name, not "Jamie" which the media gave to him) Bulger, rehabilitation actually did work for one of them.

 

[SS4]

Ultimately we can never have the death penalty until trial by media is exterminated once and for all. Ralph's point about one of Bulger's killers being successfully rehabilitated is a good one but one completely discarded by the media

 

[newbie babs]

But the awful crimes are being committed more often because those that do it, smile at the authority because they know in prison its an easier life and they will be talked about in the media for years to come and then they can be let and they can do it again.
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How do you know he was successfully rehabilitated

 

[WestCoast]

Death penalty or not, it doesn't change the awful crime they commited.

It was a truly horrific case, one that everyone clearly remembers. If their (new) names ever became public, they would have a mob attack them very soon.

I and many others believe that justice was not carried out in that case.

I wouldn't have had the death penalty enforced, just a far, far longer sentence in a real prison once they reached adulthood.

Fair enough one of them has been rehabilitated, but that shouldn't detract too much from the heinous crime.