Day return to Blackpool

[wilbers]

As I've discovered that a simple day return from Penrith to Blackpool (North or South) isn't an option with one ticket, but requires a split at either Preston or Kirkham I was wondering why more touristy destinations don't have longer distance day returns than some other places?

In a similar vein as I was curious, I tried a few other random places to see how far away from Blackpool day returns are offered. Out of those York seemed to be the furthest.

 

[Llandudno]

Nottingham to Llandudno via Chester - off peak day returns available

Chester to Llandudno - No day returns available

 

[PMH]

Nottingham to Llandudno via Chester - off peak day returns available

Chester to Llandudno - No day returns available

On a slightly related note Crewe-Llandudno advance singles are £10, changing at Chester, while an advance single to Chester on the same train is £14.

I'm new here and entirely ignorant, so can't begin to work out the logic behind that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Chorley -> Edinburgh. Off Peak Day Return available.

Chorley -> Moston. No through Day Return fares showing as available.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'm new here and entirely ignorant, so can't begin to work out the logic behind that.

There's not a lot of logic involved in the ticketing system, it has to be said.

Chiltern, for example, sell Super Off-Peak Returns from London to Banbury for the same price as London to Birmingham and London to Kidderminster.

 

[Starmill]

I'm new here and entirely ignorant, so can't begin to work out the logic behind that.

There is no logic behind it. It's just a case of what type of fare the operator wants.

For example, Off Peak Day Returns are available from Newark to London, from Dover to London, and Banbury to Bournemouth. But they aren't available from Huddersfield to Manchester, Derby to Birmingham or Swindon to Reading, which are all only half an hour on a non-stop service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2022 ==

On a slightly related note Crewe-Llandudno advance singles are £10, changing at Chester, while an advance single to Chester on the same train is £14.

It's worth noting that the Crewe to Chester ticket is probably not an Advance.

 

[Kite159]

Salisbury to Cardiff, only ticket available is an Anytime Return. No day return fares or even a cheaper Off-peak return.

I know it's roughly 2 hours in each direction but logical for someone to have a day-trip to see the Welsh Capital

 

[Mcr Warrior]

For example, Off Peak Day Returns are available from Newark to London, from Dover to London, and Banbury to Bournemouth. But they aren't available from Huddersfield to Manchester, Derby to Birmingham or Swindon to Reading, which are all only half an hour on a non-stop service.

Actually, there are Off Peak Day Return fares from Huddersfield to Manchester.

However, these are routed "via Hebden Bridge" which effectively precludes using them on the non-stop service.

 

[Starmill]

Actually, there are Off Peak Day Return fares from Huddersfield to Manchester.

Not, as specified "on a non-stop service".

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not, as specified "on a non-stop service".

No, indeed, but the CDR fare is nevertheless available, although it does take ages via Hebden Bridge!

 

[PMH]

There is no logic behind it. It's just a case of what type of fare the operator wants.

For example, Off Peak Day Returns are available from Newark to London, from Dover to London, and Banbury to Bournemouth. But they aren't available from Huddersfield to Manchester, Derby to Birmingham or Swindon to Reading, which are all only half an hour on a non-stop service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2022 ==


It's worth noting that the Crewe to Chester ticket is probably not an Advance.

Completely new to all this, so don't understand the distinctions between fares, and the Llandudno fare jumped out as being so cheap.

Is there a way of finding similar anomalies, or is it just a case of trial and error?

I've moved near Crewe/Stoke/Congleton and am looking to plan some trips out of any of those stations. Suspect I've been paying over the odds for years.

 

[Starmill]

Completely new to all this, so don't understand the distinctions between fares, and the Llandudno fare jumped out as being so cheap.

Not to worry, we're here to give what guidance we can!

It's worth noting carefully what the ticket name is. An 'advance' ticket always restricts breaks of journey, meaning that an advance ticket from Crewe to Llandudno cannot be used to travel to Chester (unless you were to go to Llandudno and then return to Chester, using a separate ticket from Llandudno to Chester, of course).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2022 ==

Is there a way of finding similar anomalies, or is it just a case of trial and error?

In general it is just about knowing where to look. Services such as trainsplit may be of interest to you though - try new.trainsplit.com.

 

[Llandudno]

Completely new to all this, so don't understand the distinctions between fares, and the Llandudno fare jumped out as being so cheap.

Is there a way of finding similar anomalies, or is it just a case of trial and error?

I've moved near Crewe/Stoke/Congleton and am looking to plan some trips out of any of those stations. Suspect I've been paying over the odds for years.

Howabout an off peak day return Congleton to Macclesfield £5.80 and then use a Peak Wayfarer ticket £15.20, visit all of Greater Manchester plus Hope Valley line to Grindleford and parts of Lancashire, virtually all trains, trams and buses.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Approximate hourly daytime 58 bus service from Macclesfield to Buxton could be of use for a Wayfarer ticket holder and quite a scenic journey in its own right.

 

[JonathanH]

For example, Off Peak Day Returns are available from Newark to London, from Dover to London, and Banbury to Bournemouth. But they aren't available from Huddersfield to Manchester, Derby to Birmingham or Swindon to Reading

That is just a British Rail legacy. Network South East had day returns between all its stations. Intercity didn't.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Fairly sure there was an Off Peak Day Return (route Any Permitted) ticket between Huddersfield and Manchester, until just a few years ago (as well as the more restrictive but still available route Hebden Bridge variant mentioned upthread).

 

[Watershed]

That is just a British Rail legacy. Network South East had day returns between all its stations. Intercity didn't.

I'd be interested to know when Newark became part of the Network area?

But regardless, @Starmill aptly illustrates that the availability of cheaper day tickets has little to do with whether a journey is feasible to do in a day, and far more to do with the pricing policy of the fare setter concerned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2022 ==

Fairly sure there was an Off Peak Day Return (route Any Permitted) ticket between Huddersfield and Manchester, until just a few years ago (as well as the more restrictive but still available route Hebden Bridge variant mentioned upthread).

Indeed. It was withdrawn for a while, but there is once again an Off-Peak Day Return from Leeds to Manchester - albeit it presents a very limited saving compared to the ("regulated") Off-Peak Return.

 

[Starmill]

That is just a British Rail legacy. Network South East had day returns between all its stations. Intercity didn't.

I'm afraid that's incorrect. As has been pointed out above by Watershed London to Newark is a former 'intercity' fare. Lots of 'intercity' fares actually were the old cheap day returns. Furthermore the removal of the Off Peak Day Return between Derby and Birmingham is a recent thing - it still existed in 2018.

It is however true that nearly all journeys for Network South East only would have had a cheap day return. However there were some gray areas even there.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm afraid that's incorrect.

The bit about Network South East having off-peak day returns for all their flows is correct. I agree that you picked some examples that were outside the south east where there is less consistency. In the south east, the inconsistency is more around which routes have period returns, and the differential between day and period returns.

 

[Starmill]

The bit about Network South East having off-peak day returns for all their flows is correct.

It was correct once, however there were grey areas even there. For example at the origination of sectorisation, before the name NSE was even thought up, Yeovil - Exeter wasn't included. This meant that some journeys from, for example Axminster, didn't have cheap day returns to everywhere else when the NSE brand was launched and the Network Railcard extended to Exeter.

Nowadays it is even more of a mess, SWR recently converted all of their Super Off Peak Day Returns into period returns, except for the very shortest journeys which got the ridiculous evening tickets instead, for example.

 

[Hadders]

Completely new to all this, so don't understand the distinctions between fares, and the Llandudno fare jumped out as being so cheap.

Is there a way of finding similar anomalies, or is it just a case of trial and error?

I've moved near Crewe/Stoke/Congleton and am looking to plan some trips out of any of those stations. Suspect I've been paying over the odds for years.

There are lots of anomalies and good value fares but this forum is monitored by the train companies and mentioning an anomaly on here is a good way to get it withdrawn.

The forum runs fares workshops and forum meals where these sort of things are often discussed.

Fares workshops

If there is sufficient interest, I will hold another of our free fares workshops this autumn. If anyone would like to join us, please reply to this thread. I'm open to suggestions on where we could hold it; please state in your reply what locations you could reach. We could cover any areas...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've moved near Crewe/Stoke/Congleton and am looking to plan some trips out of any of those stations. Suspect I've been paying over the odds for years.

I spent many years living in Brindley Ford. It's virtually always cheaper to split at Stafford if heading to Birmingham or beyond. Street parking at Longport is easy and cheap. Congleton isn't too dear for parking but can get full.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That is just a British Rail legacy. Network South East had day returns between all its stations. Intercity didn't.

I am always impressed by the Preston-Glasgow/Edinburgh day return (£43.90, after 0930).
Especially as the Edinburgh fare is valid via Glasgow, so you can fit in both cities and any route between them.
There's an even cheaper TPE-only version (£40.20).

 

[unlevel42]

Approximate hourly daytime 58 bus service from Macclesfield to Buxton could be of use for a Wayfarer ticket holder and quite a scenic journey in its own right.

Do not be confused by the two Wayfarers available:
The cheaper Derbyshire Wayfarer (£13.40, £6.70 for over 60's) is valid on the:
58 bus from Macclesfield to Buxton(Sun: Bakewell and Chatsworth)
the 60 bus to New Mills Newtown(Buxton trains) and Central(Sheffield Hope Valley).
also buses to Leek, Ashbourne, Uttoxeter, Burton and East Midlands Airport.
Train destinations (from 09.00)include Sheffield, Chesterfield, Derby, Ilkeston, Matlock, Burton, Uttoxeter(not via Stoke unless you pay extra)and Long Eaton.

 

[30907]

As I've discovered that a simple day return from Penrith to Blackpool (North or South) isn't an option with one ticket,

It is, you simply use an Offpeak Return. The same is true of many journeys (short or long) where fares are set by what used to be InterCity operators.

but requires a split at either Preston or Kirkham

...which is cheaper, because Avanti offer an offpeak day return which is time-restricted but significantly cheaper than their no-restrictions single fare.
Whether it is coincidence that TPE offer even cheaper fares restricted to their own trains I leave you to judge.

In a similar vein as I was curious, I tried a few other random places to see how far away from Blackpool day returns are offered. Out of those York seemed to be the furthest.

...which I would guess is set by Northern who are not a descendant of Inter City.

 

[miklcct]

It is however true that nearly all journeys for Network South East only would have had a cheap day return.

There isn't off-peak day return between Bournemouth - London. There is anytime day return and off-peak return. It's much cheaper to split at Basingstoke such that the whole journey is all done on day returns but it can only be done on Sundays because on weekdays not all trains call at Basingstoke.

 

[PMH]

There's not a lot of logic involved in the ticketing system, it has to be said.

Chiltern, for example, sell Super Off-Peak Returns from London to Banbury for the same price as London to Birmingham and London to Kidderminster.

Cheers, will just try trial and error and see where it gets me (Llandudno at this rate)

There is no logic behind it. It's just a case of what type of fare the operator wants.

For example, Off Peak Day Returns are available from Newark to London, from Dover to London, and Banbury to Bournemouth. But they aren't available from Huddersfield to Manchester, Derby to Birmingham or Swindon to Reading, which are all only half an hour on a non-stop service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2022 ==


It's worth noting that the Crewe to Chester ticket is probably not an Advance.

Not to worry, we're here to give what guidance we can!

It's worth noting carefully what the ticket name is. An 'advance' ticket always restricts breaks of journey, meaning that an advance ticket from Crewe to Llandudno cannot be used to travel to Chester (unless you were to go to Llandudno and then return to Chester, using a separate ticket from Llandudno to Chester, of course).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2022 ==


In general it is just about knowing where to look. Services such as trainsplit may be of interest to you though - try new.trainsplit.com.

Cheers, will have a look.

Howabout an off peak day return Congleton to Macclesfield £5.80 and then use a Peak Wayfarer ticket £15.20, visit all of Greater Manchester plus Hope Valley line to Grindleford and parts of Lancashire, virtually all trains, trams and buses.

That's absolutely ideal, thanks, and I'd just drive to Macc in that instance. That's my next day out sorted I think.

Approximate hourly daytime 58 bus service from Macclesfield to Buxton could be of use for a Wayfarer ticket holder and quite a scenic journey in its own right.

Handy to know, though I'd likely drive to Buxton and leave the car there.

There are lots of anomalies and good value fares but this forum is monitored by the train companies and mentioning an anomaly on here is a good way to get it withdrawn.

The forum runs fares workshops and forum meals where these sort of things are often discussed.

Fares workshops

If there is sufficient interest, I will hold another of our free fares workshops this autumn. If anyone would like to join us, please reply to this thread. I'm open to suggestions on where we could hold it; please state in your reply what locations you could reach. We could cover any areas...

www.railforums.co.uk

Great stuff, thanks.

I spent many years living in Brindley Ford. It's virtually always cheaper to split at Stafford if heading to Birmingham or beyond. Street parking at Longport is easy and cheap. Congleton isn't too dear for parking but can get full.

Thanks, and free parking is always on my list of things to recommend a station. I've found free street at Stoke (a faff, but just about worth the hassle), Macc, Crewe and Buxton. Liked that at Congleton parking could've extended on the app.

Do not be confused by the two Wayfarers available:
The cheaper Derbyshire Wayfarer (£13.40, £6.70 for over 60's) is valid on the:
58 bus from Macclesfield to Buxton(Sun: Bakewell and Chatsworth)
the 60 bus to New Mills Newtown(Buxton trains) and Central(Sheffield Hope Valley).
also buses to Leek, Ashbourne, Uttoxeter, Burton and East Midlands Airport.
Train destinations (from 09.00)include Sheffield, Chesterfield, Derby, Ilkeston, Matlock, Burton, Uttoxeter(not via Stoke unless you pay extra)and Long Eaton.

Cheers, will keep an eye out for that.

 

[blakey1152]

I recently did a split from Manchester Picc to Edinburgh. I discovered that a TPE Ticket from Manchester to Edinburgh was considerably more expensive than getting 2 off peak day returns from Manc Pic to Preston and Preston to Edinburgh because there is no off peak day return available for the whole journey!

Despite the fact that it was the same train both ways... I felt sorry for anyone who ended up doing that journey on an off peak return without knowing...

 

[Watershed]

I recently did a split from Manchester Picc to Edinburgh. I discovered that a TPE Ticket from Manchester to Edinburgh was considerably more expensive than getting 2 off peak day returns from Manc Pic to Preston and Preston to Edinburgh because there is no off peak day return available for the whole journey!

Despite the fact that it was the same train both ways... I felt sorry for anyone who ended up doing that journey on an off peak return without knowing...

To be fair it has to be a somewhat unlikely set of circumstances where you're doing a day trip between the two stations, given the journey time of over 3 hours. Though I admit it's not totally implausible. Even Preston to Edinburgh as a day return is pushing it, and it's very unusual amongst long distance IC flows to have a CDR.

 

[blakey1152]

To be fair it has to be a somewhat unlikely set of circumstances where you're doing a day trip between the two stations, given the journey time of over 3 hours. Though I admit it's not totally implausible. Even Preston to Edinburgh as a day return is pushing it, and it's very unusual amongst long distance IC flows to have a CDR.

It was a long day! But still got five hours in Edinburgh