Darlington - Hartlepool Extended

[OMGitsDAVE]

I've only ever seen one, and that was a few years ago working to Nunthorpe (from Hexham)

Pretty rare indeed.

 

[142094]

Cheers for clarifying; I was most confused to find one at Hexham!

I bet the people at Hexham were as well! Most likely answer is that is has come off the Leeds train at Carlisle for some reason. I'll have to see if it is still around Newcastle when I get back at the weekend.

 

[tbtc]

I bet the people at Hexham were as well! Most likely answer is that is has come off the Leeds train at Carlisle for some reason. I'll have to see if it is still around Newcastle when I get back at the weekend.

Ah; I didn't think of it being from a Settle working!

I only got one picture (longer distance than I'd have liked) as I had baggage with me, so couldn't wait until it arrived until I put my camera away, but proof is here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/5259026290/

 

[DarloRich]

What's the reason (s) for disliking it?

I thought it was just a more frequent Saltburn - Darlo service (four/ hour?), at least in the short term? Or are there more "ambitious" plans too (for "stage two" etc)?

The aims of pahse one are laudable ( better hevey rail service) but pahse 2 is for tram trains which is a no-no as far as i am concerned. Details here: http://www.teesvalleyunlimited.gov.uk/transport/documents/TV_Metro_Ph1_Summary_July_2010.pdf

The new platforms at Darlington don’t really stop the conflicting movements, unless through Boro-Bishop services are cut back to Bish-Darlo/ Darlo-Boro. (if that is the case i would rebuild the north facing bay platform and prevent Bishop trains using platforms1/4) The new platforms will be along way from the main station and really out on a limb and care will be needed to ensure that they feel "as one" with the rest of the station. (I can envisage two soulless bays in the middle of what is now a car park. It is at least a five minute walk from there over the Durex ribbed bridge to the main station while the Central Park/University Campus will be 15-20 minutes away on foot only IF they open up the rear access.

I cant see many of the new stations being built. Morton Palms will not be built unless more housing is built in the area as at present it is in the middle of nowhere and would realistically only serve Whessoe. Orange/Cummins people wont walk that far and most will drive to work anyway.

Teesside Airport doesn’t need a new station, it has one. Do it up a bit, put on a bus, advertise it........... oh and get some trains to stop there! The new station is constantly said to be closer to the airport? Is it any closer other than in a straight line. You are still going to need a bus link. They also say it is closer to the airport than stations to Leeds/Bradford and Humberside Airports. Well doh. Guiesly or Horsforth are miles form the Airport while Barnetby is a fair hike form Humberside. The line passes the bottom of the runway at Teesside and the station should be open.

Teesside Park station would be nowhere near the site. You would have to cross the A66 and all the access roads. Just put a bus on from Thornaby which would be about as close as any new station could be!

Middlehaven is a sensible suggestion as it would serve the (somewhat delayed!) development around the Super Cellnet Riverside Stadium :roll::roll: ( and some areas of the Boro that could do with redevelopment. However, is an option not to revamp and reopen the old Cargo Fleet Station ( I would also do Grange Town as well)

Wilton is also a sensible idea because British Steel Redcar is never going to be used in any numbers and a station for Wilton might generate decent flows of people into Boro. I don’t know anything about the Ings other than it is supposed to serve a new housing development.

James Cook is also sensible as that hospital site is massive and will only get bigger. It would also serve a large part of Middlesbrough that is without decent transport links, again much of this area is "socially deprived"

The proposed improvements to existing stations are VERY welcome and reopening the Darlo facing bay at Middlesbrough would be helpful and better facilities and staff at Eaglescliffe would make it a more attractive station, particularly for GC passengers. Hopefully attracting more Middlesbrough –London traffic

Also the proposals to use 156 units is welcome as they would see the end of the Pacer units (god willing! ) They are of a higher quality and will offer a better "journey experiance" to passengers.

I would prefer to see a scaled back project with emphasis on developing the existing services and stations to offer a better service to passengers. I think there is scope for a few new stations to enhance services and attract new passengers perhaps also helping to regenerate some of the most deprived areas of the North East.

 

[sprinterguy]

One of the plans was to replace the 142s with 'newer' trains. Newer being 156s. Doubt this region will see any new stock, it will all be stuff cascaded from elsewhere. Think I remember 170s was supposed to come after the 156s.

The ECML RUS suggests introducing just three 3 carriage Turbostars on the Durham Coast to help relieve overcrowding. It makes you wonder just how long the 142s and 156s are expected to soldier on in service in the north east: Surely there'll have to be a fleet of new trains eventually. Can't really complain though, I like 142s and 156s.

Replacing 142s on Darlington to Saltburn services with 156s seems much more realistic in the short to medium term. I imagine that this improvement would be off the back of the North West electrification replacing Pacers and Sprinters in the Manchester and Liverpool area: Heaton would probably get back the 156s that went to Newton Heath a couple of years ago. The displaced Pacers could either be used strengthening Middlesborough-Hexham trains to a pair of units, or be withdrawn as life expired.

Saying that, 144s do come up for maintenance at Heaton (but never seen them used on passenger services).

144015 made it to Sunderland in 2001. I’ve never worked out whether it was running a test run from Heaton and back or was actually in passenger service.

 

[142094]

Can't really complain though, I like 142s and 156s.

Same here (with enthusiast hat on), but ideally we would have Sprinters on all routes by now (or at least something to replace Pacers, it will be a long time in the future before the NE gets anything new out of the box).

Replacing 142s on Darlington to Saltburn services with 156s seems much more realistic in the short to medium term. I imagine that this improvement would be off the back of the North West electrification replacing Pacers and Sprinters in the Manchester and Liverpool area: Heaton would probably get back the 156s that went to Newton Heath a couple of years ago. The displaced Pacers could either be used strengthening Middlesborough-Hexham trains to a pair of units, or be withdrawn as life expired.

Would be a simple way of providing more seats, just double up the Pacers on some routes. Probably all we are realistically going to get in the next 5-10 years.

144015 made it to Sunderland in 2001. I’ve never worked out whether it was running a test run from Heaton and back or was actually in passenger service.

There is the odd picture of a 144 at Central that has come up from Leeds for maintenance, the route has to be signed from Central to Heaton by a Newcastle driver AIUI. Would be nice to see them working the odd passenger service - make things a bit more interesting.

 

[DarloRich]

We could always have the 143's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[142094]

That would do me fine.

 

[sprinterguy]

Same here (with enthusiast hat on), but ideally we would have Sprinters on all routes by now (or at least something to replace Pacers, it will be a long time in the future before the NE gets anything new out of the box).

Would be a simple way of providing more seats, just double up the Pacers on some routes. Probably all we are realistically going to get in the next 5-10 years.

There is the odd picture of a 144 at Central that has come up from Leeds for maintenance, the route has to be signed from Central to Heaton by a Newcastle driver AIUI. Would be nice to see them working the odd passenger service - make things a bit more interesting.

Yeah, Heaton had a regular line of work carrying out some sort of maintenance or modification to the 144s during 2003: I’ve never found out exactly what work is done to the 144s at Heaton, I would have assumed that Neville Hill has similar capabilities to Heaton. The 144s had a weekly southbound path back to Leeds from Heaton that passed through Central at about half 9 on a Saturday morning; I’ve got quite a few photos, of varying quality, of them passing through. They went up to Heaton on an afternoon during the week.

I can still remember being gobsmacked at seeing 144015 in Sunderland: With the 144s most definitely being West and South Yorkshire operated/funded units, it’s no surprise that they rarely escape their home territory.

I wouldn’t complain with a few doubled up 142 diagrams in the north east for the next 5-10 years if more 156s were forthcoming for Tees Valley services; any capacity increase would be welcome around the Durham Coast and Tyne Valley. I can foresee that eventually, Northerns’ 150s will become more widespread around its’ network: I’d imagine that the 150s are the natural replacement, for the time being, for the Pacer operated services.
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We could always have the 143's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah yes, that would bring back some old memories. An extra 25 trains in the Northern franchise would be most welcome.

 

[DarloRich]

i think the 143's are the worst of the lot - but that is all we will get in the NE. If that means longer/better/faster/stronger services than so be it- individual pain for the greater good!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Does anyone actually know when these 3(?) Turbo's are meant to be added to the Durham Coast Line?

 

[sprinterguy]

Does anyone actually know when these 3(?) Turbo's are meant to be added to the Durham Coast Line?

It's not definite, just an aspiration in the latest ECML draft Route utilisation strategy, which I assume covers the 2014-2019 CP5 Period.

 

[142094]

Does anyone actually know when these 3(?) Turbo's are meant to be added to the Durham Coast Line?

Probably never....

 

[tbtc]

Does anyone actually know when these 3(?) Turbo's are meant to be added to the Durham Coast Line?

Dunno Dave, sorry.

Three additional units could be enough to double the Durham Coast frequency to half hourly (approx 90 minutes journey time, though more needed to layover), but I've not seen any plans on whether this is the plan.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I think Turbostar's would be great to extend a half-hourly service at least between Nunthorpe and Hartlepool (Bay Platform) - which would then ease the Tees Metro to allow say a James Cook Hospital station to be built, and Teesside Park - then easing its way up.

At current, services leave Boro at 00.32 every hour, so at 00.02 (Turbo) and 00.32 (142/156), arriving into Hartlepool approximately 31 minutes later would be good (Based on current timetables, obviously extended when stations along the line would open)

 

[Tomnick]

Not sure how robust a 30-minute frequency throughout the day would be between Nunthorpe and Middlesbrough! It'd certainly leave little or no scope for Whitby services additional to a regular 30-minute service.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Not sure how robust a 30-minute frequency throughout the day would be between Nunthorpe and Middlesbrough! It'd certainly leave little or no scope for Whitby services additional to a regular 30-minute service.

I was thinking of making the Turbo's hourly to Nunthorpe, and terminating all Hexham/Newcastle trains short at Middlesbrough. So Nunthorpe gets direct services to Hartlepool as now, more frequently.

So:
Newcastle - Hartlepool - Middlesbrough
Hartlepool - Middlesbrough - Nunthorpe

Whitby trains wouldn't be affected.

 

[dickdarlington]

No demand for such regularity between Whibty and Boro. Low population. Bus is significantly quicker. Lengthy waiting times at passing points. I would however, agree that a more frequent service has potential. About every 3.5hours presently (90 mins journey time from Boro to Whitby) The train supports the community in its current form. School kids, commuters (though most go by car), shoppers. The rest is made up of tourists. I would suggest that in the summer, an additional 3 services each way would be viable. Two in the morning from Boro to Whitby (and it returning back). And Two in the evening from Whitby back to Boro (and it returning back). An extra unit would do the job.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I wasn't on about the Whitby line, that would continue as it does now.
I was on about the Hartlepool - Nunthorpe stretch, haha!

 

[142094]

Whitby stll gets the summer Sunday train all the way from Newcastle, although in reality all it is is the joining of the normal Newcastle - Boro and Boro - Whitby service. Would be good to see maybe one or two more services per day to/from Whitby just to make the gaps a bit less. Could do a run through on a 153, just something to fill the gap.

 

[dickdarlington]

Just re read it. Got carried away about a line I actually knew quite a bit about. LOL.

Not sure if the direct link for Hartlepool and Nunthorpe is needed? Patterns show that most from Nunthorpe leave the train at Boro, and to a much lesser extent Thornaby. Much the same as the Darlington - Saltburn service.

 

[tbtc]

A shame in a way that the Bishop Auckland line couldn't be given over to the operators of the Weardale railway.

1. The Bishop Auckland service splitting off would allow the Darlo - Saltburn to be improved independantly
2. It'd allow the towns further up the Wear valley a direct service to the ECML
3. The potential for the NYRM to get involved?

/pie-in-the-sky

 

[142094]

A shame in a way that the Bishop Auckland line couldn't be given over to the operators of the Weardale railway.

1. The Bishop Auckland service splitting off would allow the Darlo - Saltburn to be improved independantly
2. It'd allow the towns further up the Wear valley a direct service to the ECML
3. The potential for the NYRM to get involved?

/pie-in-the-sky

Think if this wee to happen it would almost certainly need the north bay at Darlo reopened, or the use of the new through platforms if they come to fruition. Not sure if the Weardale Railway would be able to get running rights over the line, or if Northern (or whoever gets the franchise) would want to let the revenue go. Would be good if they could do something in addition to the Northern service.

 

[tbtc]

Think if this wee to happen it would almost certainly need the north bay at Darlo reopened, or the use of the new through platforms if they come to fruition. Not sure if the Weardale Railway would be able to get running rights over the line, or if Northern (or whoever gets the franchise) would want to let the revenue go. Would be good if they could do something in addition to the Northern service.

It'd definitely be good news if they could do something like this, and the North Bay would good (though looking at Google Maps, wouldn't they need to sacrifice part of the car park)?

If its not profitable to run to Bish, maybe Northern would be glad to "lose" it?

Could fit in nicely to Cameron's "Big Society" with volunteers replacing trained professionals ... (removes tongue from cheek)

 

[DarloRich]

Dont know why the north facing bay was ever closed. The new platforms wont help IF through Boro-Bishop trains continue to run. There is still a conflicting movement, just at Parkgate not South Junction.

 

[ainsworth74]

If its not profitable to run to Bish, maybe Northern would be glad to "lose" it?

That's what I was thinking, at best it breaks even surely rather than actually making money? In which case I would have thought that Northern would have been happy to lose it?

 

[142094]

It'd definitely be good news if they could do something like this, and the North Bay would good (though looking at Google Maps, wouldn't they need to sacrifice part of the car park)?

Indeed it would, although it is about time we sacrificed car parks for tracks, instead of the other way around. There is quite a lot of land over to the north side of the line running out of platform 4 which could be used as a car park instead.

 

[dickdarlington]

Ever since they opened the Weardale, I've said that they should push to extend their service. At least to Shildon to tap into the locomotion tourism. And as far as Darlington would be a nice bonus, but I can't see Northern giving up the Bish line because they get subsidised for the number of services they run don't they?

With D'ton's car parks. I think reinstating the North bay would work. Over the bridge is a massive car park, and it wouldn't cost a fortune to multi it (like as supermarkets are doing)

Finances will restrict this, but there will be plenty of room north or Darlington station to build a flyover from the Bish line to any new platforms on the eastern side of the avoiding lines.

One thing that I am confused about. Are the avoiding lines going to remain? If so, the proposed new platforms will be a long long way from the main station. Plus, what would happen with the southern facing terminating platforms?

 

[142094]

Not sure if Durham County Council funds the Bishop Auckland line, might do but I've never heard of it being subsidised. Have to do a bit more looking into it.

As far as I can see the new platforms would be built where the avoiding lines are now, so in effect they'd just be through platforms. Not sure how they plan on linking them to the rest of the station, perhaps using a footbridge at the north end?

Don't see any point in removing the southern bays, would always come in handy for something.

 

[dickdarlington]

By having the avoiders as the platforms, then you'd solve nothing by building them. The Darlo-Saltburn trains would still venture onto the ECML