Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[47802]

Excuse my ignorance - but how does one know which services in the timetable are (expected to be) loco hauled?

Many thanks

Just look for the ones that are running late

To be fair the 17-37 off Carlisle is running about 10 late, the 17-31 off Barrow which was 42 mins late yesterday is now reported right time at Bootle, has that one substituted with a unit

 

[Cheds]

Just look for the ones that are running late

To be fair the 17-37 off Carlisle is running about 10 late, the 17-31 off Barrow which was 42 mins late yesterday is now reported right time at Bootle, has that one substituted with a unit

Sorry, what I meant was - if I wanted to travel on a loco hauled train on the route, how do I know which they are in the timetable?

Thanks again!

 

[47802]

Sorry, what I meant was - if I wanted to travel on a loco hauled train on the route, how do I know which they are in the timetable?

Thanks again!

You don't really there is nothing to particularly identify them, I believe they are slower timed, but the diagrams are listed further back on this thread

 

[crehld]

Sorry, what I meant was - if I wanted to travel on a loco hauled train on the route, how do I know which they are in the timetable?

Thanks again!

Head to the frequently requested diagrams thread! http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478563&postcount=12

 

[Cheds]

Got it now -thank you all

 

[Wearhead]

Having spent most of today on the loco-hauled services around the Cumbrian coast (yes, I know), it seems that the Class 37’s are not the real problem.

Overnight, DRS has installed automatic selective door operation to this service, in the form of two young men in DRS hi-viz vests, who run up and down the train opening and closing doors for the hapless passengers, while the conductor announces in no uncertain terms which three (or two) coaches will fit on the next platform. Simple and effective, but not cheap, and not a long-term solution.

Even the experienced traveller will struggle with opening the doors; by the time you have put your arm through the iron bars, pulled down the window, found the unseen door handle on the outside, you still have to wait (as I found out) for the soft click of the door release (no indicator lights here) before the door will open. Not a good passenger experience.

On one afternoon service ex Carlisle we were joined by a Northern manager, complete with suit and name-tag, making a total (including drivers) of six staff to run a four coach train. Well done to Northern for stepping up to the task, but I hope no-one reading this has shares in DRS, Serco or Abellio, it must be costing them a small fortune. On the plus side, timings for the daytime services were vastly improved on yesterday, most of them coming in within five minutes or so of the WTT, although early evening services seem to be struggling a little.

IMHO the DRS sets are the WRONG TRAIN for an 85 mile branch line with 24 intermediate stops (26 on the last train) and variable length platforms. Other wiser heads on this Forum can give chapter and verse about how we ended up here, I am certainly not blaming Northern who took on a “no growth” franchise and have made a decent fist of it. The brutal truth is that the railway as a whole has lacked a long-term strategic plan since privatisation, free enterprise has not delivered adequate solutions, and so we end up with this sticking-plaster service, hoping that something better will turn up soon. Any news on the D78’s .......?

 

[yorksrob]

Even the experienced traveller will struggle with opening the doors; by the time you have put your arm through the iron bars, pulled down the window, found the unseen door handle on the outside, you still have to wait (as I found out) for the soft click of the door release (no indicator lights here) before the door will open. Not a good passenger experience.

Oh please, Mk 2's might not be ideal, but they are a far better passenger experience than a short distance unit on a long distance journey.

A stop gap it may be, but not a bad one. And with all of those stops, end vestibules are going to be preferable to saloon doors, particularly in winter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

IMHO the DRS sets are the WRONG TRAIN for an 85 mile branch line with 24 intermediate stops (26 on the last train) and variable length platforms.

I agree. The line is suited well to 153s and 156s in various quantities. If Northern wanted to use LHCS, it would have been better off poshing up some express services somewhere, perhaps under the forthcoming "Northern Regional" brand or something. Or perhaps even TPE should be using them instead rather than borrowing Northern's 156s. I think they would be very popular for the Barrow expresses, for instance.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh please, Mk 2's might not be ideal, but they are a far better passenger experience than a short distance unit on a long distance journey.

It isn't any more a long distance journey than Liverpool to Norwich is, it's a long regional stopping service where almost nobody makes the whole journey - indeed for a not unfair chunk of the journey it's sometimes quicker to head back to the WCML if you want to go to Lancaster/Barrow/Carlisle from the other end. It is only operated as a single through service for operational convenience.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Even the experienced traveller will struggle with opening the doors; by the time you have put your arm through the iron bars, pulled down the window, found the unseen door handle on the outside, you still have to wait (as I found out) for the soft click of the door release (no indicator lights here) before the door will open.

They're ex-VT sets, aren't they? If so, I think they do have indicator lights, both the "It's fruitless if it's not orange" outside hazard lights (anyone remember that promo when CDL was first fitted in the 1990s?), and small "DOOR UNLOCKED" lights above the door inside. Unless they've been stupid and painted over it, in which case that's, well, stupid.

 

[Whistler40145]

Instead of FTPE using Northern's 156s, why couldn't they use the 37s+LCHS?

 

[yorksrob]

It isn't any more a long distance journey than Liverpool to Norwich is, it's a long regional stopping service where almost nobody makes the whole journey - indeed for a not unfair chunk of the journey it's sometimes quicker to head back to the WCML if you want to go to Lancaster/Barrow/Carlisle from the other end. It is only operated as a single through service for operational convenience.

Well, no, I travel on the route fairly regularly between Carnforth and Whitehaven and it is a long journey to me. 156's are wonderful, and 153's fine, so long as it's not raining and there are two of them, but the danger with people banging on about doors is that Northern might take it to heart and put on something genuinely unsuitable.

Liverpool - Norwich, to my knowledge, gets 3 carriage 158's, not pacers and single 153's.

 

[al.currie93]

I'm liking the use of such stock... but this route is better for medium distance units (156), and I agree about the Settle and Carlisle route, and the TPE at that!

Instead of FTPE using Northern's 156s, why couldn't they use the 37s+LCHS?

Possibly because there is no strategic plan at all these days? A mixmatch of businessman and DaFT making the decisions :P I agree with you!

 

[Kite159]

I would have thought a better place for the LHCS would have been on the S&C, the promotion group would love a 'proper' train on their line rather than 158s.

Liverpool to Norwich is normally 2x 158s from Liverpool to Nottingham, with a single set afterwards.

 

[PHILIPE]

I would have thought a better place for the LHCS would have been on the S&C, the promotion group would love a 'proper' train on their line rather than 158s.

Liverpool to Norwich is normally 2x 158s from Liverpool to Nottingham, with a single set afterwards.

Already been discussed on the thread.

 

[Whistler40145]

How about turning the LCHS out on Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe services instead?

 

[Kite159]

Already been discussed on the thread.

Just adding my view on the matter

Unless that is a crime these days...

The response for Liverpool Norwich was in response to Yorksrob post @ 20:48

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Overnight, DRS has installed automatic selective door operation to this service, in the form of two young men in DRS hi-viz vests, who run up and down the train opening and closing doors for the hapless passengers, while the conductor announces in no uncertain terms which three (or two) coaches will fit on the next platform. Simple and effective, but not cheap, and not a long-term solution.

Given the numbers of enthusiasts keen to ride these trains, perhaps the two DRS men could be replaced by enthusiast volunteers in return for free travel up and down the coast all day? Obviously not replacing the guard, just opening and closing doors and offering general assistance to the public?

 

[bb21]

Just adding my view on the matter

Unless that is a crime these days...

The response for Liverpool Norwich was in response to Yorksrob post @ 20:48

Some epic misunderstanding in the thread by the looks of it.

I think his comment about things already being discussed earlier in the thread refers to the idea of using LHCS on the S&C instead.

 

[Class 170101]

The guard is still responsible for the safe operation of the doors. They are likely to be more comfortable with mangers who are likely be safety critically trained than enthausists.

 

[Kite159]

Some epic misunderstanding in the thread by the looks of it.

I think his comment about things already being discussed earlier in the thread refers to the idea of using LHCS on the S&C instead.

Which I think would have been a lot more sensible than sending the LHCS down the coast, like other posters have said before.

 

[Whistler40145]

Cumbrian Coast is the nearest line to DRSs Kingmoor base, so if anything goes wrong, it can be rectified easily, but so is the S&C or Tyne Valley.

 

[TOCDriver]

Given the numbers of enthusiasts keen to ride these trains, perhaps the two DRS men could be replaced by enthusiast volunteers in return for free travel up and down the coast all day? Obviously not replacing the guard, just opening and closing doors and offering general assistance to the public?

Insurance for one thing. Also, they would have to be formally trained

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Or perhaps even TPE should be using them instead rather than borrowing Northern's 156s. I think they would be very popular for the Barrow expresses, for instance.....

TPE are borrowing six class 156 units at any one time, two loco hauled sets wouldn't be able to cover the same services.

 

[Grumpy]

Apologies for the slight thread drift but I am thinking of catching the 0938 Carlisle to Lancaster on Saturday-the first train up from Skipton just misses the loco hauled departure.
I should be very grateful if anyone in the know would advise what stock forms the 0938. If it's a Pacer we might think of doing something else.

 

[signallerman]

Its a 156

 

[Starmill]

Well, no, I travel on the route fairly regularly between Carnforth and Whitehaven and it is a long journey to me. 156's are wonderful, and 153's fine, so long as it's not raining and there are two of them, but the danger with people banging on about doors is that Northern might take it to heart and put on something genuinely unsuitable.

Liverpool - Norwich, to my knowledge, gets 3 carriage 158's, not pacers and single 153's.

With the greatest respect, Carnforth to Whitahaven is quicker via Carlisle, upon which route you may avail yourself of an intercity train. You're free to take the route you do from West Yorkshire to Whitehaven via Skipton and Barrow, but that are very much the 'local' (and slow) option for that journey I'm afraid!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TPE are borrowing six class 156 units at any one time, two loco hauled sets wouldn't be able to cover the same services.

No, but would three sets? A lot of empty running though if they'regoing to be based in Carlisle...

 

[37038]

409 ran to KM today and is acting as standby. 419 is due to come off the train at some point for a B Exam

 

[yorksrob]

With the greatest respect, Carnforth to Whitahaven is quicker via Carlisle, upon which route you may avail yourself of an intercity train. You're free to take the route you do from West Yorkshire to Whitehaven via Skipton and Barrow, but that are very much the 'local' (and slow) option for that journey I'm afraid!

I'm afraid that without the benefit of a railcard, I can't afford to go gallivanting up and down the WCML, and I don't have three months in advance in which to book it.

Also, my origin is always Leeds, so my practical journey options tend to be via Appleby and Carlisle or via barrow.

Appleby doesn't really allow long enough in the day, so Barrow tends to be the primary option.

 

[Grumpy]

Its a 156

Thanks for that. We'll give it a try.

 

[47802]

Which I think would have been a lot more sensible than sending the LHCS down the coast, like other posters have said before.

While the S&C might have some advantages, you wouldn't need window bars and all the stations can cope with 4 coaches, a 4 car S&C workings would be a capacity reduction on a 4 car Loco Hauled and DRS clearly have an interest in running the Loco Hauled on the Cumbrian Coast rather than the S&C for fairly obvious reasons.

I imagine these problems will disappear once passengers get used to the doors, and losing the extra 100 tons on the back will help.

 

[37038]

423-609 Set 1 working ex Barrow this morning
419-409 Set 2 working ex Carlisle this morning