Cross Country Voyagers Vs Virgin Voyagers

[The Ham]

Because by the time train extensions were mooted XC was already haemorrhaging money.

Although if they could have had longer trains they may have managed to not have been losing quite so much. As although they would have higher lease costs and high track access charges, the number of passengers would have also been higher. However with many fixed costs (i.e. head office, number of divers, etc.) not changing with longer trains the cost per passenger should (if it worked well) have gone down, resulting in the subsidy potential not being much different from what it was for very long with good chance that over time it could have dropped.
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Because it would appear to be DFT Policy to provide not quite enough seat for the expected number of pax 10 years ago, never mind now! A policy which is now being reused with the new IEP Order!

IEP on East coast is resulting in an increase in the number of seats as a full 9 coach set of IEP will have 627 seats compared with the approximately 550 seats of the IC225's (a 14% increase), without the need for extra paths.

Although this is no where near the projected passenger number for 10 years time (where these could have increased by 28%) there is still the possibility that some of the IC 225's could be retained on the ECML to cater for this growth (subject to available paths).

In fact the only way to cater for such growth would be to undertake infrastructure improvements to enable more trains to be run.

 

[D6975]

Yes, there is to much first in the 7 car units but that is down to the operator not the trains.

It's actually down to the refusal of the planned extra Leeds services.
Meridians were built as 7 x 9 and 16 x 4 car sets, the 9s were supposed to be for the enhanced Leeds service and had a reasonable 1st/2nd ratio. The change of plan (the Leeds became the fast Sheffield) forced upon EMT led to a rethink and subsequent rearrangement of the sets resulting in the 7 car sets having too much first class.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's actually down to the refusal of the planned extra Leeds services.
Meridians were built as 7 x 9 and 16 x 4 car sets, the 9s were supposed to be for the enhanced Leeds service and had a reasonable 1st/2nd ratio. The change of plan (the Leeds became the fast Sheffield) forced upon EMT led to a rethink and subsequent rearrangement of the sets resulting in the 7 car sets having too much first class.

I would argue it is down to EMT.

They could've changed some 1st cars into std cars when they did their interior refurb from the original MML/HT spec.

They chose not to.

 

[ainsworth74]

Do they? The train remains the ROSCOs and the ROSCO might not be keen on changing the interior of their train at least not during the current lease period. XC for instance have only been able to remove the buffets from their 22xs as long as they return them to original condition once the lease ends (same goes for the tilt systems). So the question I would ask is did EMT want to change the interior and were blocked by the ROSCO or not?

 

[387star]

Does anyone Like the CrossCountry Voyagers at all?

I went From Glasgow Central to Warrington Bank Quay on a Virgin Voyager, which was quite good, no common voyager complaints.

I was on a CrossCountry from Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke-on-Trent on Friday and by Macclesfield I was ready to get off. It smelt of toilet, it was horrendously overcrowded and CrossCountry Voyagers don't have shops meaning there was a big empty space!

ugh that waft of sewage flowing out before you board and you know you are in for a nice journey also great new (virgin) seat covers but the seats themselves on XC are looking very battered
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Voyagers don't have any of the smaller toilets with manual doors, only the large disabled ones: It's one of the criticisms regularly levelled against them!

must be too expensive to rip out the toilets as even when they did the cough refurb cough it wasn't done

Please remind me how Crosscountry increased luggage space... the removal of the shop and placement of the trolley area in the former stowage area is common knowledge

but am I right tables were removed and luggage stacks at the mid way point were removed with stacks only at the ends of the coaches.. plus bigger ones at that. Interestingly leg room can vary on the XC trains with some seats at the end of the coach having much more leg room. Some tables are centered right next to a pillar which is odd
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Virgin's are a joy... frequent litter picls mean the trains are always tidy, lovely low capacity comfy standard coach... make that two such coaches on one unit...
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The 'big empty space' is definitely needed. You can barely fit anything in the overhead racks, there's not a great deal of space under the seats because of a silly bar under them, and then the normal luggage racks aren't exactly ample. Having been on a Voyager from Bristol-Manchester full of students going home for Christmas it was more than clear these new racks are needed!

yeah what is that bar for??? tried putting my leg on it but seems to be at the wrong angle??
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How is it 222s have less luggage space on the overhead racks than voyagers?

 

[1e10]

Interestingly leg room can vary on the XC trains with some seats at the end of the coach having much more leg room.

These are priority seats.

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/61862/voyager_seat_plan.pdf

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/customer-service/travel-assistance/priority-seating

 

[387star]

Surprised how much leg room pendo table seats have surely more than voyagers
If meridians have a non tilt profile why less overhead space

 

[ainsworth74]

If meridians have a non tilt profile why less overhead space

They don't have a non-tilt profile, they share a body shell with 220s/221s and as far as I'm aware they do have more overhead space as some equipment was moved from overhead to underneath the vehicle.

 

[HSTEd]

I believe that the savings ascribed to the lack of tilt capability in the design related to the fact that various pieces of gear were apparently moved into the space where the tilt equipment was on the Class 221s.

Why they didn't do this on the 220s is beyond me.... perhaps to make maintenance on the two fleets as similar as possible?

 

[bb21]

Some tables are centered right next to a pillar which is odd
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Virgin's are a joy...

You can blame that one on Virgin.

 

[387star]

They don't have a non-tilt profile, they share a body shell with 220s/221s and as far as I'm aware they do have more overhead space as some equipment was moved from overhead to underneath the vehicle.

But don't tilt? Only in britain

 

[DarloRich]

All voyagers are horrific - the virgin ones are just a touch less horrific than the XC ones whilst the EMT ones are a touch less horrific than both Virgin and XC.

In honesty they are all awful trains to spend any time on and are a disgrace on long distance services.

 

[387star]

All voyagers are horrific - the virgin ones are just a touch less horrific than the XC ones whilst the EMT ones are a touch less horrific than both Virgin and XC.

In honesty they are all awful trains to spend any time on and are a disgrace on long distance services.

The low density VT coach D was perfect

 

[Qwerty133]

All voyagers are horrific - the virgin ones are just a touch less horrific than the XC ones whilst the EMT ones are a touch less horrific than both Virgin and XC.

In honesty they are all awful trains to spend any time on and are a disgrace on long distance services.

Meridians are much better to travel on than EMT HSTs, plug sockets better seats and no jerking from banging into the coach in front every 2 seconds.

 

[387star]

The 'big empty space' is definitely needed. You can barely fit anything in the overhead racks, there's not a great deal of space under the seats because of a silly bar under them, and then the normal luggage racks aren't exactly ample. Having been on a Voyager from Bristol-Manchester full of students going home for Christmas it was more than clear these new racks are needed!

What's that bar for?

 

[HSTEd]

But don't tilt? Only in britain

So you want to pay for the design of an all new body shell for a 125mph DEMU to gain a few inches of width at the top of the carriage?
And I assume you also pillory the Mark 4s because they don't tilt despite having a tilting profile?

 

[387star]

Am I right one coach does not fully partition first and standard class or has this been changed
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On the 222)

 

[talltim]

Discovered a new 'feature' on the 222s, when the engines are shutdown ( as they do during the turnaround at Sheffield) there is no light in the loo!

 

[387star]

Has anyone noticed how battered the edges are where bikes are left banging against them on Xc voyagers
Sometimes the vibrations cause headaches they are so bad
Not to mention the grey plastic bottom sides of the seats breaking... The covers are snapping off leaving the unsightly plastic inner fitting exposed
Not keen on Xc voyagers... The luggage space has improved though
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Discovered a new 'feature' on the 222s, when the engines are shutdown ( as they do during the turnaround at Sheffield) there is no light in the loo!

Still to go on one
Does the entire coach rattle and vibrate when they take off from a station?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Meridians are much better to travel on than EMT HSTs, plug sockets better seats and no jerking from banging into the coach in front every 2 seconds.

Give me an EMT HST any day Comfy seats nice and quiet due to separate power cars and room to stretch out. Also IIRC there are some sockets on EMT HSTs

 

[43074]

Give me an EMT HST any day Comfy seats nice and quiet due to separate power cars and room to stretch out. Also IIRC there are some sockets on EMT HSTs

I concur. I travel far more comfortably on an EMT HST than a Meridian because they feel more spacious; although they don't have sockets in Standard Class which is the only downside.

 

[HSTEd]

HSTs seem to be acquiring some serious jerking issues though.....