Cross Country route pre-Voyagers

[Mugby]

I dislike the Voyagers, in fact i hate them and vow that i will never use one again, id rather drive my car.

I dislike them too, with a roaring engine under your feet for hours on end but unfortunately they are a necessary evil.

It's a bit ironic that you can usually get a quieter ride on a 170!

 

[Gareth Marston]

I'm fairly certain Summer 1982 was the last timetable which included the Summer Saturday expresses via the Marches.

There was also the motorail (Newton Abbot to Stirling?) which lasted until 1984.

The Marches local service was indeed shocking in the late 70's/early 80's. Improvements started in around 1985 with extensions to/from Manchester from Cardiff followed by the Cardiff to Holyhead & return. The real improvement arrived with Sprinterisation in 1987 or 1988. Certain services remained loco hauled for quite a while though due to problems/shortages regarding the new units.

Lot of cuts in 82, Barrow to Euston, west Wales sleeper

We had a few years of restored SW to NW trains via the Marches 98/99 to 05 and through trains to Liverpool too, sacrificed for Cdf to Holyhead trains.

 

[burty76]

No-one will convince me that Voyagers are fit for purpose for long distance travel, but the reliabilty, speed and frequency of services is so much better than in pre-operation princess days.

I regularly make a trip from Wakefield to Birmingham after work on a Friday. Here are my current options :

Dep 1623 Arr 1805 (1h 42m)
Dep 1652 Arr 1827 (1h 35m)
Dep 1723 Arr 1908 (1h 45m)
Dep 1823 Arr 2009 (1h 46m)

And the equivalent in 1993 :

Dep 1745 Arr 1943 (1h 58m)

And thats it! Previous train was at 1528 and the 1745 is the last direct train to Birmingham of the day. The current last train is 2123.

 

[The Ham]

No-one will convince me that Voyagers are fit for purpose for long distance travel, but the reliabilty, speed and frequency of services is so much better than in pre-operation princess days.

I regularly make a trip from Wakefield to Birmingham after work on a Friday. Here are my current options :

Dep 1623 Arr 1805 (1h 42m)
Dep 1652 Arr 1827 (1h 35m)
Dep 1723 Arr 1908 (1h 45m)
Dep 1823 Arr 2009 (1h 46m)

And the equivalent in 1993 :

Dep 1745 Arr 1943 (1h 58m)

And thats it! Previous train was at 1528 and the 1745 is the last direct train to Birmingham of the day. The current last train is 2123.

... and that proves the point that although there are some/many (delete as you feel appropriate) who do not like the Voyagers most of them tollirate the Voyagers as it provides them with a better service than they had previously.

Yes XC should have retained their service to more places and/or ordered more/longer Voyagers and/or had a option to lenthen some of their trains (possibly added to the order for Meridians), but hopefuly other TOC's will have learnt from that oversight and will not make the same mistake.

 

[calbar]

By the way, it's also worth remembering that at the time of the diagram posted upthread (2001), VXC ran quite a few services with a single 158. Such as the infamous Portsmouth to Blackpool service.

the 158 wasnt in virgin colours though was it?

 

[Eagle]

the 158 wasnt in virgin colours though was it?

No, they were in the RR blue stripes with Virgin stickers on. They moved to Northern Spirit when the first Voyagers came in and were I think repainted into the "big N" livery (not sure which colour though).

All are now with FGW.

 

[D6975]

In the late 80s, there used to be a minimum of 6 reliefs a day through Bristol on a Summer weekday, usually 47s with the occasional 31 or 45. Typically it was something like:
09xx 12xx 17x Northbound
14xx, 19xx Southbound
15xx terminator, went back as the 17xx (the one most likely to be a Peak this one)
Destinations varied, Northbound was usually York or Leeds, occasionally Glasgow, Southbound Exeter, Plymouth or Penzance. Strangely they rarely went to Paignton.

 

[CC 72100]

In the late 80s, there used to be a minimum of 6 reliefs a day through Bristol on a Summer weekday, usually 47s with the occasional 31 or 45. Typically it was something like:
09xx 12xx 17x Northbound
14xx, 19xx Southbound
15xx terminator, went back as the 17xx (the one most likely to be a Peak this one)
Destinations varied, Northbound was usually York or Leeds, occasionally Glasgow, Southbound Exeter, Plymouth or Penzance. Strangely they rarely went to Paignton.

Bet you knew in advance when it was a 31... probably the one that couldn't keep up to timings and always late as a result Don't call them 'Peds' for nothing!

 

[Kettledrum]

The next franchise renewal will be a huge opportunity for the XC routes. There's been lots of diagnosis of what's wrong in terms of:

- XC HSTs not being used,
- former routes no longer served,
- some routes that are served being packed out because the trains are too short
- Arriva XC apparently making no money and needing a subsidy.

Get the franchise spec right, and it could be a really valuable inter city network. The issues are well known.

Anyone know when the Dft will start preparing for the next XC franchise?

 

[tbtc]

The next franchise renewal will be a huge opportunity for the XC routes. There's been lots of diagnosis of what's wrong in terms of:

- XC HSTs not being used,
- former routes no longer served,
- some routes that are served being packed out because the trains are too short
- Arriva XC apparently making no money and needing a subsidy.

Get the franchise spec right, and it could be a really valuable inter city network. The issues are well known.

Anyone know when the Dft will start preparing for the next XC franchise?

If we are talking 2019 (i.e. end of CP5) then you could free up around a dozen Voyagers by running the Manchester - South Coast service as EMUs - that'd add a good bit of capacity to the York - Bristol "core".

As I've suggested a few times, if you split the "X" up (so that the NE-SW service was separated from the NW-S route) you could have a half hourly Manchester - South Coast service wholly run by EMUs which would give a couple of dozen extra Voyagers to concentrate on the York - Bristol service.

No, they were in the RR blue stripes with Virgin stickers on. They moved to Northern Spirit when the first Voyagers came in and were I think repainted into the "big N" livery (not sure which colour though)

I don't *know* the answer, but from memory all of the 158s at Northern Spirit ended up in either the "raspberry/gold" trans-pennine livery (most of them) or the "red/cream" Metro livery (just a handful).

I don't remember any 158 in the "blue/green" livery (plenty of 156s in that livery though - suited them).

 

[sprinterguy]

No, they were in the RR blue stripes with Virgin stickers on. They moved to Northern Spirit when the first Voyagers came in and were I think repainted into the "big N" livery (not sure which colour though).

All are now with FGW.

Only one of the Crosscountry class 158s (158750) went to Arriva Trains Northern, for use on Transpennine services. The XC class 158 fleet was disbanded after the Northern Spirit franchise became ATN. 158750 never gained Transpennine Express livery, and became the last Regional Railways Express liveried 158, albeit with the addition of First TPE dark blue vinyls by the time that it transferred to FGW.

The remaining four Crosscountry 158s went direct from XC to Wessex Trains, and thence to FGW.
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I don't *know* the answer, but from memory all of the 158s at Northern Spirit ended up in either the "raspberry/gold" trans-pennine livery (most of them) or the "red/cream" Metro livery (just a handful).

I don't remember any 158 in the "blue/green" livery (plenty of 156s in that livery though - suited them).

Yep, all of the Northern Spirit/ATN leased class 158s, barring 158750 which came late to the franchise, received the purple and gold "Transpennine Express" variant of the Northern Spirit livery. The ten class 158/9s were leased by West Yorkshire PTE, though formed part of the NS/ATN franchise, and retained their "as delivered" red & cream Metro livery (Barring 158909) until around the time that TPE was split from the North East franchise, which retained them.