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Busaholic

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Hameed is not ready for test match cricket yet, but should tour with the Lions (if they are on tour this winter)
Bell-Drummond is good enough to open, but only playing div 2 cricket may hinder him some what. Jason Roy could be the better choice to open alongside Cook, but who else will come in and replace both Vince and Ballance? Actually we only need 1 person as Adil Rashid will come in as the 2nd spinner in Bangladesh and India.

I'm in agreement with you that Hameed is probably not ready for test cricket yet, but then neither was Alastair Cook when he was pulled out of the Lions tour to the West Indies and flown to India to make his test debut, responding with a century in his first match. Sometimes it is good to pitch an exceptionally-gifted player into the deep end to see whether they can swim, almost regardless of age. Bell-Drummond playing for a second division side should make no difference, the days of first division sides acquiring world-class overseas bowlers being long past, and I would suggest there is no huge gulf between the team at the top of the first division and the one at the bottom of the second. Bell-Drummond, in any case, first came to attention in Kent's game against Australia which preceded the test series last year, and he made a top-class century against four pace bowlers vying for two places in that test team. Rashid must be taken - Samit Patel is not good enough and I don't know where Ansari has got his good reputation from, but it's certainly not from his bowling figures.
 
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Whistler40145

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Should the ECB move forward and end Ian Bell's England career?

He's nicely settled in his new role as Warwickshire Captain and without being rude, age isn't on his better side, so I think he should graciously disappear into the background.

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Howardh

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You won't know if anyone's "ready or not" unless you try them. What's the point of wasting two years or so in the Lions or A teams when they could be learning out in the middle?
 

Busaholic

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Should the ECB move forward and end Ian Bell's England career?

He's nicely settled in his new role as Warwickshire Captain and without being rude, age isn't on his better side, so I think he should graciously disappear into the background.

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He's not on any Central Contract that I am aware of, so I don't think there's anything to end! In theory, he could still play for England again, but then so could KP, very much in theory. Steve Harmison spent the last few years of his career thinking he might get picked again, but there was probably more chance of seeing pigs flying over Ashington than that : ditto Simon Jones and his various comebacks from injury. More recently Rob Key was often touted for a comeback (scoring 221 in a Lords test is no guarantee of a decent run if your face doesn't fit, for whatever reason) but it was probably never going to happen in view of Shane Warne's self-serving damnation of him.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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He's not on any Central Contract that I am aware of, so I don't think there's anything to end! In theory, he could still play for England again, but then so could KP, very much in theory. Steve Harmison spent the last few years of his career thinking he might get picked again, but there was probably more chance of seeing pigs flying over Ashington than that : ditto Simon Jones and his various comebacks from injury. More recently Rob Key was often touted for a comeback (scoring 221 in a Lords test is no guarantee of a decent run if your face doesn't fit, for whatever reason) but it was probably never going to happen in view of Shane Warne's self-serving damnation of him.

Ian Bell does remain on a Central Contract. I would select him for India if he has the 'desire' back. He is better than Hales, Vince and Ballance at the moment for this tour. He is 'only' 34 (same age as Anderson). I never understand why England - and many English fans - see this as 'old' in cricketing terms. It paind me to say it but Australia have led the way recently (Rogers and Voges) and then Pakistan have Misbah and Younis.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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I'd tell Ian Bell, sorry mate, you're retired. We need to look for younger blood.

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That's what I don't understand. Why look for younger blood if an older player is better? or, at least, no worse and with plenty of experience behind him. I can well understand that Ian Bell might have felt quite jaded after years on the International circuit, but if he feels that he has the hunger back for one more tour what is wrong with that? England's search for a young player to replace him (and Andrew Strauss after all these years!) has hardly been successful so far!
 

Whistler40145

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What we need is a better Captain to start with and a decent opening batsman, Hales isn't good enough.

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Busaholic

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Ian Bell does remain on a Central Contract. I would select him for India if he has the 'desire' back. He is better than Hales, Vince and Ballance at the moment for this tour. He is 'only' 34 (same age as Anderson). I never understand why England - and many English fans - see this as 'old' in cricketing terms. It paind me to say it but Australia have led the way recently (Rogers and Voges) and then Pakistan have Misbah and Younis.

I should have checked that CC list - it came out almost a year ago, so Bairstow and Woakes, for two, aren't on it. Poor old James Taylor is on it too. I wouldn't select Bell, because his test match average for 2015 was only 35, and his overall average of 42 is only good, not VG or excellent. His hunger has been doubted by many good judges of the game, and he's not making that many runs for Warwickshire this year. There is often the desire, very human I am sure, to give tried and trusted players 'one last tour' but it almost always ends badly, with batsmen like Gooch, Gatting and Thorpe (the latter impeding the development of Bell) struggling. Australia too are not immune, in the case of captains at least - Steve Waugh and Ponting spring to mind. Chris Rogers is doing virtually nothing as a batsman at Somerset, despite having the considerable advantage of playing half his innings on that Taunton pitch. It's not necessarily because of age, though, as Trescothick has scored plenty for Somerset, and Misbah and Younus Khan showed how good they still are.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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. Chris Rogers is doing virtually nothing as a batsman at Somerset, despite having the considerable advantage of playing half his innings on that Taunton pitch..

Yes, I realise that Rogers has not been a runaway success at Somerset, but he certainly was for Australia (37 when he last played for them). Ian Bell has always infuriated the pundits in the game, and always seemed to be a few low scores away from being dropped...but really, is there anyone else available in England who can go to India (for the first time on a senior tour) and help win the series? I'd love to think that there was.
I do like the look of Hameed...I was at Old Trafford last week and he was good against a strong Yorkshire attack...but could he emulate Cook and Root?
 

Busaholic

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Yes, I realise that Rogers has not been a runaway success at Somerset, but he certainly was for Australia (37 when he last played for them). Ian Bell has always infuriated the pundits in the game, and always seemed to be a few low scores away from being dropped...but really, is there anyone else available in England who can go to India (for the first time on a senior tour) and help win the series? I'd love to think that there was.
I do like the look of Hameed...I was at Old Trafford last week and he was good against a strong Yorkshire attack...but could he emulate Cook and Root?

Cook and Root were both introduced at a young age, and both were immediate successes. Bairstow was also introduced at quite a young age and imo was not given a sufficient chance despite his innings of 80 at Lords. Ben Duckett is the one I would take a punt on for opener, with Sam Northeast in the no. 4 position. I think that Bell COULD have a chance still as a spare batsman, just as Ballance did in SA without actually playing.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Cook and Root were both introduced at a young age, and both were immediate successes. Bairstow was also introduced at quite a young age and imo was not given a sufficient chance despite his innings of 80 at Lords. Ben Duckett is the one I would take a punt on for opener, with Sam Northeast in the no. 4 position. I think that Bell COULD have a chance still as a spare batsman, just as Ballance did in SA without actually playing.

If they want a middle order batsman to travel, but not to play, my trusty willow is ready-linseeded with a new handle cover....:D
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Day 3 of the Surrey v Lancashire County Championship Division 1 match saw Lancashire in their second innings building what looked to be a total that would allow them to bat into the fourth and final day, hopefully obtaining a draw. The score had reached 167-2 then a batting collapse ensued and early on the final day, they were all out for 230, leaving Surrey the easy task of scoring 39 without loss to win by 10 wickets, with most of the day to spare.

Footitt's bowling return in that second innings was 20.4 - 4 - 62 - 7.
 

Busaholic

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I predict Hameed of Lancashire will be picked for the tour of India, and not as a spare batsman. Hales may well lose out: the Mark Ramprakash comparisons don't go away, and the scenes with the 3rd umpire at the Oval may have sealed his fate. Ballance will probably get picked again, but no more chances for Vince at this level. Leach of Somerset might get picked as an extra spinner, his left-handedness bringing another option. He has apparently been crucial in some tight results at Taunton this year, both with bat and ball, and 'character' is something selectors are always on the look-out for. If chosen for a test, his action and approach is apparently similar to Derek 'Deadly' Underwood who managed the little matter of 297 test wickets, so not a bad model.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Alex Hales just beat the record for the highest one day score by an England player - 171 went past Robin Smith's 167 not out. Jason Roy scored 162 earlier in the summer. Nobody should doubt Hales's talent, it's his temperament which is called into question, in the Test arena anyway.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I predict Hameed of Lancashire will be picked for the tour of India, and not as aAlex Hales just beat the record for the highest one day score by an England player - 171 went past Robin Smith's 167 not out. Jason Roy scored 162 earlier in the summer. Nobody should doubt Hales's talent, it's his temperament which is called into question, in the Test arena anyway.

Matters continued apace after that....
Root 85 from 86 balls with 8 x 4
Buttler 90 not out from 51 balls with 7 x 6 and 7 x 4
Morgan 67 not out from 27 balls with 5 x 6 and 3 x 4
England finished their 50 overs in a world record score of 444-3

One of the Pakistan seamers went for 110 runs from his 10 overs.

Pakistan only managed a certain amount of respectability to their score at the very end when last man Amir came into bat at 199-9 and he hit 58 from 28 balls with 4 x 6 and 5 x 4 before being dismissed and in 42.4 overs, Pakistan were all out for 275.

England now hold a winning 3-0 lead in the series
 

Howardh

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Are these huge scores GOOD for one-day cricket? Thinking in the early days, if you got 235 in the Gillette Cup (60 overs) that was considered defendable, and looking at Lancs stats around those times they would win more than lose getting that score, and the second innings could be very enthralling either way.
However, 400+, and the second innings gets to two down for 20 in 5 and the game's dead.
It has been mentioned that the size and constiturion of the bats means top edges and hits not off the middle still go for 6. Think it's time, in 1-day cricket at least, there was a restriction on weight, depth and size of edges of bats. And do away with "powerplays".
In other words, Give Bowlers A Chance, or kid's won't want to bowl and we will end up batting against bowling machines.
Although the current Lancashire could do with one.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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On the first day of Division 1 County Championship match, Somerset made a good start with their openers Trescothick (60) and Abell (135) putting together an opening stand of 134 and they proceeded to reach 267-2, then had a slump to 287-7, before the late order steadied matters somewhat.

Latest bowling return of Bailey... 21 - 5 -53 - 4.

****************************************************************************************************************************

Day two of the match then saw an excellent stand of 236 between Trego 154 not out with 24 x 4 and Davies 86 with 1 x 6 and 9 x 4 which took the score from 287-7 to 523-8.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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I wonder if anyone can give me any accurate information as to the two-tier County Championship for the 2017/2018 season. There are currently nine teams in both the two divisions and I understand at the end of the current season, two teams will be relegated from Division 1 to Division 2 and only one team promoted from Division 2 to Division 1.

Is the intention to have eight teams in Division 1 and ten teams in Division 2 in the future?
 

Busaholic

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I wonder if anyone can give me any accurate information as to the two-tier County Championship for the 2017/2018 season. There are currently nine teams in both the two divisions and I understand at the end of the current season, two teams will be relegated from Division 1 to Division 2 and only one team promoted from Division 2 to Division 1.

Is the intention to have eight teams in Division 1 and ten teams in Division 2 in the future?

Yes, Paul, that is the intention, and I believe it's the case that each team will play 14 championship matches a season rather than the current 16. In other words, teams in the 2nd Division will only play some other teams once a summer, making for a rather disjointed championship. There is a lot of talk of certain out-grounds that only host one match per season will be cut out of the schedule e.g. Colchester and Guildford. Lancs grounds away from Old Trafford may suffer too. I think I also read that only one team per season will get relegated/promoted in future.
 

Howardh

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Yes, Paul, that is the intention, and I believe it's the case that each team will play 14 championship matches a season rather than the current 16. In other words, teams in the 2nd Division will only play some other teams once a summer, making for a rather disjointed championship. There is a lot of talk of certain out-grounds that only host one match per season will be cut out of the schedule e.g. Colchester and Guildford. Lancs grounds away from Old Trafford may suffer too. I think I also read that only one team per season will get relegated/promoted in future.

I reckon the second division should play each other twice, and to do that 3-day cricket could return, but with longer days (110 overs instead of 96); and doing that some counties could have their week-long festivals back (ie two games back-to-back) and earn some much needed revenue from the first class game.
 

backontrack

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Of course they had to do it when Kent looked like they might get promoted. We'd be certain for promotion had they not made the change. :roll:

But NOTTS ARE RELEGATED! What a shock!
 

Busaholic

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Of course they had to do it when Kent looked like they might get promoted. We'd be certain for promotion had they not made the change. :roll:

But NOTTS ARE RELEGATED! What a shock!

I've been a Kent supporter since 1957, and was present at the Oval on that dank September afternoon when Colin Cowdrey and co won the County Championship in 1970, so I can (just!) remember the good days, but is it yet certain that Kent would have secured the second promotion slot? If we were to beat Essex in the final match of the season, then I think we may have been hard-done-by, but until then... The loss to Northants was a bit of a shocker, but Ben Duckett was, I am sure, out to make a point to the selectors regarding his absence from the T20 team that lost so heavily to Pakistan. Still, there'll be a place if Morgan commits hari-kari, which seems increasingly likely, and Hales follows him.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Penultimate round of county matches. Yorkshire, who won toss and chose to bat, shot out quickly and Somerset are closing on their total having only lost one wicket, Trescothick and Rogers going well. It is the final match at Headingley under Jason Gillespie, who has an unbeaten record there dating from his second match, the first against Sussex being lost. Top and tail? If Yorks should lose and Middlesex only draw against Lancs at Old Trafford then Somerset MIGHT just win the championship for the very first time.

A draw at Old Trafford might just suit Lancs very well - the points for a draw would probably help ensure they don't get relegated. Middx still thinking of winning, of course, having surprisingly been put in to bat by Lancs, a position they would have chosen anyway if given the option. Lancs opening bat Hameed given his county cap, the youngest Lancs player since WW2.: probably the first in a succession of good news for this outstanding young player this autumn. Alviro Peterson, though, expected to retire at the end of the season.
 

ainsworth74

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Bad day for cricket. Bye bye, thanks for the memories.

For a bit of context:

Cricket in England looks set for its most dramatic change in a generation after the counties voted in favour of city-based cricket.

Offered five options by the ECB executive, the counties (plus the MCC) voted by a margin of 16-3 in favour of Option Four, which will see a new competition played by city-based sides and starting as soon as 2018. For the first two years, at least, it seems the tournament will be broadcast by Sky and not involve England players. Both those factors may change after a new broadcast deal is agreed for 2020 onwards.

The existing NatWest Blast competition is also expected to continue and is likely to be played in the weeks before the city-based tournament, which will be held in July.

ESPNcricinfo understands that only Surrey, Kent and Sussex voted against the proposals at the meeting attended by the chairmen and chief executives of all 18 counties and the MCC.

The ECB said the process has now entered a 'consultation phase' with county members. However, they hope to take the plan to their board for approval before Christmas. While some county figures insist this move is not binding - the vote was informal - and that they are simply keen to learn more about the ECB's plans for city-based cricket, there is no other option left on the table.

"We've all been looking at how we can use domestic T20 for an even bigger purpose, especially getting more young people to play," Colin Graves, the ECB chairman, said. "This format was invented here and is successful worldwide. It can excite new fans, attract the best players and fuel the future of the game, on and off the pitch.

"The need to grow interest and participation in the game we love is at the core of our thinking and this is a rigorous process. We've talked to each county individually about the need for change, a range of potential options and the implications.

"There's a constructive dialogue with county chairmen and chief executives, the MCC and PCA and now agreement to move forward and further develop this approach. The next steps for us all, as a game, will be to extend the discussions and get valuable input from players, members and other key voices across the game."

It will prove a tough sell for some county executives. There is very little support for the city-based idea among members of the smaller counties and this decision may well spark local rebellions. The ECB have lifted the non-disclosure agreement that originally forbade talking about the details for 10 years.

The implications for English cricket are significant. Not only will the new T20 competition see domestic cricket played between teams other than counties for the first time in more than a century, it also seems that around 100 players will be taken out of Championship cricket for the month-long duration of the tournament. In the longer term, it is likely that the Championship schedule - already set to be cut from 16 to 14 games in 2017 - will be cut further.

It also seems the ECB constitution will have to be altered. At present it states that all competitions have to involve all 18 counties.

The development will be interpreted as a triumph for both the ECB chairman, Colin Graves, and the CEO, Tom Harrison. They have pushed for such consensus for some time and taken several defeats in the process. This step means they are very likely to achieve their hopes of introducing city-based cricket, lessen the control of the counties, and bring in new revenues.

Source
 

Busaholic

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Bad day for cricket. Bye bye, thanks for the memories.

Don't be too downcast - cricketers themselves know that test cricket is the pinnacle, and that all this other stuff is peripheral. There are exceptions among the less cerebral of the breed, like Chris Gayle and Eion Morgan who have been seduced by the money and the 'glamour' but the ones who will be spoken of in twenty years time are the Alastair Cooks of the world imo.

Wonderful round of county championship performances, with Worcestershire beating Sussex by 11 runs, Yorkshire losing to Somerset despite producing a pitch they thought would negate the spin of Jack Leach (they were wrong), Rob Jones of Lancs being the youngest batsman to carry his bat for the county since Cyril Washbrook in 1935 and Essex winning the 2nd Division title with a fine all-round performance from their captain, plus more wickets for the retiring Graham Napier, a one-county man during his career.
 

Howardh

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Don't be too downcast - cricketers themselves know that test cricket is the pinnacle, and that all this other stuff is peripheral. There are exceptions among the less cerebral of the breed, like Chris Gayle and Eion Morgan who have been seduced by the money and the 'glamour' but the ones who will be spoken of in twenty years time are the Alastair Cooks of the world imo.

Wonderful round of county championship performances, with Worcestershire beating Sussex by 11 runs, Yorkshire losing to Somerset despite producing a pitch they thought would negate the spin of Jack Leach (they were wrong), Rob Jones of Lancs being the youngest batsman to carry his bat for the county since Cyril Washbrook in 1935 and Essex winning the 2nd Division title with a fine all-round performance from their captain, plus more wickets for the retiring Graham Napier, a one-county man during his career.

I (and a substantial number of others) have been glued to the Lancs/Middx game. The fall, and rise, of a team like that simply can't happen in 20sodding20. I can't recall one single 20/20 game - yet my head's full of heroic Lanky CC successes (and many more failures). Young Jones's effort, and subsequent celebration, will live long in the memory. A quick 50 in the 20/20 won't.
Neither will a quick 150.
 

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