CRB Check Help

[ItchyRsole]

Forgive me mods if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it if so.

Right basically what it is, is that I have done an assessment & interview for FCC & have had an email back saying I have been successful & they have offered me a conditional offer of employment on the satisfactory completion of a medical, references & a CRB check.

Now this is going to sound ridiculous but I got a fine at magistrates court about 5-6 years ago for fare evasion on a FCC service! (I did say it would be ridiculous!) It was a totally honest mistake but obviously now it has got me worried.

Does anyone know for 1) Does that kind of thing show on a CRB check & 2)would something so minor be enough for me to have the offer taken back?


Any help from anyone in the know would be gratefully appreciated.

 

[merlodlliw]

Forgive me mods if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it if so.

Right basically what it is, is that I have done an assessment & interview for FCC & have had an email back saying I have been successful & they have offered me a conditional offer of employment on the satisfactory completion of a medical, references & a CRB check.

Now this is going to sound ridiculous but I got a fine at magistrates court about 5-6 years ago for fare evasion on a FCC service! (I did say it would be ridiculous!) It was a totally honest mistake but obviously now it has got me worried.

Does anyone know for 1) Does that kind of thing show on a CRB check & 2)would something so minor be enough for me to have the offer taken back?


Any help from anyone in the know would be gratefully appreciated.

If the offence was criminal, ie fare evasion, it will show up,but you will get a copy, did you mention this at interview. I think offences of this type last for ten years on records, what job did you apply for,depends what FCC consider minor,and what depth of CRB check as been requested.

If the offence was in civil proceedings no it wont show up.

Bob

 

[yorkie]

Forgive me mods if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it if so.

Right basically what it is, is that I have done an assessment & interview for FCC & have had an email back saying I have been successful & they have offered me a conditional offer of employment on the satisfactory completion of a medical, references & a CRB check

Is that an enhanced or standard CRB check?

If it is an enhanced check it will show everything.

I believe a standard check will not show convictions that are considered 'spent'.

Now this is going to sound ridiculous but I got a fine at magistrates court about 5-6 years ago for fare evasion on a FCC service! (I did say it would be ridiculous!) It was a totally honest mistake but obviously now it has got me worried.

What were you convicted of exactly?

If you were found guilty of intending to avoid payment of a fare, in accordance with the 1889 Regulation of Railways act, section 5, that is serious.

If you were found guilty of a byelaw offence, then I do not believe they are 'recorded' (I recall an RPI saying so on this forum), however I am unsure if that really is the case (there will surely be a record somewhere), and it may be the case that an enhanced check might bring this up, to be honest I do not know.

Even a caution when you were under 18 shows up (despite police claiming to people cautioned that it will go off their record when they are 18!) on an enhanced check.

Does anyone know for 1) Does that kind of thing show on a CRB check

Depending on your answers above, probably yes.

& 2)would something so minor be enough for me to have the offer taken back?

Probably, yes. Especially in today's job market!

 

[ItchyRsole]

Thanx guys. Ok now I'm worried.

I didn't declare it on the application or at the interview because I thought it was a civil offence & not actually a criminal offence. Someone could buy the wrong ticket & still be done for the same thing so thought it was between you & the rail firm as such not the law book.

I don't know what I was convicted of as I moved house & when I went back to my previous address to collect my mail I had a fine from the magistrates court that fined me in my absence.

I think it's ridiculous something so minor could hold you back for life from getting a career. Should be looked at really.

 

[CarterUSM]

I thought most applications asked for unspent convictions, with obvious exceptions requiring an enhanced check. I do not know for sure, but your conviction may now be spent, it is worth checking it out yourself.

 

[yorkie]

I didn't declare it on the application or at the interview because I thought it was a civil offence & not actually a criminal offence.

Only you can tell us what the offence was. Until we know, we can't really comment (other than to speculate).

Someone could buy the wrong ticket & still be done for the same thing so thought it was between you & the rail firm as such not the law book.

What do you mean by 'the wrong ticket'? You give me a specific scenario and I will give you a specific opinion, but in general I would say that someone should not be given a conviction for 'buying the wrong ticket', unless there was intent to buy the wrong ticket (e.g. adult on child ticket).

If you buy the 'wrong ticket' in the sense that you buy an Off Peak ticket routed Not London and travel via London on a train that counts as 'peak' for that specific ticket, then you would in that case be asked to pay the excess to the appropriate fare (not charged a new fare or even a penalty fare and certainly not prosecuted), and you would only have a chance of getting a conviction if you refused to pay that fare or in some other way attempted the avoidance of the excess fare (e.g. you knew it was invalid and hid in the toilet).

In general if you have a ticket that is simply 'wrong', there is no realistic prospect of an immediate court summons and conviction just for that. The exception would be if it was 'wrong' in a way that you knew there was no prospect of it being valid e.g. a child ticket.

I don't know what I was convicted of as I moved house & when I went back to my previous address to collect my mail I had a fine from the magistrates court that fined me in my absence.

I think it's ridiculous something so minor could hold you back for life from getting a career. Should be looked at really.

As I do not know the specifics of your journey, what ticket you held, what happened between you and the RPI(s), and what correspondence there was between you and the TOC (if any) it is impossible for me to comment on it.

 

[ItchyRsole]

I thought most applications asked for unspent convictions, with obvious exceptions requiring an enhanced check. I do not know for sure, but your conviction may now be spent, it is worth checking it out yourself.

I did enquire about this mate but was told I couldn't acquire my own CRB record? Odd. I was told only business's and employers can do it. I think everyone should be entitled to see their own surely.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only you can tell us what the offence was. Until we know, we can't really comment (other than to speculate).


What do you mean by 'the wrong ticket'? You give me a specific scenario and I will give you a specific opinion, but in general I would say that someone should not be given a conviction for 'buying the wrong ticket', unless there was intent to buy the wrong ticket (e.g. adult on child ticket).

As I do not know the specifics of your journey, what ticket you held, what happened between you and the RPI(s), and what correspondence there was between you and the TOC (if any) it is impossible for me to comment on it.

I couldn't give you the official charge as it was years ago & I was so p*ssed off with the whole situation I literally paid the fine & put it out of my head. It's only now I'm starting to think of the repercussions of it.

I came off of the tube at Kings X (old Thames link station) with a valid tube ticket, at the ticket machine in the underpass it was constantly rejecting my £20 note, I had my 3 year old little girl with me it was quite stressful but thought I would just explain & get a ticket on the train, the RPI got on was actually very rude & not prepared to listen to my version of events & proceeded to give me a fine. I have never been dishonest in my life & would certainly not jump a train with my child! As I say a summons came from the magistrates which was paid.

So going on what I have documented maybe yourself or a RPI would know the score?

As I say something something so minor holding someone back from trying to better themselves seems quite severe.

 

[CarterUSM]

But do you know what you were convicted of? If so, you can find out when that conviction becomes "spent". Did the application ask details of unspent convictions?

 

[ItchyRsole]

But do you know what you were convicted of? If so, you can find out when that conviction becomes "spent". Did the application ask details of unspent convictions?

No I don't know what I was convicted of. I would like to know.

Yes I'm sure the application did ask for 'unspent' convictions which I presumed I had none.

 

[yorkie]

I came off of the tube at Kings X (old Thames link station) with a valid tube ticket, at the ticket machine in the underpass it was constantly rejecting my £20 note, I had my 3 year old little girl with me it was quite stressful but thought I would just explain & get a ticket on the train

That's OK with East Coast (formerly GNER) services, where you may buy full-fare tickets on board, but FCC (formerly WAGN) have a policy that you must buy before boarding. This is enforced by charging a penalty fare to anyone who intends to buy a fare, of £20 or twice the fare to the next stop (whichever is the greater), and then the fare from there to their destination. However anyone intending to avoid payment is (meant to be) prosecuted.

the RPI got on was actually very rude & not prepared to listen to my version of events & proceeded to give me a fine.

Unless they asked you certain questions and you gave them certain answers (e.g. "If I had not got on this train, would you have walked off the station without paying?" "Yes" etc), then the most likely action would be a Penalty Fare. An RPI cannot issue a fine, only a court can do that. The other possibility is taking an MG11 statement, however from your post above it indicates you were asked for a fare (well, you said fine, but it'll be a fare), so it sounds unlikely that the RPI put it straight to prosecution to me.

Did you pay the Penalty Fare up front or later?

I have never been dishonest in my life & would certainly not jump a train with my child! As I say a summons came from the magistrates which was paid.

So going on what I have documented maybe yourself or a RPI would know the score?

As I say something something so minor holding someone back from trying to better themselves seems quite severe.

If you were issued with a Penalty Fare and you did not pay it on the spot, and you then did not pay when asked, that is a possible scenario for how this could occur. You would have had to ignore several letters. I doubt if moving address could be a valid excuse for this, as they could argue it is your responsibility to ensure correspondence is forwarded to your new address.

If you were issued with a penalty fare and you paid it then I do not know how this could occur.

 

[CarterUSM]

No I don't know what I was convicted of. I would like to know.

Yes I'm sure the application did ask for 'unspent' convictions which I presumed I had none.

Without knowing the conviction, then it is a case of hoping that it is spent and thet is that. Most fines, are considered spent after a period of 5 years if that helps.

 

[ItchyRsole]

That's OK with East Coast (formerly GNER) services, where you may buy full-fare tickets on board, but FCC (formerly WAGN) have a policy that you must buy before boarding. This is enforced by charging a penalty fare to anyone who intends to buy a fare, of £20 or twice the fare to the next stop (whichever is the greater), and then the fare from there to their destination. However anyone intending to avoid payment is (meant to be) prosecuted.


Unless they asked you certain questions and you gave them certain answers (e.g. "If I had not got on this train, would you have walked off the station without paying?" "Yes" etc), then the most likely action would be a Penalty Fare. An RPI cannot issue a fine, only a court can do that. The other possibility is taking an MG11 statement, however from your post above it indicates you were asked for a fare (well, you said fine, but it'll be a fare), so it sounds unlikely that the RPI put it straight to prosecution to me.

Did you pay the Penalty Fare up front or later?


If you were issued with a Penalty Fare and you did not pay it on the spot, and you then did not pay when asked, that is a possible scenario for how this could occur. You would have had to ignore several letters. I doubt if moving address could be a valid excuse for this, as they could argue it is your responsibility to ensure correspondence is forwarded to your new address.

If you were issued with a penalty fare and you paid it then I do not know how this could occur.

He asked me to pay an on the spot fine which I didn't have the money to do as I had to get a taxi etc once I got off the train. Then as I say within a week or 10 days I had moved house, when I popped back for mail a while later I had been 'fined in my absence' by the magistrates court.

That is the thing that's confusing me, the fact it came from a court does that automatically mean 'criminal conviction' or at least enough to come up on a CRB check do you think?

 

[yorkie]

He asked me to pay an on the spot fine

That'll be a penalty fare, not a fine.

which I didn't have the money to do as I had to get a taxi etc once I got off the train.

Providing you indicated that you had enough money to pay for the correct fare, then what likely happened was a penalty fare was issued and you were sent a letter asking you to pay it, which went ignored (due to the move of house and lack of forwarding).

Did he issue the penalty fare, but with payment to follow later?

Or at that point did he stop issuing a penalty fare and complete an MG11 instead? (this may happen if you indicated you had no money or refused to pay an amount equal to the correct fare for your journey).

Providing you have the correct amount for your actual fare, the penalty fare can be paid for later.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Did he issue the penalty fare, but with payment to follow later?

Or at that point did he stop issuing a penalty fare and complete an MG11 instead? (this may happen if you indicated you had no money or refused to pay an amount equal to the correct fare for your journey)

I would say this would be accurate to my situation Yorkie, as I was so p*ssed off at the handling of it I said send me a fine & proceeded to ignore him.

In hindsight I know that wasn't the most sensible move but you live and learn I guess.

 

[yorkie]

Did he hand you a slip of paper at the end, and if so what did it say?

 

[ItchyRsole]

Did he hand you a slip of paper at the end, and if so what did it say?

He did, it was like a little report. Can't remember exactly what he said, but along the lines of what we spoke about previously with regards to, not having a ticket, didn't want to pay an on the spot fine etc.

Sorry if its slightly vague, was quite a long time ago.

 

[yorkie]

Hmm, doesn't sound good then, it looks like you were not issued a Penalty Fare and the RPI may have sent a report to the prosecutions department to decide what action to take. However it is difficult to know what they prosecuted you for, it is possible the offence was not recordable. Either way, I think you will be okay if it is a Standard CRB check.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Hmm, doesn't sound good then, it looks like you were not issued a Penalty Fare and the RPI may have sent a report to the prosecutions department to decide what action to take. However it is difficult to know what they prosecuted you for, it is possible the offence was not recordable. Either way, I think you will be okay if it is a Standard CRB check.

Really appreciate your advice.

As I say it seems totally unfair you can be held back in life over something so minor. No violence, not a sex crime, not fraud, not drugs yet you could be denied a job after fairly winning a spot. Wrong in my book.

Thanx again though Yorkie, if you get any other info would you mind posting it on this thread please.

 

[yorkie]

I agree. I wish you well, and good luck with your application. I will try to find out & let you know.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Thanks mate.

 

[merlodlliw]

You can request a copy of the CRB, in the voluntary sector both parties sign for the result to be sent to each, however you can & should receive a copy.
#
Spent convictions, I am sure it was ten years, also check was the summons from the magistrates court CIVIL or CRIMINAL, it makes a big difference,Civil cases do not appear under CRB, also remember a speeding offence is Criminal law. & what level check have they asked for.

Bob

 

[ItchyRsole]

Thanx Bob.

Do you know where I can check if it was civil or criminal??

 

[John @ home]

Do you know where I can check if it was civil or criminal?

Are you certain that the correspondence was from a Magistrates' Court? They deal with criminal matters in England and Wales, while a County Court deals with civil matters.

 

[Zoe]

All convictions and cautions will show up on a standard CRB check regardless of if they are spent or not. An enhanced check will also show other information the police have about you.

 

[DarloRich]

Standard Disclosures show current and spent convictions, cautions, reprimands, and warnings held on the Police National Computer. It will also include any information held on government lists about people considered unsuitable to work with children. The DoH and DfES hold such lists.

it might be worth having a look at this website which should answer your questions:

http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/using_the_website/applicant.aspx#whatinfo

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I confirm that even a Standard CRB Check will show any spent Criminal convictions as well as 'current' Convictions. (Your description of events does tend to suggest that it is likely your incident was a Criminal conviction). The employer will not necessarily withdraw a provisional job offer if there is an entry on the CRB disclosure, and in fact is obliged to make a careful decision after considering its relevance to the particular job and discussing its accuracy, the circumstances and its relevance with you.

If it was a Civil Action (which as John @ Home said, would have been in a County Court), then these can be seen as County Court Judgements (CCJs) where successful claims against you and any unpaid fines arising from claims in other Courts will be recorded. You are entitled to search these yourself, for a small fee. If you did search and found that your 'conviction' was there, then at least you would know that its no also going to be on the Criminal record! It is very unlikely that an employer would be interested in CCJs. After time (6 years in most cases), or after settling the claim, CCJs become expired and should be removed from the records although sometimes they may need to be informed.

 

[4SRKT]

I may be being a wally or something but why do you need a CRB to work for FCC?

 

[Clip]

I may be being a wally or something but why do you need a CRB to work for FCC?

Ticket office maybe? Want to make sure they dont have a tea leaf working there..

 

[4SRKT]

Ticket office maybe? Want to make sure they dont have a tea leaf working there..

Oh. I thought CRBs were to winkle out paedophiles.

Are thieves never to be given second chances once convictions are spent in this brave new world then? Should work wonders for the reoffending figures. Not.

 

[merlodlliw]

I may be being a wally or something but why do you need a CRB to work for FCC?

CRBs are done to death, its just another bolt on to pay a consultants fee,unless you are working with money(the old fidelity bond ), or on a regular basis with children or certain adults, there really is no need.

A CRB all clear can be given today, and tomorrow an offence is commuted which wont show up. Unless an annual CRB check is made, its just taken from a moment in time.


Bob