Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[Bantamzen]

I'm afraid I'm in the "believe it when I see it" camp on this. Unfortunately when we see stuff like schools being closed after one day, or the debacle over Christmas, anything is possible. Unfortunately, I do sense that the media mood is largely negative - which means Boris needs to hold his nerve, meanwhile we wait to see what the devolved powers will do... Sturgeon is bound to see if she can find a "Scotland would be okay if it wasn't for England / The Tories / Boris" policy, and NI tends to align to RO, so a lot perhaps depends on what Drakeford decides to do.

Maybe, but don't forget restrictions mean even more cost, which will in the near future mean more cutbacks, tax increases etc, etc. The GE may still be three years away, the consequences of the vast cost are going to have to start to be paid for before then. That's why the Tories have started to get twitchy about ongoing restrictions, they will want to get at least some of the pain out of the way before the 2024 campaign gets under way.

 

[edwin_m]

Hmm, I come away with the opposite conclusion. Mask wearing is highly contextual and legislation can never cover the nuance of when they are more or less appropriate.

If given the choice, would you wear a mask in near-empty train carriages? If so, why? If not, why do you believe that the government should mandate it?

That was kind of my point. If there's no risk in wearing a mask in an empty train carriage, or any other indoor setting with few people, the government should come out and say so. It would be quite easy to provide guidance that empty indoor settings are OK and crowded ones aren't, for example. At present we're all being expected to make up our own rules and potentially to disagree with the rules that others make up.

 

[43066]

I’m slightly concerned for a number of reasons.
This closing of bubbles in schools - it’s been and continues to be a nightmare for teaching staff but a very local example has demonstrated exactly how important it is for students to isolate. At the beginning of week 1, one staff member tested positive. By the end of week 2, this had grown to 80+ cases across the school, which was then promptly shut down by PHE. We are still seeing the spillover in primary as our younger siblings have had positive cases or parents have been testing positive at various points throughout the 10-day self isolation period. It’s scary to think you can have such a close group of contacts, which in itself is a relatively unique situation, where cases can increase in the space of ten days to a point where action has to be taken to prevent the spread further.

I’d say that example shows the ludicrousness of expecting children and teachers to isolate at all. It’s causing goodness knows how much damage to education, with something like 400,000 children off at the moment, after months and months of disruption.

We know the virus poses a negligible risk to children and all teachers at risk will now have been vaccinated, so what on Earth purpose is served by asking schoolchildren to stay at home?

 

[bramling]

Maybe, but don't forget restrictions mean even more cost, which will in the near future mean more cutbacks, tax increases etc, etc. The GE may still be three years away, the consequences of the vast cost are going to have to start to be paid for before then. That's why the Tories have started to get twitchy about ongoing restrictions, they will want to get at least some of the pain out of the way before the 2024 campaign gets under way.

I hope you're right, however I can see Boris caving in if he starts to come under scrutiny, as he's bound to do (and, to be fair, not unreasonably so - it's quite right for the pro-restriction contingent to state their case, and for Boris to defend his position). It depends to what extent the likes of Vallance and Whitty really are "on side", and we don't really know what's been going on behind the scenes on that. It *appears* they seem to be behind the notion that it's better to unlock now than in September, but we don't know what the political input has been to allow them to make that case. For balance, we also don't know what pressure Boris is getting from behind the scenes in the form of the backbenchers, stuff like the CRG has been fairly quiet through the first part of the year, at least in public.

 

[greyman42]

My view on face masks in general is that they may help they may not, but they are not difficult to wear for most people apart from the awkward squad so why not wear one?

Because they are ineffective and unpleasant to wear.

 

[102 fan]

My worry about masks and distancing remaining compulsory is more long term disadvantages.

Sure it's great that colds, flus and many other nasty viruses seem to have decreased/disappeared (at least for now). But what will happen to our immune systems if not challenged by such things, does general immunity become less prevalent and people more susceptible to future viruses.

There was already some mention of reduced immune systems in pre-schoolers because they haven't been mixing with their peers. Long term this could be more of a problem.

How does a mask and social distancing stop every other virus but not Covid? Why is it only since the vaccine that it has reduced?

 

[greyman42]

I do find it odd that you have the following.

Pub / club. Crammed in like sardines, shouting and mainly non vaccinated people - ok.

public transport. Mix of people, mainly say down, not talking much. Not ok.

I don’t get it. But be glad the masks are gone personally as I can blend in with the crowd.

Many pubs will have the majority of their customers that have been double jabbed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

i fear that some transport companies will still mandate mask wearing. Is that legal?

Just claim an exemption.

 

[Mat17]

How does a mask and social distancing stop every other virus but not Covid? Why is it only since the vaccine that it has reduced?

Its more than just the mask to be fair (I'm doubtful the masks do much of anything really, more of a placebo I reckon), but more frequent hand washing and cleaning procedures etc. Clearly have made some difference. I've usually had several colds in Feb and Sept, but diddly squat last year or this year, so something's working.

 

[londonteacher]

the only opportunity in the whole year for families with children in school to have a summer

In fairness people can still go on holiday!

 

[greyman42]

That was kind of my point. If there's no risk in wearing a mask in an empty train carriage, or any other indoor setting with few people, the government should come out and say so. It would be quite easy to provide guidance that empty indoor settings are OK and crowded ones aren't, for example. At present we're all being expected to make up our own rules and potentially to disagree with the rules that others make up.

No one is asking you or anyone else to make up any rules. You just decide whether or not you wish to wear a mask and do so accordingly. End of matter.

 

[102 fan]

Its more than just the mask to be fair (I'm doubtful the masks do much of anything really, more of a placebo I reckon), but more frequent hand washing and cleaning procedures etc. Clearly have made some difference. I've usually had several colds in Feb and Sept, but diddly squat last year or this year, so something's working.

The 'vaccine' is working. Did everyone who had covid not wash their hands similarly? If stopping a virus was that easy, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now in.

I say vaccine, it's more of a suppressant.

 

[londonteacher]

I’d say that example shows the ludicrousness of expecting children and teachers to isolate at all. It’s causing goodness knows how much damage to education, with something like 400,000 children off at the moment, after months and months of disruption.

We know the virus poses a negligible risk to children and all teachers at risk will now have been vaccinated, so what on Earth purpose is served by asking schoolchildren to stay at home?

As a teacher, in my experience, I would say the damage to the education of the children really is minimal. I wouldn't always believe what the media is portraying regarding education.

 

[greyman42]

Its more than just the mask to be fair (I'm doubtful the masks do much of anything really, more of a placebo I reckon), but more frequent hand washing and cleaning procedures etc. Clearly have made some difference. I've usually had several colds in Feb and Sept, but diddly squat last year or this year, so something's working.

That may not have anything to do with masks.

 

[londonteacher]

In fairness that is what the poster suggested.

That may not have anything to do with masks.

 

[Darandio]

As a teacher, in my experience, I would say the damage to the education of the children really is minimal. I wouldn't always believe what the media is portraying regarding education.

As a parent of three children in school, in my experience, I completely disagree.

 

[londonteacher]

As a parent of three children in school, in my experience, I completely disagree.

I get that and respect your opinion. I can only talk about my experience. In recent assessments with my class (I teach Year 2) the pupils achieved the same/almost the same level of attainment as in 2019.

I accept that this is not the case in all areas. I can only apologise for the education of your children over this period and offer support if needed!

 

[greyman42]

Hopefully Javid won't be afraid to start sacking advisors if they go down the route of calling for more winter restrictions.

There will be no need to sack them if they give their advice to him in private. He simply says "thanks for your advice, i will take it into consideration." It is the ones that go shouting their mouths of in the media that are the problem, but whether he can do anything about them is another matter.

 

[Darandio]

My view on face masks in general is that they may help they may not, but they are not difficult to wear for most people apart from the awkward squad so why not wear one?

My view on face masks in general is that they are very helpful to the people profiting from them, that's about as far as their usefulness stretches. These same people are hoping it's now boom time every winter.

What they are causing is an ecological disaster, over a hundred billion of them discarded every month. It's funny because until Covid arrived we were constantly being preached to daily about things like plastic in our oceans, yet these are plastic based disposable masks with no guidelines for recycling and nobody seems to give a toss.

And don't get me started on testing kits. Plastic tests strips in plastic packaging, plastic sachets, plastic extraction tubes and plastic waste bags. These are used in their billions as well. As with many other things during the last 18 months we've set ourselves back decades.

 

[greyman42]

In fairness that is what the poster suggested.

Yes, my apologies.

 

[XAM2175]

Any establishment that tries to mandate mask wearing when the restrictions are lifted will be totally boycotted by me and I will send them a letter to ensure they know they are being boycotted.

More virtue signalling

Is this the new Lambada varient ?

What's after that - the Jitterbug? A railway variant would be the Locomotion.

They are named for letters of the Greek alphabet (so Lambda, not Lambada)

 

[Ianno87]

There will be no need to sack them if they give their advice to him in private. He simply says "thanks for your advice, i will take it into consideration." It is the ones that go shouting their mouths of in the media that are the problem, but whether he can do anything about them is another matter.

You can hardly sack advisers for advising, provided it is a truthful, neutral interpretation of the available evidence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

I get that and respect your opinion. I can only talk about my experience. In recent assessments with my class (I teach Year 2) the pupils achieved the same/almost the same level of attainment as in 2019.

I accept that this is not the case in all areas. I can only apologise for the education of your children over this period and offer support if needed!

Mine have done pretty well considering. Certainly been a bumpy ride this year...

Frankly, it's a tribute to their teachers.

 

[londonteacher]

Mine have done pretty well considering. Certainly been a bumpy ride this year...

It definitely has. The whole school community so that's staff, children and parents have made it/almost made it!

 

[Darandio]

I get that and respect your opinion. I can only talk about my experience. In recent assessments with my class (I teach Year 2) the pupils achieved the same/almost the same level of attainment as in 2019.

I accept that this is not the case in all areas. I can only apologise for the education of your children over this period and offer support if needed!

I agree that is won't be the same in all areas.

In the case of my Y3 child, his class is behind and the 'solution' at his school was to combine Y3 and Y4 last September but with two tiers of learning. Following the last lockdown that seems to have been thrown away and they have effectively moved all Y3 children on to more advanced Y4 work despite missing a huge chunk of Y3, it's too big of a jump and his frustration is clear to see.

My Y9 child isn't doing too bad.

My Y10 child has had a torrid time. The lockdowns and periods of isolation coupled with what was now clear to be poor home learning means she is in no way prepared for Y11 in September, none of the year are. This is their future and it's looking to be a complete failure.

 

[londonteacher]

In the case of my Y3 child, his class is behind and the 'solution' at his school was to combine Y3 and Y4 last September but with two tiers of learning. Following the last lockdown that seems to have been thrown away and they have effectively moved all Y3 children on to more advanced Y4 work despite missing a huge chunk of Y3, it's too big of a jump and his frustration is clear to see.

If there anything that could be of use to support let me know and I would be more than happy to help!

I only wish I could help your Year 10 child!

 

[Ianno87]

My Y10 child has had a torrid time. The lockdowns and periods of isolation coupled with what was now clear to be poor home learning means she is in no way prepared for Y11 in September, none of the year are. This is their future and it's looking to be a complete failure.

I know secondary school pupils have struggled, particularly from the reduction in social contact, particularly at the age range (mid-teenage years) when that's a massive thing to most.

 

[Darandio]

If there anything that could be of use to support let me know and I would be more than happy to help!

I only wish I could help your Year 10 child!

I'll bear that in mind, thanks. We did a hell of a lot during the periods away from school and i'm certain he would have been even further behind without it, it's still no substitute for being in school though.

 

[Philip]

People should not be judged negatively for continuing to wear face coverings after they're no longer required to be worn; that includes describing people who wear them as 'scared', 'virtue signalling' etc. It will be personal choice and should be respected either way.

 

[Mat17]

The 'vaccine' is working. Did everyone who had covid not wash their hands similarly? If stopping a virus was that easy, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now in.

I say vaccine, it's more of a suppressant.

I don't doubt the vaccine is helping in suppressing covid, but to be fair that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was commenting on the general fall in other colds/viruses amongst the population. Many of my work colleagues have made similar observations. When was the last time any of you had a cold (or if you have had one, have you noticed you've had less than most years?)

As to covid rates, the vaccine is clearly helping.

 

[Eyersey468]

Its more than just the mask to be fair (I'm doubtful the masks do much of anything really, more of a placebo I reckon), but more frequent hand washing and cleaning procedures etc. Clearly have made some difference. I've usually had several colds in Feb and Sept, but diddly squat last year or this year, so something's working.

To be honest I think a lot of masks/face coverings are little more than a placebo

 

[Darandio]

I know secondary school pupils have struggled, particularly from the reduction in social contact, particularly at the age range (mid-teenage years) when that's a massive thing to most.

That has been very difficult for her to the point that her mental health did hit rock bottom especially during the final lockdown. She isn't the only one and is actually still on a waiting list for an external agency that the school has brought on board to provide support. But the fact that we are now in July and she is still a number on the list shows how big the problem is and that is just one school!