Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[NorthKent1989]

At this point mask wearing should be a choice.

Half the population vaccinated, the restrictions should be lifted, though as ever the doom mongers that are SAGE are begging for an autumn lockdown

Lockdown may need to return in autumn and winter, warn Sage scientists

The scientific advisers said lifting restrictions may lead to more 'superspreader' events.

metro.co.uk

 

[py_megapixel]

I must admit, now that wearing a mask in a city centre doesn't attract bizarre looks anymore, I'll probably do so if only because it seems to mitigate the polluted feel of the air somewhat! (I can't wait for the majority of Vs to be of the E persuasion...)

 

[NorthOxonian]

I've only skimmed the last 70-odd posts that have come in this morning, so apologies if I'm repeating something already done over.

If this thread shows anything it shows that there are many different attitudes to mask-wearing. To me this highlights the foolishness of the government telling everyone they can make their own mind up about whether to do so. Effectively it means everyone should obtain and understand some complex medical arguments, some of which may be put out there by people with a vested interest. Most people aren't competent to do that, or just have better things to do.

If mask-wearing protects anyone it mostly protects people other than the wearer, so this shouldn't really be an issue of personal choice. As a minimum the government should provide clear guidance, even if it's not legally enforceable.

I think the main point about masks is because it's such a visible thing, it's always going to be extremely divisive.

From my point of view, I'm concerned about the different views on masks becoming entrenched - particularly among those who want to retain them. While I can put up with them temporarily, I am worried that for many years to come, there are going to be large numbers of people wearing them. I find face coverings deeply unsettling and do not want to live in a faceless society well after this virus ceases to pose a threat. You already have media outlets proclaiming that this is the next "culture war" - well I hope not!

 

[Failed Unit]

I do find it odd that you have the following.

Pub / club. Crammed in like sardines, shouting and mainly non vaccinated people - ok.

public transport. Mix of people, mainly say down, not talking much. Not ok.

I don’t get it. But be glad the masks are gone personally as I can blend in with the crowd.

 

[yorksrob]

I do find it odd that you have the following.

Pub / club. Crammed in like sardines, shouting and mainly non vaccinated people - ok.

public transport. Mix of people, mainly say down, not talking much. Not ok.

I don’t get it. But be glad the masks are gone personally as I can blend in with the crowd.

That is a good point, and to their credit, the Rail Delivery Group were making the point that public transport shouldn't be discriminated against in comparison to other indoor settings.

 

[Bishopstone]

This mask thing isn’t going to go away on July 19th, is it?

Just as Brexit rumbles on, in 2025 we’re still going to have partisans cruising the rail network, complaining their day out was ruined by an encounter with a stranger who was - or wasn’t - wearing a mask.

But if I’m wrong - what new grievance are the complainants going to move on to, on July 20th? The debate has been passionate, and once it’s settled the absence of argument is going to leave a big hole in lots of lives.

 

[Mag_seven]

though as ever the doom mongers that are SAGE are begging for an autumn lockdown

If we need to lockdown again to "protect the NHS" for a virus that is now endemic and for which we have vaccines then its clear the NHS is not fit for purpose and should be replaced with a health care system that is.

 

[yorksrob]

At this point mask wearing should be a choice.

Half the population vaccinated, the restrictions should be lifted, though as ever the doom mongers that are SAGE are begging for an autumn lockdown

Lockdown may need to return in autumn and winter, warn Sage scientists

The scientific advisers said lifting restrictions may lead to more 'superspreader' events.

metro.co.uk

Hopefully Javid won't be afraid to start sacking advisors if they go down the route of calling for more winter restrictions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

If we need to lockdown again to "protect the NHS" for a virus that is now endemic and for which we have vaccines then its clear the NHS is not fit for purpose and should be replaced with a health care system that is.

This is the crux of the issue.

 

[notlob.divad]

You seem to refuse to answer my question. But why should the people with medical exception be the ones singled out for abuse? (Like we have for the last year). By forcing everyone to wear them this is exactly what you are advocating. At least giving people the choice everyone is happy?

I have not been advocating forcing everyone to wear them. Please go back trhough my posts and read them with an open miond rather than jumping to conclussions.

Perhaps that is why I am refusing to answer your question, because you are ascribing to me a view that I do not hold.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have not been advocating forcing everyone to wear them. Please go back trhough my posts and read them with an open miond rather than jumping to conclussions.

Perhaps that is why I am refusing to answer your question, because you are ascribing to me a view that I do not hold.

You are constantly saying that if mask wearing is removed from public transport people that choose to wear them need protection. (From who I don’t know). I have asked why the current situation is ok where people that can’t wear them get attacked by vigilantes. You seem to advocate on your posts that we should keep wearing them so the ones that choose to feel more comfortable? But it is ok that the ones they can’t continue to get attack by vigilantes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

That is a good point, and to their credit, the Rail Delivery Group were making the point that public transport shouldn't be discriminated against in comparison to other indoor settings.

I hope they succeed. We are already seeing a lot of push back from people like Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan saying public transport is unsafe without them.(with no evidence to support it) But nothing from either about nightclubs / pubs which in my opinion pose the same risks.

 

[yorksrob]

I hope they succeed. We are already seeing a lot of push back from people like Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan saying public transport is unsafe without them.(with no evidence to support it) But nothing from either about nightclubs / pubs which in my opinion pose the same risks.

Indeed. And for the record, I know of plenty of pubs that are so big and open as to be reasonably safe as well.

 

[notlob.divad]

You seem to advocate on your posts that we should keep wearing them so the ones that choose to feel more comfortable? But it is ok that the ones they can’t continue to get attack by vigilantes.

Then you have completly misunderstood my posts.

 

[Failed Unit]

Then you have completly misunderstood my posts.

Fair enough. So you will be happy that on the 20th July I can sit comfortably on a train without a mask on and no fear of attack. As the uk gets back to normal. I had interpreted your posts as you wanted Masks to stay and people that can’t wear them refused access to public transport / shops etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

Indeed. And for the record, I know of plenty of pubs that are so big and open as to be reasonably safe as well.

I never felt under threat at any pub until the mask law came in. Not gone in one since. Be glad to return.

 

[notlob.divad]

Pub / club. Crammed in like sardines, shouting and mainly non vaccinated people - ok.

public transport. Mix of people, mainly say down, not talking much. Not ok.

It is down to what many on here are pushing for... Choice. You have the choice to enter or not enter a crowded bar or nightclub.
Many people in this world have no choice but to use public transport at busy times.

You have recently misunderstood several of my posts so i will spell it out nice and clear. this is not an advocation for continued mandation of masks. Simply an observation of why those two environments may be considered differently by some. I don't expect you to agree and neither do I care if you disagree. It is an observation, nothing more nothing less. I hope that is clear.

 

[bramling]

This mask thing isn’t going to go away on July 19th, is it?

Just as Brexit rumbles on, in 2025 we’re still going to have partisans cruising the rail network, complaining their day out was ruined by an encounter with a stranger who was - or wasn’t - wearing a mask.

But if I’m wrong - what new grievance are the complainants going to move on to, on July 20th? The debate has been passionate, and once it’s settled the absence of argument is going to leave a big hole in lots of lives.

I suspect that for some people the replacement “thing” is going to be hoping and/or begging for some form of autumn and winter lockdown.

Some people just can’t seem to get enough of it.

I can get the argument made by a few that “until a few more people are vaccinated to prevent another lockdown” (though I’m not convinced by the rationale behind it, as it would be throwing away any advantage gained by the summer), but I really cannot get my head round the people who simply seem to relish the thought of lockdown. One can only conclude its because their own lives are so unfulfilled they wish to restrict everyone else down to the same level.

Of course, there’s another reason why some people want this to continue for as long as possible, and that’s so they can continue to work from home.

 

[notlob.divad]

Fair enough. So you will be happy that on the 20th July I can sit comfortably on a train

You can do whatever you like. But if you happen to sit next to me, I may well get up and walk to a different part of the train or even get off and wait for the next. I hope you won't take offence at that.

 

[bramling]

You can do whatever you like. But if you happen to sit next to me, I may well get up and walk to a different part of the train or even get off and wait for the next. I hope you won't take offence at that.

Like most things, it depends on how it’s done.

I’m sure few would have any issue if the above was accompanied with a polite “sorry, no offence intended, but I’m still quite uncomfortable being around others”. By contrast, storming off and making a scene is less likely to be well received.

 

[notlob.divad]

Like most things, it depends on how it’s done.

I’m sure few would have any issue if the above was accompanied with a polite “sorry, no offence intended, but I’m still quite uncomfortable being around others”. By contrast, storming off and making a scene is less likely to be well received.

If the sitting next to me was done with a polite "do you mind" as I was taught was common manners, then of course I would respond with reciprocate the politeness. However if someone simply took the seat without a by your leave, then I would be unlikely to make any comment at all as I repositioned myself in a more comfortable surrounding, and minded my own business.

 

[XAM2175]

At what point will the "I'm putting my mask in the bin!" virtue signalling end?

 

[bramling]

If the sitting next to me was done with a polite "do you mind" as I was taught was common manners, then of course I would respond with reciprocate the politeness. However if someone simply took the seat without a by your leave, then I would be unlikely to make any comment at all as I repositioned myself in a more comfortable surrounding, and minded my own business.

It perhaps doesn’t help that the government / transport operators have never really addressed this issue, beyond a minority who at one point had selected seats taped off.

I must admit I do find it irritating when someone comes and sits very nearby on an otherwise very empty train (it seems there’s a cohort of people who *must* have *their* preferred seat at all cost), however this has been a thing since the beginning of time, it isn’t a new thing.

 

[Failed Unit]

You can do whatever you like. But if you happen to sit next to me, I may well get up and walk to a different part of the train or even get off and wait for the next. I hope you won't take offence at that.

No I won’t. I will be happy in fact as I get 2 seats. At least I can use public transport again without the fear of getting attacked. I currently can’t use it because of the current lack of respect for medical exemptions. So I have in effect being forced off it.

 

[py_megapixel]

Moving seats in a train is not exactly a new thing and it's easy to do tactfully. Simply get up and walk into the next coach without saying anything and any reasonable passenger will assume you're just looking for the toilet or something.

At what point will the "I'm putting my mask in the bin!" virtue signalling end?

It's not so long ago that people would have been condemned for throwing away large amounts of single-use plastic-containing objects!

 

[Failed Unit]

At what point will the "I'm putting my mask in the bin!" virtue signalling end?

I think some people will struggle with the fact we are not forced to wear masks (just as I have with the forced wearing of them). I suspect a lot of people will be too scared to leave the house. The governments message of if you get within 2 meters of someone you will die was a little strong. Hopefully normally will return soon and if that means people want to go out only in a biohazard suit that is up to them.

 

[NorthKent1989]

You can do whatever you like. But if you happen to sit next to me, I may well get up and walk to a different part of the train or even get off and wait for the next. I hope you won't take offence at that.

Don’t you think that’s rather an irrational response to a virus that will be with us forever?

 

[nlogax]

From both sides of the masks / restrictions argument here there's a really grotty, unhealthy focus on 'winning' and absolutism above which seems to completely ignore myriad nuances and subtleties of the various issues Covid has invoked over the last eighteen months. It's tiring.

 

[notlob.divad]

Don’t you think that’s rather an irrational response to a virus that will be with us forever?

Who say's it is specifically in response to a virus? I simply value my own space. Just like pulling a trolley behind rather than pushing in front, specifically in a checkout queue to avoid people crowding behind me.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think sadly this is the biggest legacy of COVID. We will sadly get more people that dare not leave the house (agoraphobia is it). Hopefully the mental health support can cope.

the world is so focused on COVID, that for some age groups they forget they have a higher chance statistically of dying in a car crash. We push for 0 COVID. We would never dream of pushing for 0 accidents on the roads fir example.

 

[nlogax]

We push for 0 COVID. We would never dream of pushing for 0 accidents on the roads fir example.

I don't think anyone in the UK is pushing for zero covid now. Ignoring an extremely tiny but vocal minority on social media of course.

 

[duncanp]

If we need to lockdown again to "protect the NHS" for a virus that is now endemic and for which we have vaccines then its clear the NHS is not fit for purpose and should be replaced with a health care system that is.

Tut, tut.

Don't you realise that the NHS (GC) can do no wrong, and that worship of the NHS (GC) is the new national religion, so making such statements is tantamount to heresy?

As Henry VIII would say, "..off with your head..."

 

[Dent]

You are not the only one. Having advocated a slight further delay to easing restrictions...

If I recall correctly, you were not advocating a slight delay, you were advocating delaying right up to late August.