Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[DelayRepay]

Arguably, it has (like it or not) become normal over the last 12 month. That's why claims of proclaiming the death of the face mask are, at this stage, premature.

I do, however, look forward to the day when they are no longer commonplace (just not yet).

They are only commonplace because they are required by law.

The day before the mandate came into effect, some people were wearing them but by no means everyone. My experience was that the majority were not wearing them until the law took effect, but obviously this is just my experience and may have been different elsewhere.

 

[notlob.divad]

You would, I assume, respect my choice to smear myself with marmite whilst at the same time find my reason for doing so ridiculous!

I would, but if you just said "I like to smear myself with marmite", whilst my first thought might be - Why? it isn't something I would ask you. (unless we were particularly good friends)

Your reasons for doing so are really none of my business.

 

[Failed Unit]

It is interesting that the debate in a lot of papers seems to be about masks on public transport. Removing them will bring a wave bigger than we have seen before Etc. (I still think they should trial mask only coaches - see if people vote with their feet)

but considering that the young are predominantly not vaccinated. Night clubs, pubs etc can be as full as a tube in rush hour. I wonder why the debate is still focused so heavily on public transport?

yes I know vaccinations don’t stop COVID spreading but the same argument applies. I go clubbing and then visit granny and kill her. (By giving her COVID - as per government adverts last year)

 

[birchesgreen]

Supposing I said to you "I like to smear myself with marmite to protect myself from being attacked by elephants"?

Does it work?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==

I go clubbing visit granny and kill her.

Probably best rephrase that

 

[big_rig]

It is interesting that the debate in a lot of papers seems to be about masks on public transport. Removing them will bring a wave bigger than we have seen before Etc. (I still think they should trial mask only coaches - see if people vote with their feet)

but considering that the young are predominantly not vaccinated. Night clubs, pubs etc can be as full as a tube in rush hour. I wonder why the debate is still focused so heavily on public transport?

yes I know vaccinations don’t stop COVID spreading but the same argument applies. I go clubbing visit granny and kill her.

It is the usual anti-PT bias. It is still seen as ‘yucky’ by many. Out of interest I went and looked up the mask rules in New Zealand, where they have a covid elimination policy. They require masks on public transport and nowhere else even at their ‘level zero’ where nobody in the country has the virus. The only official reason I could find for this was a news article where a ‘public health official’ said ‘wearing them on buses prepares people for wearing them in wider situations if there is spread of the virus’ which has to be the dumbest thing I can think of.

I also have to laugh at the ‘courtesy’ argument for mandating them. Can I be fined £6,400 for not holding the door open for somebody? Typically courteous acts don’t need a fine of several months pay to enforce them

 

[LowLevel]

Actually, re. the sunflower lanyard, I think the exact opposite! A great many more people are now aware that it signifies some kind of difference from the norm, whereas prior to Covid most people had never heard of it. If anything that increased awareness should make life easier for those who do have hidden disabilities going forward.

The mistake some people (including many train guards sadly!) have made over the last few months is assuming that *everyone* who is exempt must have a “medical exemption”, or a hidden disability, which of course doesn’t necessarily follow (albeit there will be a significant overlap of exemption with hidden disabilities and medical conditions).



Sorry to hear that and hopefully these latest developments will mark a turning point for you. I completely agree: the balance has been skewed in one direction for far too long, mostly due to media fear mongering and the inability of the general public to assess risk.

The issue is more related to people assuming that everyone who wears a sunflower lanyard has some kind of issue related to mask wearing. Plenty of people had never come across them before and certainly not used them until for whatever reason they decided to wear one related to not being able or not wishing, it doesn't really matter which, to wear a face covering reinforced by idiots who got it into their heads that if you didn't have a lanyard you must not have a valid exemption and should be subject to some huffing and puffing or worse.

It was summed up nicely by one of our RPO colleagues - she has always worn a sunflower lanyard and gets really pissed off with the constant stream of questions about "why are you wearing a mask, you don't have to you know, you're exempt". She isn't exempt and doesn't claim an exemption - she has a physical health problem that comes and goes which on occasion when it flares up renders her a bit slower than you'd expect to look at her and means some help reaching for her shopping is useful from shop staff.

The need to be open minded about these lanyards and kill the association with masks entirely is what needs to happen.

 

[Class 317]

I completely understand why people who are vulnerable, live with or work with vulnerable people will have concerns about the final restrictions going.

These concerns are likely to cause many to suffer additional mental health issues. Like throughout the pandemic so far, mental health issues have affected different groups for different reasons at different times.

All we can do is support those who need it. I think respect, understanding and thought for the feelings of others are needed.

Please look out for those who need support.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The rule change on July 19 (if confirmed next week) only applies to England so far.
Grant Shapps has yet to pronounce on transport, and that may generate more confusion.
Wales and Scotland will be much more reluctant to lift all social distancing restrictions, so we may face different rules across the UK (NI is different again).

Personally I think the government still has a lot to do to persuade people that lifting restrictions with escalating case numbers is at all wise or logical.
If the new critical metric is the number of hospitalisations rather than cases, they had better improve the presentation of those statistics.
The BBC (and others) don't help by painting case numbers in a giant font size.

Boris's stupid line of reasoning ("If we can't lift restrictions this summer, when will we be able to lift them?") reminds me of W.S,Gilbert's ultimate non-sequitur:
"If a man can't disinherit his own unborn son, whose unborn son can he disinherit?" (Ruddigore).

 

[yorkie]

Personally I think the government still has a lot to do to persuade people that lifting restrictions with escalating case numbers is at all wise or logical.

And what would you propose that is wise and logical? Wait until Autumn to ease restrictions?

If the new critical metric is the number of hospitalisations rather than cases, they had better improve the presentation of those statistics.
The BBC (and others) don't help by painting case numbers in a giant font size.

I agree we need to end our obsession with 'Covid hospitalisations' which are a very small fraction of overall deahospitalisationshs.

Boris's stupid line of reasoning ("If we can't lift restrictions this summer, when will we be able to lift them?") reminds me of W.S,Gilbert's ultimate non-sequitur:
"If a man can't disinherit his own unborn son, whose unborn son can he disinherit?" (Ruddigore).

I refer you to posts by @yorksrob & @Dent above

 

[Ianno87]

They are only commonplace because they are required by law.

The day before the mandate came into effect, some people were wearing them but by no means everyone. My experience was that the majority were not wearing them until the law took effect, but obviously this is just my experience and may have been different elsewhere.

"The day before" argument isn't comparable. That day, people weren't used to them, nor (in many cases) had people even bought any to wear by then.

From my observation, when masks in shops were announced last year around a week before implementation, there was a notable gradual uptick in wearing them - maybe increase from 20% to 50% or so wearing them, before the legislation took effect.

I cite previous examples of where people wear them in bizarre situations when not legally obliged to (in their own car, gardening, cycling etc.)

What I think will happen is a gradual reduction in people wearing them over time, but it won't be a "big bang" on 19th July.

 

[westv]

If the new critical metric is the number of hospitalisations rather than cases, they had better improve the presentation of those statistics.
The BBC (and others) don't help by painting case numbers in a giant font size.

Hasn't the critical metric always been hospitalisations? Stay home, protect the NHS , save lives etc.

 

[yorksrob]

Such as by wearing a face mask around those who are still nervous....? That's courteous

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2021 ==



Regularly change the cloth, as you would a tissue.

That won't make it any less and uncomfortable experience I'm afraid.

I won't be doing it when not mandated.

You might not, but there are plenty of people who will have an issue with people who continue to wear them.

Contrary to what many people on here think, I am quite looking forward to the day I no longer legally have to wear a mask, where it is free choice for me to do so. I suspect that day will be a little longer where I live than there in England. However I will be quite keen to keep hold of it, and am highly likely to wear it for most of my planned trip to England in the Autumn. I am fully vaccinated have no serious underlying health conditions and many on here would say no reason to wear it. But I will, because I don't see it as an inconvenience or an afront to my dignity. The pandemic has opened my eyes to a much wider array of particulate inhalation that we are subjected to on a daily basis. From the clouds of smog that rapidly dissapated from our urban environments during the first traffic free lockdown, to the poor level of filter of the re-circulation of air in modern air conditioning units. I have always been a person who values the fresh air of the mountains and forests, but a variety of things that have come to light during the pandemic have made me realise just how much damage modern urban living can do to the human body.

There may well be, but that is not a good enough reason to mandate them I'm afraid.

 

[notlob.divad]

There may well be, but that is not a good enough reason to mandate them I'm afraid.

I am not asking for them to be, all I was asking for was for some protection for those who choose to. Too many people will see the removal of the mandate to wear them, as a ban against wearing them, I am afraid. Whilst those particular people may not visit this forum, they exist and will certainly make their presence known.

 

[jumble]

According to the BBC website today, England will move on 19th July into a period without legal restrictions where the public will have to exercise "personal responsibility" including on face masks, the housing secretary has said. Robert Jenrick told the BBC's Andrew Marr that people would "come to different conclusions" over masks, but he trusted people "to exercise good judgment".

He told Sky News he would choose not to wear a face mask.

Covid-19: Masks will become personal choice, says Robert Jenrick

Robert Jenrick says mask laws in England could go but Scotland says there will be an "ongoing need".

www.bbc.co.uk

Would such a move by Government bring about a change of policy by transport operators, restaurants and pubs, theatres and other indoor venues, or will they still try to insist on masks and social distancing? Just staying with transport, do we expect train companies to make mask-wearing voluntary, make all train seats available and remove compulsory seat reservation where it has been introduced?

I have learned from a YouGov survey that 71% of people want facemasks to stay mandatory on Public Transport
What fantastic news because if the same people actually do it presumably all these people would wear a mask voluntarily ( as well as some who would wear a mask even if they disagree with it being mandatory) and therefore we will not be in much of a different place on July 19 to where we are today

 

[DelayRepay]

"The day before" argument isn't comparable. That day, people weren't used to them, nor (in many cases) had people even bought any to wear by then.

...

What I think will happen is a gradual reduction in people wearing them over time, but it won't be a "big bang" on 19th July.

I more or less agree with you. I've already noticed a reduction in the number of people wearing masks. I think there will be a big reduction on 20 July, but not a 'big bang'. I would anticipate that by August, mask wearers will be very much the minority, but we'll have to wait and see.

I for one will not be wearing one as a matter of course from 20 July - although I will probably keep one in my bag for a while just in case I need it for some reason.

 

[Failed Unit]

I am not asking for them to be, all I was asking for was for some protection for those who choose to. Too many people will see the removal of the mandate to wear them, as a ban against wearing them, I am afraid. Whilst those particular people may not visit this forum, they exist and will certainly make their presence known.

But surely this protection already exists? As I have said people with medical reasons not to wear them are getting assulted in supermarkets / on public transport. this will not change just the victims May. It is wrong and needs to be punished but intimidation is around now for non wearers.

 

[DelayRepay]

Personally I think the government still has a lot to do to persuade people that lifting restrictions with escalating case numbers is at all wise or logical.

And what would you propose that is wise and logical? Wait until Autumn to ease restrictions?

I think the government's proposal is wise and logical, but I also think they have a lot to do to persuade a large number of people that it's the right approach. Unfortunately, wheeling out the scientists to explain why removing restrictions now is sensible won't work, as 'experts' in general have lost credibility.

But I hope we will see efforts over the next couple of weeks to reassure those that are worried, that the world after 19 July will still be safe.

Whilst I am glad to see the back of masks, I can see why some people are concerned, given that for the last year we've been told by both 'experts' and politicians from all parties that we must wear them to prevent the spread of Covid.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Supposing I said to you "I like to smear myself with marmite to protect myself from being attacked by elephants"?

You would, I assume, respect my choice to smear myself with marmite whilst at the same time find my reason for doing so ridiculous!

Does it work?

Well I've not been attacked by an elephant yet so clearly it does!

 

[Class 33]

Providing face masks in shops and public transport does indeed become optional on 19th July, I myself expect that the number of people wearing them will be very few and far between. I could be wrong. But let's see. I look forward to seeing what happens with this.

When I was in town yesterday, I had noticed a surprising reduction on the number of people wearing them in the indoor shopping centre(The Galleries, Bristol) and in the shops themselves. On the lead up to 19th July, I think the number of people wearing them will reduce further.

 

[43066]

The issue is more related to people assuming that everyone who wears a sunflower lanyard has some kind of issue related to mask wearing. Plenty of people had never come across them before and certainly not used them until for whatever reason they decided to wear one related to not being able or not wishing, it doesn't really matter which, to wear a face covering reinforced by idiots who got it into their heads that if you didn't have a lanyard you must not have a valid exemption and should be subject to some huffing and puffing or worse.

It was summed up nicely by one of our RPO colleagues - she has always worn a sunflower lanyard and gets really pissed off with the constant stream of questions about "why are you wearing a mask, you don't have to you know, you're exempt". She isn't exempt and doesn't claim an exemption - she has a physical health problem that comes and goes which on occasion when it flares up renders her a bit slower than you'd expect to look at her and means some help reaching for her shopping is useful from shop staff.

The need to be open minded about these lanyards and kill the association with masks entirely is what needs to happen.

Thanks for clarifying, that’s a fair point.

The whole situation underlines why a policy of deliberately inducing the population to believe that anyone not wearing a covering is “selfish”, or a danger to those around them, has had appalling unintended consequences for many people, particularly those in vulnerable groups.

I am not asking for them to be, all I was asking for was for some protection for those who choose to. Too many people will see the removal of the mandate to wear them, as a ban against wearing them, I am afraid. Whilst those particular people may not visit this forum, they exist and will certainly make their presence known.

Nobody will interpret the removal of a requirement to wear them as a ban on wearing them, unless they lack some critical facilities.

The number in this category will be far, far smaller than the number of judgemental idiots who have made life difficult for those who cannot wear face coverings over the last few months.

 

[Dent]

I am not asking for them to be, all I was asking for was for some protection for those who choose to.

What "protection" are you asking for?

Too many people will see the removal of the mandate to wear them, as a ban against wearing them, I am afraid. Whilst those particular people may not visit this forum, they exist and will certainly make their presence known.

Where has anyone said that the removal of the mandate is a ban against wearing them? That sounds like yet another strawman.

 

[Mat17]

My worry about masks and distancing remaining compulsory is more long term disadvantages.

Sure it's great that colds, flus and many other nasty viruses seem to have decreased/disappeared (at least for now). But what will happen to our immune systems if not challenged by such things, does general immunity become less prevalent and people more susceptible to future viruses.

There was already some mention of reduced immune systems in pre-schoolers because they haven't been mixing with their peers. Long term this could be more of a problem.

 

[brad465]

Back on topic, this is decent article, especially by BBC standards:

Why it's time to think differently about Covid

The virus is not the deadly threat it was, but the plan to lift all restrictions is not without risk.

www.bbc.co.uk

Nick Triggle is one of few journalists who has written articles acknowledging a balance of risks on this matter.

 

[duncanp]

Obviously nothing is without risk.

However, there is a sound reasoning behind the easing of restrictions in two weeks time, rather than later. It will be better to go ahead when the schools are on holiday, rather than when they're back and we're going into winter.

Has anyone mentioned that to Nicola Sturgeon, who is planning to release all restrictions in Scotland one week before the schools return for the new term?

 

[liam456]

If so much of the British public are scared enough to continue wanting to wear masks, why not..... continue to wear a mask?

People seem to be acting as if masks are now forbidden from the 19th. And if 71% of the public still want to, then great, 71% of faces will still be covered?

Mask? Worn.
Lives? Saved.
COVID? Defeated.
((((((Virtue? Signalled.)))))

EDIT: Or just wear an FFP3 mask, which protects yourself rather than everyone else needing to.

 

[Class 33]

That YouGov poll saying 71%(or was it 77%?) of voters want mandatory face mask rules to remain, I don't believe that is atall representative of what the country think. We'll see come 19th July. I think no way will there be anywhere near 70 odd percent of people still wearing these ridiculous pieces of cloth!

 

[notlob.divad]

That YouGov poll saying 71%(or was it 77%?) of voters want mandatory face mask rules to remain, I don't believe that is atall representative of what the country think. We'll see come 19th July. I think no way will there be anywhere near 70 odd percent of people still wearing these ridiculous pieces of cloth!

That isn't what the question asked though. The question was should they remain mandatory, not will you continue wearing one if they are not mandatory.

So of course you are going to end up with different results.

 

[Bikeman78]

Railways must respond quickly if demands picks up quickly as its not acceptable to have crammed trains when the full timetable isn't running or short formed trains although im sure passengers will soon take to social media to embarrass operators into responding.

I admire your optimism! How much spare stock do the TOCs have? There's none in Wales for sure. The 745s are hit and miss covering the existing work let alone any more. There are seven spare 317s and five 379s but everything on that side is eight car already. They could reinstate the 1707/1737/1807 Cambridge trains. I've no idea how many spare 321s there are. GWR and LNER will struggle to turn out any extra sets with the ongoing IET problems although there is possibly scope for more use of 387s or class 91s.

 

[37424]

https://twitter.com/bloodcancer_uk/status/1412093670820651011?s=21

Are people with blood cancer avoiding all pubs and restaurants then, if it is so dangerous to be around unmasked people? Honest question. Somehow I feel not.

I have been to the pub for a meal outside once in the last 16 months and yes once all restrictions are removed I wont be going to any Pubs or Restaurants while infections are on the increase, obviously I cannot speak for other people nut expect many will be cautious.

 

[liam456]

That isn't what the question asked though. The question was should they remain mandatory, not will you continue wearing one if they are not mandatory.

So of course you are going to end up with different results.

Who would want them to be mandatory, but wouldn't make the choice to wear them themselves?