Covid Redundancies?

[Tom Quinne]

People seem to forget the railway is bigger than drivers, what about all the PWay and S&T teams who are covering huge areas all working overtime to carry out maintenance and attend to faults?

The training periods for S&T tech is probably longer than a driver.

 

[donpoku]

People seem to forget the railway is bigger than drivers, what about all the PWay and S&T teams who are covering huge areas all working overtime to carry out maintenance and attend to faults?

The training periods for S&T tech is probably longer than a driver.

This.

In fact without these fundamental staff the railway will be dead.

 

[Bald Rick]

What follows is very much a personal view, based on simple logic.

The railway has to save money, to offset the huge reduction in income. A majority of railway expenditure is on salaries. Jobs will have to go. Whether this is though recruitment freezes and ‘natural wastage’ or redundancies remains to be seen. But there have already been redundancies, and not just in the open access companies.

 

[hiall]

Unfortunately I do think we will see redundancies across the entire workforce at TOCs throughout the UK. In Scotland it has been said they are looking to cut a quarter of the services for at least the next couple of years. If this does happen the question is will these services ever return?
It does not look good moving forward.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately I do think we will see redundancies across the entire workforce at TOCs throughout the UK. In Scotland it has been said they are looking to cut a quarter of the services for at least the next couple of years. If this does happen the question is will these services ever return?

I'd also ask if they should. Short trains on excessive frequencies have been a problem for years. Do we really want to go back there?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

What follows is very much a personal view, based on simple logic.

The railway has to save money, to offset the huge reduction in income. A majority of railway expenditure is on salaries. Jobs will have to go. Whether this is though recruitment freezes and ‘natural wastage’ or redundancies remains to be seen. But there have already been redundancies, and not just in the open access companies.

How do you think Network Rail will fair?

 

[Bald Rick]

How do you think Network Rail will fair?

Same as everyone else.

 

[RedYellowGreen]

Unfortunately I do think we will see redundancies across the entire workforce at TOCs throughout the UK. In Scotland it has been said they are looking to cut a quarter of the services for at least the next couple of years. If this does happen the question is will these services ever return?
It does not look good moving forward.

I'm not saying we're at the tail end of this pandemic but surely TOCs would have acted by now? Assessments continue. Interviews continue. Trainees continue to start jobs and training.

 

[T-Karmel]

Yes hiall. You appear to revel in telling everybody that. You carry on.

I'm not saying we're at the tail end of this pandemic but surely TOCs would have acted by now? Assessments continue. Interviews continue. Trainees continue to start jobs and training.

They weren't allowed to cut jobs under last 6 months contracts, were they? And now they've been told they'll be nationalised by mid next year.

TOCs were waiting with decisions because they had hands tied up. Government came back to them in September and... did not untie them. But it doesn't mean they won't implement changes sooner or later.

 

[Bald Rick]

but surely TOCs would have acted by now?

TOCs are doing precisely what Government want them to at the moment.

 

[43066]

People seem to forget the railway is bigger than drivers, what about all the PWay and S&T teams who are covering huge areas all working overtime to carry out maintenance and attend to faults?

The training periods for S&T tech is probably longer than a driver.

Everyone knows drivers are the only true railwaymen .

On a serious note jobs where the training is lengthy and expensive, and where overtime is readily available (ie the people doing the job are in short supply), are going to be the safest place to be.

Sadly the rail gourmet folks where I am vanished in March or April. I’m led to believe they were on very poor Ts and Cs and of course were employed by RG, not the TOC, so strictly speaking aren’t an example of job losses from a TOC.

 

[LowLevel]

Everyone knows drivers are the only true railwaymen .

On a serious note jobs where the training is lengthy and expensive, and where overtime is readily available (ie the people doing the job are in short supply), are going to be the safest place to be.

Sadly the rail gourmet folks where I am vanished in March or April. I’m led to believe they were on very poor Ts and Cs and of course were employed by RG, not the TOC, so strictly speaking aren’t an example of job losses from a TOC.

Believe it or not the RG hosts are still on furlough and haven't been dispensed with. The service centres are obviously still open to supply the IC trains with stock and cleaning supplies.

 

[LittleAH]

I know that TPE repurposed some RG staff for extra cleaning and there's new jobs going out for cleaning jobs too. So there are some opportunities out there.

I think most drivers/conductors are safe too given their skill levels and the cost to train them. But get used to no pay rises for the foreseeable future across the board

 

[43066]

Believe it or not the RG hosts are still on furlough and haven't been dispensed with. The service centres are obviously still open to supply the IC trains with stock and cleaning supplies.

I’m very pleased indeed to hear that.

I know some of the customer hosts have been worried (albeit they are directly employed by the TOC). They were redeployed to sanitisation and gateline duties during the worst of it, but have been back on trains recently handing out snack bags. What might happen going forward is anyone’s guess, of course.

 

[omnicity4659]

Whether this is though recruitment freezes and ‘natural wastage’ or redundancies remains to be seen.

LNER are on a recruitment freeze, they have been since April, apart from management roles.

The majority of the candidates from recruitment in March were very recently informed that the vacancies were withdrawn.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Everyone knows drivers are the only true railwaymen .

On a serious note jobs where the training is lengthy and expensive, and where overtime is readily available (ie the people doing the job are in short supply), are going to be the safest place to be.

Sadly the rail gourmet folks where I am vanished in March or April. I’m led to believe they were on very poor Ts and Cs and of course were employed by RG, not the TOC, so strictly speaking aren’t an example of job losses from a TOC.

Talking of RG staff, are GWR still using them on the Portsmouth route?

 

[43066]

Talking of RG staff, are GWR still using them on the Portsmouth route?

Can’t help you there I’m afraid mate.
I don’t think I’ve been on a GWR train in the last ten years!

 

[bramling]

Everyone knows drivers are the only true railwaymen .

On a serious note jobs where the training is lengthy and expensive, and where overtime is readily available (ie the people doing the job are in short supply), are going to be the safest place to be.

Sadly the rail gourmet folks where I am vanished in March or April. I’m led to believe they were on very poor Ts and Cs and of course were employed by RG, not the TOC, so strictly speaking aren’t an example of job losses from a TOC.

It will be the case that the longer the training period the more secure the role is. Likewise those who are able to be a bit flexible as to location may also find themselves with a greater range of alternative options.

I just don't see widespread operational redundancies - the massive impact on training this year means everywhere must already be at the point where they have a smaller headcount of fully-productive staff than this time last year. There's the big risk that if they slash timetables then if demand returns there won't be the staff to put things back as they were.

It's all very well people repeating the same line about how fewer longer trains is better, however in most of the south-east we passed that point years ago, and have been running as many trains as possible at the full length allowed, with a small fortune being spent on increasing lengths precisely because the infrastructure is already saturated. Despite the current situation virtually every Kings Lynn service is going to be lengthened to 8 cars in December, so someone must feel there's demand there.

 

[Economist]

I think most drivers/conductors are safe too given their skill levels and the cost to train them. But get used to no pay rises for the foreseeable future across the board

Any union worth it's salt will demand terms and conditions where rises are not available. I wonder if ASLEF will in some cases be able to get it's long sought after 32 hour week?

I wonder what will happen if the DfT demands Sundays fully inside pretty much everywhere but won't offer anything in return.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any union worth it's salt will demand terms and conditions where rises are not available. I wonder if ASLEF will in some cases be able to get it's long sought after 32 hour week?

I wonder what will happen if the DfT demands Sundays fully inside pretty much everywhere but won't offer anything in return.

Nobody is going to be in a position to demand anything work-wise for the next few years. If they do, they won't get it. In any industry.

 

[hiall]

I'm not saying we're at the tail end of this pandemic but surely TOCs would have acted by now? Assessments continue. Interviews continue. Trainees continue to start jobs and training.

Passenger numbers decimated, no income, services cut by 25% for foreseeable, high staffing levels. You can read between the lines here surely?

EVERY employee must be on their toes as we move into the new year. Their are many at depots that would take a VR and I would hope that would cover the numbers they need to shift to satisfy their needs without going for CR.

Maybe it is just panic stations a little amongst the staff but it would be prudent to put contingency plan in just incase.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Just out of curiosity - what have LNER and Avanti done with their on-board chefs?

They must be surplus to requirement at present considering everyone wears face masks on trains and there is no food/meal consumption.

CJ

 

[dk1]

I wonder what will happen if the DfT demands Sundays fully inside pretty much everywhere but won't offer anything in return.

Then it won't happen.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Passenger numbers decimated, no income, services cut by 25% for foreseeable, high staffing levels. You can read between the lines here surely?

EVERY employee must be on their toes as we move into the new year. Their are many at depots that would take a VR and I would hope that would cover the numbers they need to shift to satisfy their needs without going for CR.

Maybe it is just panic stations a little amongst the staff but it would be prudent to put contingency plan in just incase.

I agree at there will be a considerable number of long in service staff who would happily take a VR then a early pension.

That’s across every grade, not just traincrew - front line staff have worked in the main throughout this situation, putting our health and our families health at risk.

Our reward, or thanks?

Threats of Redundancy, pay freezes and a race to the bottom of our terms of service.

Unfortunately the operators in the South, the London tied commuter operations are going to be hit worst unfortunately. Ironically operators like WC, EC, GWR and XC will probably be least effected as leisure travel slowly (very slowly) returns.

I heard yesterday that GWR intend to restore 100% (Dec 19) service level in Dec 20.

 

[mstrwvr]

I've read this thread with great interest, as I have been offered a Trainee Conductor post with TFW, and have been given a start date for the end of November.

Given the current climate, I am a little nervous about changing career. But I've spoken with a number of TFW conductors, and the conductor managers who interviewed me, and they all assured me they're not worried. Add to that TFW are still currently recruiting to the post for start dates in 2021, and I think that making the move is a risk worth taking.

 

[387star]

Talking of RG staff, are GWR still using them on the Portsmouth route?

Possibly back in November

 

[dk1]

Some TOCs are resuming the 2020 pay talks next weeks. Any increases will be back dated to April.

 

[marty1977]

Some TOCs are resuming the 2020 pay talks next weeks. Any increases will be back dated to April.

Both Avanti and TPE have said there will be no pay rise for this year. I expect that to be the case across the board. Hardly surprising but in the grand scheme of things I have no issue with it.

 

[dk1]

Both Avanti and TPE have said there will be no pay rise for this year. I expect that to be the case across the board. Hardly surprising but in the grand scheme of things I have no issue with it.

Me neither. It had all gone very quiet until this month.

 

[RedYellowGreen]

Passenger numbers decimated, no income, services cut by 25% for foreseeable, high staffing levels. You can read between the lines here surely?

EVERY employee must be on their toes as we move into the new year. Their are many at depots that would take a VR and I would hope that would cover the numbers they need to shift to satisfy their needs without going for CR.

Maybe it is just panic stations a little amongst the staff but it would be prudent to put contingency plan in just incase.

People have applications in, assessment days approaching, interviews imminent, start dates pending. People are in very vulnerable mental states over what's happening. They need to be giving it their best not worrying themselves.