Covid Redundancies?

[TheSel]

Well they have the triple lock to thank for that (State Pension will always go up by the greater of 2.5%, inflation measured by CPI or average increase in wages)! At the same time as working age benefits were slashed or frozen and, when first introduced, in the midst of wider government austerity and general economic sluggishness which meant that the first time earnings out performed the other two measures wasn't until the 2016/17 uprating (the measure having been introduced in 2011/12)! It's almost sacrilegious to say but Pensioners have been fairly well protected over the last ten years from a lot of the financial fall out. So unless there's a radical U-turn (can't be ruled out by this shower of course) they'll be guaranteed at least 2.5% next year as well!

Only the ones that survive Covid-19, though. Given that this is an age group disproportionately adversely affected by this dreadful illness, you might well find that the total cost to the state of providing pensions will actually be lower next year.

 

[43066]

Only the ones that survive Covid-19, though. Given that this is an age group disproportionately adversely affected by this dreadful illness, you might well find that the total cost to the state of providing pensions will actually be lower next year.

The vast majority of people who catch Covid survive, across all age groups.

 

[Fokx]

I know that TPE repurposed some RG staff for extra cleaning and there's new jobs going out for cleaning jobs too. So there are some opportunities out there.

I think most drivers/conductors are safe too given their skill levels and the cost to train them. But get used to no pay rises for the foreseeable future across the board

Some have also moved to duties such as Dispatch and are hoping it’s permanent.

TPE catering via RG allegedly resumes Mid-November once staff have been trained on new methods of working

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2020 ==

I don't think any company in the entire UK will give a pay rise this year, and many will have cuts.

Unless you’re an MP apparently!

 

[387star]

Though not directly covid related there is a renewed push for driverless tube trains (see The Financial Times) although I've read elsewhere that the numbers don't stack up. Boris wants TFL to look into driverless as a condition for receiving long term funding. There is also a want by Grant Shapps to reform TFL worker's pensions.

 

[bramling]

Agreed. Although they’re parasites, not workers, in my book!

The current lot certainly are, on pretty much all sides.

It’s a pretty sad state of affairs - at this moment I would not want to vote for *any* of the parties. I’m disgusted with the Conservatives on several fronts (though I think a lot of that is down to Al Johnson and his dubious choice of cabinet), but equally my heart tells me that the rest would probably be worse in many ways. Having said that if there was an election now I’d probably vote Labour, never thought I’d be saying that, as I’m that uncomfortable with Johnson’s leadership.

It bugs me, as I just don’t have the confidence in this government to negotiate the ship through this storm. We’re now already hearing muttering about things like railway pensions falling under the spotlight. The final nail in Johnson’s coffin for me was the comments about driverless trains a couple of months back - completely crass in the middle of this pandemic when that group of people have generally bent over backwards to keep things moving. To be honest if Johnson is going to be that crass about others then one starts to think that the sympathy and best wishes directed towards him during his own brush with a Covid were perhaps misguided, that’s how peeved I am with him.

Fortunately it seems likely Al himself will be redundant before many railway staff might.

 

[Mat17]

but until there is a serious incident involving human error attributable to lack of rest etc, then expect to see no change.

Clapham Junction 1988 sprang immediately to mind.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Nobody is going to be in a position to demand anything work-wise for the next few years. If they do, they won't get it. In any industry.

And any TOC worth its salt will give its staff meaningful T's and C's and pay what they're worth according to job role/skill set/unsociable hours etc...etc...

 

[baz962]

Though not directly covid related there is a renewed push for driverless tube trains (see The Financial Times) although I've read elsewhere that the numbers don't stack up. Boris wants TFL to look into driverless as a condition for receiving long term funding. There is also a want by Grant Shapps to reform TFL worker's pensions.

Wonder if they will look at MP's pensions.

 

[43066]

The current lot certainly are, on pretty much all sides.

It’s a pretty sad state of affairs - at this moment I would not want to vote for *any* of the parties. I’m disgusted with the Conservatives on several fronts (though I think a lot of that is down to Al Johnson and his dubious choice of cabinet), but equally my heart tells me that the rest would probably be worse in many ways. Having said that if there was an election now I’d probably vote Labour, never thought I’d be saying that, as I’m that uncomfortable with Johnson’s leadership.

It bugs me, as I just don’t have the confidence in this government to negotiate the ship through this storm. We’re now already hearing muttering about things like railway pensions falling under the spotlight. The final nail in Johnson’s coffin for me was the comments about driverless trains a couple of months back - completely crass in the middle of this pandemic when that group of people have generally bent over backwards to keep things moving. To be honest if Johnson is going to be that crass about others then one starts to think that the sympathy and best wishes directed towards him during his own brush with a Covid were perhaps misguided, that’s how peeved I am with him.

Fortunately it seems likely Al himself will be redundant before many railway staff might.

Agreed.

It’s just Johnson’s usual trick of playing dog whistle “divide and conquer” politics. Sadly there is a deeply unpleasant mentality in this country, where many would rather see others made worse off than improve things for themselves, and trade unionism and solidarity are dirty words. Train drivers are a common whipping boy, “overpaid militant train drivers” is as much of a trope as “underpaid overworked nurses”.

The same thing can be seen in the approach to Covid. Masks, regional lockdowns etc.
cause division and the more time spent arguing amongst ourselves the less scrutiny the government faces.

 

[bramling]

Agreed.

It’s just Johnson’s usual trick of playing dog whistle “divide and conquer” politics. Sadly there is a deeply unpleasant mentality in this country, where many would rather see others made worse off than improve things for themselves, and trade unionism and solidarity are dirty words. Train drivers are a common whipping boy, “overpaid militant train drivers” is as much of a trope as “underpaid overworked nurses”.

The same thing can be seen in the approach to Covid. Masks, regional lockdowns etc.
cause division and the more time spent arguing amongst ourselves the less scrutiny the government faces.

The sad thing is I had reservations about Al from the get-go, foremost in the mind remembering a comment made by Michael Portillo (a politician and individual for whom I have a massive amount of respect) a couple of years ago - I forget the exact wording but the gist of it was that the prospect of a Boris Johnson prime ministership filled him with utter horror. Then another part of me remembered his time as Mayor of London, where the bar seems to be as low as “least worst of the three” or “his time as mayor wasn’t a *total* disaster”!

Unfortunately we were then backed into a corner where Al seemed the only viable option on the table. I thought he had matured from his Spectator days, but clearly not. To be honest his father increasingly comes over as a complete doltz too, so perhaps the writing should have been on the wall there. I suspect many in the Conservative party feel the same way, and there must be serious murmurings now about both his performance, suitability for the role, and the direction the party has been yanked - and to be frank regarding Cummings’s stability.

Unfortunately in respect of redundancies, whilst we have such a loose cannon in charge and a completely screwed-up political system who knows what on earth might happen?

 

[8J]

RG catering staff on TPE are allegedly returning to trains on November 8th.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

If TOCs said there would be no pay rises for the next couple of years but instead were able to offer job security I think a lot of staff would be happy with that.

I certainly would be.

 

[Bald Rick]

If TOCs said there would be no pay rises for the next couple of years but instead were able to offer job security I think a lot of staff would be happy with that.

I certainly would be.

Staff might be, but suspect the union leadership would be differently inclined.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Staff might be, but suspect the union leadership would be differently inclined.

Perhaps the Unions need to rethink their role, then? One in particular even more so.

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps the Unions need to rethink their role, then? One in particular even more so.

I don’t disagree. But we both know that that is unlikely.

 

[baz962]

Perhaps the Unions need to rethink their role, then? One in particular even more so.

To be fair though , it wouldn't really matter what the union think's as we get the vote.

 

[bramling]

TOCs always run their business model under complement with staffing numbers, it make financial sense to use overtime as the default way to run adhoc services.
They don't want spare traincrew sitting around being paid to do nothing, this is they way it's always worked as nobody has a magic money tree to have staff sitting around being unproductive.
The railway is far more complicated than people think it is, it's common to over simplify how to run services

Yes pretty much the only one with a “no overtime” policy is LU, and even this only applies to drivers not other grades. I’d suggest that this only works at LU because random cancellations aren’t such an issue as with intensive services it’s easier to “work around” cancellations without it causing too much of an impact on the passenger. Whereas losing a key morning peak commuter service on a route with an hourly frequency is rather more unacceptable.

Obviously the situation on some TOCs with weekends isn’t ideal, but you still get it on LU - people just go sick instead, or agree to have their rest days changed in order to cover weekday duties. Again this has become more of an issue with increased weekend demand, as it becomes harder to work around cancellations without causing a more noticeable effect.

It absolutely isn’t simple at all. Many outsiders would be surprised what goes on inside crew depots to keep trains moving. Human nature is such that a lot of people don’t like elements of shift work, and whatever system or setup is in place people will try to find ways of beating the system.

 

[Tom Quinne]

To be fair though , it wouldn't really matter what the union think's as we get the vote.

How many members are so sick of the BS were emailed or posted it goes straight into the bin?
I’m guilty of automatic delete of emails from my union.

I don’t recall the last time I voted in a union election, only been a member for 16 years!

Shame on me I know, but they need to take note of us as well.

 

[baz962]

How many members are so sick of the BS were emailed or posted it goes straight into the bin?
I’m guilty of automatic delete of emails from my union.

I don’t recall the last time I voted in a union election, only been a member for 16 years!

Shame on me I know, but they need to take note of us as well.

I'm still new on the railway. I have never voted for anything either. I personally would forgo a few payrises for job security .

 

[Bald Rick]

How many members are so sick of the BS were emailed or posted it goes straight into the bin?
I’m guilty of automatic delete of emails from my union.

I don’t recall the last time I voted in a union election, only been a member for 16 years!

Shame on me I know, but they need to take note of us as well.

I'm still new on the railway. I have never voted for anything either. I personally would forgo a few payrises for job security .

But this is the point. If the union calls a ballot for something, and you don’t agree with their recommendation, you need to vote!

 

[Bletchleyite]

But this is the point. If the union calls a ballot for something, and you don’t agree with their recommendation, you need to vote!

And if you do agree with it, to be fair The best plan is that everyone votes, and that they only don't if they genuinely don't care either way.

 

[43066]

I'm still new on the railway. I have never voted for anything either. I personally would forgo a few payrises for job security .

But this is the point. If the union calls a ballot for something, and you don’t agree with their recommendation, you need to vote!

I don’t see how job security v. pay will ever be a choice that is offered.

Economic reality dictates they, if your job is necessary, and you’re a scarce resource, job security and bargaining power naturally go hand in hand.

I suspect existing pay deals will continue to be honoured, but now probably isn’t a great time to be negotiating new ones!

 

[dk1]

I don’t see how job security v. pay will ever be a choice that is offered.

Economic reality dictates they, if your job is necessary, and you’re a scarce resource, job security and bargaining power naturally go hand in hand.

I suspect existing pay deals will continue to be honoured, but now probably isn’t a great time to be negotiating new ones!

Negotiations are still ongoing in many ways. Our local reps have recently secured additional bonus payments for movement onto alternative turns to assist training (even if it is shorter than the original turn) & payment for taking a weekly CV19 test if in a training bubble & a daily additional payment for doing a temperature check.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Negotiations are still ongoing in many ways. Our local reps have recently secured additional bonus payments for movement onto alternative turns to assist training (even if it is shorter than the original turn) & payment for taking a weekly CV19 test if in a training bubble & a daily additional payment for doing a temperature check.

A daily payment for taking your temperature? Crikey, nice work if you can get it!

 

[dk1]

A daily payment for taking your temperature? Crikey, nice work if you can get it!

I know Its over & above the job description so has to be negotiated. Good to see everything done for our safety and to allow driver training to resume again. Win win on both sides.

 

[ST]

How much for the extra temp check? I am intrigued!

 

[theironroad]

An extract of some sombre reading, which won't help staff morale, from an article published yesterday in Rail Gazette:

Single guiding mind

The phrase ‘what would British Rail have done?’ has been heard a number of times in discussions, with an admission that the drive for revenue has added layers of cost and complexity which the industry can no longer afford. There is a consensus that a ‘single guiding mind’ will be required to oversee this transition.

This is expected to come with a drive at the behest of DfT to reduce costs. Industry sources expect this to be borne by all operators and all staff, with one informed source telling Rail Business UK that ‘industrial relations will be the big issue; I think there is a view that everybody in the rail industry, including the management, is overpaid and it is time for reckoning. That will happen in the next few months, and I think it could get quite bloody.’

The source noted that within the current government, which has a large majority and three years to run, there is a desire to remove some of the inflexibilities that remained after privatisation despite an expectation that they would be resolved. Ending rest day working is understood to be a particular ambition for DfT.

Noting that some politicians have suggested that with fewer people using trains now might be the best time to take on the unions and endure a period of industrial unrest, the source commented: ‘I think there is that appetite.’

Owning groups

Industry insiders do, however, note that if labour reforms are part of DfT’s negotiations with owning groups over the NRCs, it may cause some of the overseas groups to consider whether they wish to remain involved in the UK rail sector. ‘I think that this could make one or two owning groups give up rather than do the government’s dirty work’, noted one representative of a TOC parent.

Owning groups have until mid-December to reach agreement with DfT over retaining their contracts, and, in the view of several observers, some may opt not to accept the terms being offered by DfT and the Treasury.

‘This will come to a crunch’, explained one senior insider, ‘and if they don’t complete in December, they will go back on franchise terms and fall over, probably not immediately in some cases, but probably over the next 18 months.’
.

 

[43066]

A daily payment for taking your temperature? Crikey, nice work if you can get it!

I know Its over & above the job description so has to be negotiated. Good to see everything done for our safety and to allow driver training to resume again. Win win on both sides.

This is the kind of nonsense that gives the unions a bad name.

As it stands I can’t receive an email with my weekly and daily roster sheets, because the Union will want a fee for me to be given a work device, so I have to wait for someone to photograph the sheets and send around the WhatsApp group.

As a union member, that actually makes my life worse!

 

[dk1]

This is the kind of nonsense that gives the unions a bad name.

As it stands I can’t receive an email with my weekly and daily roster sheets, because the Union will want a fee for me to be given a work device, so I have to wait for someone to photograph the sheets and send around the WhatsApp group.

As a union member, that actually makes my life worse!

A bad name? Why?? They are standing up for their members which is a good thing in my book. Where would it end otherwise?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2020 ==

How much for the extra temp check? I am intrigued!

Only half hours overtime.

 

[DB]

A bad name? Why?? They are standing up for their members which is a good thing in my book. Where would it end otherwise?

Because there are times when it's in everybody's interests to give a bit of slack - and this is one of those times. Making a stand about this sort of thing will not go down well qith the general public, if one of the newspaper was to decide to make an issue of it.