Counties in the UK.

[w0033944]

You'll be telling us Borsetshire and Wessex are fictional next!

Wessex certainly wasn't fictitious, though it wasn't a county in the modern sense, but rather one of the ancient English kingdoms when the country was administered and governed by a mix of Angles, Saxons and Jutes.

 

[Busaholic]

Those people working for Wessex Crown Prosecution Service must have an easy life if the place is entirely fictitious!

 

[Calthrop]

I'm not an expert, or Scots; but from the Ian Allan-produced historical rail atlases relevant 1920s -- 40s, I count re those times, 31 Scottish counties.

Well with regard to Scotland I live in Stirlingshire as Falkirk forms part of that County.

I believe there used to be 33 Counties in Scotland but don't ask me to name them all

From 1890 to 1975, there were 33 County Councils:

1. Caithness
2. Sutherland
3. Ross and Cromarty
4. Inverness
5. Nairn
6. Moray
(County of Elgin until 1918)
7. Banffshire
8. Aberdeen
9. Kincardineshire
10. Angus
(County of Forfar until 1928)
11. Perth
12. Argyll
13. Bute
14. Ayr
15. Renfrew
16. Dunbarton
17. Stirling
18. Clackmannan
19. Kinross
20. Fife
21. East Lothian
(County of Haddington until 1921)
22. Midlothian
(County of Edinburgh until 1890)
23. West Lothian
(County of Linlithgow until 1924)
24. Lanark
25. Peebles
26. Selkirk
27. Berwick
28. Roxburgh
29. Dumfries
30. Kirkcudbright
31. Wigtown
32. Zetland
(Shetland)
33. Orkney

I agree with the Scottish list (the first by PaulLothian who does sound Scottish)

I see why -- as per quotes above -- for the 33 Scottish counties up to 1975, I got only 31: I was working from rail atlases, so forgot all about Zetland and Orkney !

 

[meridian2]

Wessex certainly wasn't fictitious, though it wasn't a county in the modern sense, but rather one of the ancient English kingdoms when the country was administered and governed by a mix of Angles, Saxons and Jutes.

Indeed, but it isn't a county any more than West Mercia is, even though the latter has a police force. Wessex was an area reimagined by Thomas Hardy as a setting for his novels. The ancient kingdoms gave way to the counties we recognise in the middle ages.

 

[DarloRich]

Question:

In which county is Middlesbrough?

 

[bradford758]

Lol, I knew this one would come up. Always happy to bust the myth...

For a start, postcodes are nothing to do with counties. Merseyside doesn't begin with 'L' and most of Cheshire, whether the modern incarnation or the larger traditional one, isn't in the CH postal area; as our most noted Cheshire gentleman, Paul Sidorczuk will attest to.

The letter on your postcode denotes the main head sorting office. 'L' meant the now defunct Liverpool sorting office on Copperas Hill in the city centre. 'CH' means the one in Chester. The number following it is the local sorting office that comes under the main one. It's purely an administrative device that helps the Royal Mail know which location to send its letters for sorting.

The Wirral/CH thing was the result of a fairly long term campaign by the Royal Mail to close the Liverpool sorting office. The Wirral mail would go via Chester whilst the rest of the 'L' would be taken over by Warrington. It took many years due to local political opposition and workers' unions. Eventually, they got their way and hiving off the Wirral to come under Chester sorting office was the first phase. The 'L' couldn't be kept as that would mean the mail still being sent to Liverpool; therefore the wrong head office. As the numbers used on the Wirral were on the high side and there were no CH equivalents, it was easy to just change L41 to CH41 etc.

A while passed, once more due to local political opposition and unions but the Royal Mail finally closed the Liverpool office only a few years ago. The 'L' designation was kept rather than changing to WA, as this would involve changing the numbers too i.e. as there was already a WA8, L8 would have to be WA[some high number]. That would've been controversial but also unnecessary. Anything with either an 'L' or 'WA' on simply goes via Warrington now.

Some snobby types on the peninsula may have been pleased; not so much because of any particular affinity with Cheshire so much as the belief that their car insurance premiums would go down, or even that their property would rise in value. The former patently hasn't happened and I see little evidence for the latter either. Even so, the idea that some people over the water were so upset about having an 'L' postcode that Royal Mail went out of their way to totally overhaul their sorting methods is, when you think about it, rather far fetched; absurd even.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You're confusing administrative county with 'actual' county. Until 1974, Sussex was indeed considered a single county, even if it had two county councils. It had been since antiquity. Liverpool was never under Lancashire County Council but up until 1974, had also been considered a part of Lancashire since its establishment in 1207.

A bit off topic here apologies.
Harrogate has its own postcode HG even though mail is routed through Leeds or LS, as the 'we're better than you' residents pressurised Royal Mail to not be under the LS area.

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[bradford758]

Question:

In which county is Middlesbrough?

Ah that's an interesting question. Pre 1974 it was Yorkshire, and following discussions on here I suppose it still is. Yorkshire Cricket held home matches here. But I suppose (contrary to other discussions on here). accent-wise and to the locals it's more associated with being in the northeast rather than Yorkshire.
Was Cleveland from 1974 to abolishment of the latter, dunno what it is now???

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[northwichcat]

The letter on your postcode denotes the main head sorting office. 'L' meant the now defunct Liverpool sorting office on Copperas Hill in the city centre. 'CH' means the one in Chester. The number following it is the local sorting office that comes under the main one. It's purely an administrative device that helps the Royal Mail know which location to send its letters for sorting.

More accurately the sorting office at the time postcodes were drawn up. My postcode area of WA16 was handled at Warrington, then Royal Mail started using 'regional distribution centres' which meant it then got handled at Crewe but then transferred back at Warrington again when Crewe ceased to be a regional distribution centre, with Warrington now covering CW postcodes as well.

Harrogate has its own postcode HG even though mail is routed through Leeds or LS, as the 'we're better than you' residents pressurised Royal Mail to not be under the LS area.

M postcodes were unpopular with towns like Sale (formerly of Cheshire) and Atherton (formerly of Lancashire) when they were first introduced.

 

[PaulLothian]

I agree with the Scottish list (the first by PaulLothian who does sound Scottish)

Though not born in Scotland, I have worked in local government here under all the systems noted except the pre-1890 one!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Bath & North East Somerset is an interesting one.
I believe technically most of the area is in the county of Somerset, but the local authority is Bath & North East Somerset council.
Add in the fact that it used to be part of Avon, and you end up with way too many possibilities when filling in an online form!

 

[Bevan Price]

The problem is that the meddling parasites in Whitehall changed things without considering local people or traditions. Some so-called "experts" decreed that there were "optimum sizes" for local authorities and their services, and imposed changes whether or not people wanted them.

Like it or not (and most residents did not), towns like St. Helens & Southport were forced into the phoney county called Merseyside. Towns such as Leigh & Wigan were lumped together into "Metropolitan Boroughs" - and in many such cases, the smaller towns have suffered adversely compared with the largest town. And Whitehall has still not learned the lesson, having now pressurised locations to become part of "city regions", with no attempt at public consultation.

 

[Gareth]

A bit off topic here apologies.
Harrogate has its own postcode HG even though mail is routed through Leeds or LS, as the 'we're better than you' residents pressurised Royal Mail to not be under the LS area.

I'm not familiar with HG but I'd be very sceptical if HG exists purely to make some snobby locals happy. Like I said, the letter has an administrative significance. Perhaps HG wasn't always routed through Leeds?

 

[Busaholic]

Berkshire is an interesting one, because there is no longer an administrative county of that name as it was entirely divided into unitary authorities, whereas Devon is a hotchpotch with much of its population living in the unitary authorities of Plymouth and Exeter but a large area geographically not being in a U.A.

 

[Lankyline]

Talking of postcodes Southport is still PR, but the residents hate being in Merseyside, they still want to be back in Lancashire

 

[DarloRich]

Ah that's an interesting question. Pre 1974 it was Yorkshire, and following discussions on here I suppose it still is. Yorkshire Cricket held home matches here. But I suppose (contrary to other discussions on here). accent-wise and to the locals it's more associated with being in the northeast rather than Yorkshire.
Was Cleveland from 1974 to abolishment of the latter, dunno what it is now???

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I think this shows why counties can be seen as slightly anachronistic. Boro is in Yorkshire ( south of the tees) but hasn't been in Yorkshire since 1974. Although clearly County Durham is the premier English County. ( even if Darlo is now a unitary authority!)

 

[northwichcat]

Berkshire is an interesting one, because there is no longer an administrative county of that name.

That's also the case with a lot of the counties in the North, so not unusual.

 

[Calthrop]

I think this shows why counties can be seen as slightly anachronistic. Boro is in Yorkshire ( south of the tees) but hasn't been in Yorkshire since 1974. Although clearly County Durham is the premier English County. ( even if Darlo is now a unitary authority!)

Off at tangent -- but I think the penny has at last dropped for me, as to where you get your posting name (which I'd thought hitherto, must be a random one that you'd plucked out of the air). "Darlo" is, then, a "pet name" for Darlington; which is where you come from, and your name is Richard. Oh, dear -- call me dim...

 

[Busaholic]

That's also the case with a lot of the counties in the North, so not unusual.

Under the Banham reforms Berkshire was unique among non-metropolitan counties in having the County Council abolished but the county title retained.

 

[northwichcat]

Under the Banham reforms Berkshire was unique among non-metropolitan counties in having the County Council abolished but the county title retained.

It was proposed in other areas too but the proposals were only implemented in part. For instance, Warrington and Halton remained in Cheshire but were covered by unitary authorities instead of by Cheshire County Council, while York was no longer covered by North Yorkshire County Council.

In the case of Cheshire the rest of it was split up in 2009 using larger unitary authorities to what Banham proposed - Banham had proposed a total of 6 (including Warrington and Halton) but there are now 4 unitary authorities in Cheshire. One of them is very unusual because it covers a city and an area not included within the city (Cheshire West & City of Chester - usually shortened to Cheshire West & Chester) when usually the boundary of a city is considered to where the city council's control ends.

 

[Deerfold]

The OP will certainly have to decide which criteria they want to apply to their definition of County.

You certainly can't mix post-74 Greater Manchester with the single monolithic Yorkshire in the same list.