Could you extend any services to increase connectivity?

[HST43257]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).
- Leeds to Knottingley services (via both routes) could extend through to Doncaster, adding more London connectivity as well as flows towards other South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire areas. A station would also be opened at Askern, which would have a good service (2tph in both directions) with excellent links.

Any other suggestions welcome

 

[yorkie]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).

I suggest using the following existing thread for that:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/my-idea-extend-huddersfield-castleford-services-to-york.201225/

 

[Kite159]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).
- Leeds to Knottingley services (via both routes) could extend through to Doncaster, adding more London connectivity as well as flows towards other South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire areas. A station would also be opened at Askern, which would have a good service (2tph in both directions) with excellent links.

Any other suggestions welcome

Issue with extending the Knottingley trains to Doncaster (other than pathings on the ECML section) is that you will need to do some work at Knottingley station as the line towards the ECML branches off before the station so new platforms will need to get built.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2020 ==

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).
- Leeds to Knottingley services (via both routes) could extend through to Doncaster, adding more London connectivity as well as flows towards other South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire areas. A station would also be opened at Askern, which would have a good service (2tph in both directions) with excellent links.

Any other suggestions welcome

Issue with extending the Knottingley trains to Doncaster (other than pathings on the ECML section) is that you will need to do some work at Knottingley station as the line towards the ECML branches off before the station so new platforms will need to get built.

 

[YorksLad12]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).
- Leeds to Knottingley services (via both routes) could extend through to Doncaster, adding more London connectivity as well as flows towards other South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire areas. A station would also be opened at Askern, which would have a good service (2tph in both directions) with excellent links.

Any other suggestions welcome

As well as the points and other thread mentioned above... the Friends of Askern Station have been calling for the station to be reopened. There is no passenger service along that line apart from the Grand Central services four-ish times a day in normal time, and no desire from any operator to effectively run from Pontefract to Doncaster only stopping at Askern in between (barring new platforms at Knottingley) but there you go.

The site of the former Askern Station is between a bridge and a level crossing, tucked away behind some houses and with no place for drop-offs, let along park & ride, which is where a station at Askern would be useful; there's not really a large enough local population otherwise - if you were driving there from Norton, say, you'd just keep going. A Parkway station between the two villages would make sense...

Always remember Jurassic Park: just because you can do a thing it doesn't mean that you should.

 

[Ianno87]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).
- Leeds to Knottingley services (via both routes) could extend through to Doncaster, adding more London connectivity as well as flows towards other South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire areas. A station would also be opened at Askern, which would have a good service (2tph in both directions) with excellent links.

Any other suggestions welcome

Issue with those is getting capacity into York / Doncaster (Respectively)

 

[DJ_K666]

Extend the East Croydon to Milton keynes service back to Rugby. It used to go Brighton to Rugby using a 319 so shouldn't be a massive problem plus there is a south facing bay platform at Rugby.

 

[JonathanH]

Extend the East Croydon to Milton keynes service back to Rugby. It used to go Brighton to Rugby using a 319 so shouldn't be a massive problem plus there is a south facing bay platform at Rugby.

What extra connection is extending to Rugby (and it could only go via Northampton) going to give anyone relative to terminating at Milton Keynes? It would just be duplication of other services.

It only originally terminated at Rugby because there was intent for it to go to Birmingham New Street but no path available. That lack of a suitable path is even more true now.

Milton Keynes is as far as the service should go (for connections to Avanti services). If West Coast services started to stop at Watford Junction in the future or there is a HS2 interchange on the West London Line, the Southern service can be cut back to Watford Junction.

 

[Ianno87]

Extend the East Croydon to Milton keynes service back to Rugby. It used to go Brighton to Rugby using a 319 so shouldn't be a massive problem plus there is a south facing bay platform at Rugby.

It's slow enough as it is from Milton Keynes; few people from MK use it as a through service to anywhere beyond about Shepherd's Bush because it is so slow.

When it previously ran from Rugby, it was a much faster path, I think on the Fast Lines (not practical now).

 

[tbtc]

Interesting idea.

There are a few services that terminate just short of a "hub" station, which could be extended (if you assume an infinite number of units, don't worry about electrification etc, for the purposes of a "speculative" thread). For example...

Extend the half hourly (Newcastle/ Middlesbrough) York - Leeds - Vic- Pic - Manchester Airport service to Crewe in lieu of the Liverpool - Chat Moss - Manchester Airport service (which could terminate at Victoria instead - Liverpool would retain a link to Manchester Airport with the hourly Warrington Central service - maybe also cut the Manchester - Stockport - Crewe stopper back to Alderley Edge if platform space at Crewe is an issue - there are the Avanti and TfW services from Stockport to Crewe that would retain a link). That would give West Yorkshire and north east England a regular service to the WCML at Crewe - may take some pressure off the hourly XC service from Leeds to Birmingham - may open up a number of other connections at Crewe.

Extend the hourly Nottingham - Worksop DMU through to Retford, giving ECML connections to Nottingham and Nottinghamshire - given how poor the current situation is for anyone heading north from that neck of the woods.

Extend (some of) the Liverpool Central - Kirkby services through to Wigan - a decent size of place in its own right and great WCML connections - Kirkby is a nowhere place to terminate a service, Wigan would have made a lot more sense (but, hey, petty local politics and all that - plus lack of electrification east of Kirkby, I know, I know...)

 

[TheWalrus]

Bedwyns onto Westbury
Chathills onto Berwick are the first two that come to mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Extend the East Croydon to Milton keynes service back to Rugby. It used to go Brighton to Rugby using a 319 so shouldn't be a massive problem plus there is a south facing bay platform at Rugby.

I'd more extend the other end to Gatwick, at least if flying is still a thing after COVID.

 

[DJ_K666]

I'd more extend the other end to Gatwick, at least if flying is still a thing after COVID.

If we're allowed to go anywhere...

 

[Flying Claret]

Extend the Manc Vic to Blackburn (via burnley/tod) through to Preston. Would increase connections to the WCML from East lancs and provide alternatives for Rochdale...

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I'd more extend the other end to Gatwick, at least if flying is still a thing after COVID.

Would have to wait until the Gatwick Project is finished anyway regardless of Covid so at least 2-3 years if it was going to happen, which I doubt.

 

[Anonymous10]

Could any rail services in the UK be extended to increase the amount of commuter/leisure flows in a single service?

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the Yorkshire area:
- Extending the Huddersfield to Castleford as far as York to increase services to Sherburn-in-Elmet and to have a case where there is more than one city within reach of this area (Castleford & Normanton).
- Leeds to Knottingley services (via both routes) could extend through to Doncaster, adding more London connectivity as well as flows towards other South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire areas. A station would also be opened at Askern, which would have a good service (2tph in both directions) with excellent links.

Any other suggestions welcome

there is currently a once daily train service from Manchester to Tenby and a once weekly service from london Paddington to tenby(summer only) i would like to increase the tenby to Manchester to twice daily as allows easier access to citys and vice versa and have the london service maybe twice weekly to allow for more tourists to allow for this in timetable and not disrupt services i would reinstate the passing loop which i believe is still there all be it overgrown this would allow existing services not to be affected if a train was doing turnaround ect it could be reinstated as a bay or passing loop the platform is safe as still in use for Swansea bound services

 

[JonathanH]

I'd more extend the other end to Gatwick, at least if flying is still a thing after COVID.

Would have to wait until the Gatwick Project is finished anyway regardless of Covid so at least 2-3 years if it was going to happen, which I doubt.

It isn't just Gatwick (or East Croydon / Windmill Bridge) on that one. You would also need a path through the congested East Croydon to Purley slow line corridor which I think would also be challenging.

 

[daodao]

Re-open Northwich to Sandbach and Crewe, with a stop at Middlewich, and add an additional hourly service (previously proposed) on the CLC line north of Northwich. If extended to Nantwich, it would link all the historic salt towns, so could be called the Salt line. However, crossing the main line tracks at Crewe station would probably be out of the question.

 

[Bigman]

How about sending some of the Leeds - Morecambe services to Windermere instead. A65 is a very poor road at the best of times.

 

[Ianno87]

How about sending some of the Leeds - Morecambe services to Windermere instead. A65 is a very poor road at the best of times.

It would still be an awfully long way around on the train, via Lancaster. Journey time wouldn't be attractive enough (and you can change at Lancaster today if you wanted to).

 

[Aictos]

Extend the East Croydon to Milton keynes service back to Rugby. It used to go Brighton to Rugby using a 319 so shouldn't be a massive problem plus there is a south facing bay platform at Rugby.

I would venture a slight alteration in that I would extend the Northampton terminators to Rugby if possible, extend the Milton Keynes terminators to Northampton and instead of extending the East Croydon to Milton Keynes to Rugby instead try and get a second train per hour between East Croydon and Watford Junction.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

It isn't just Gatwick (or East Croydon / Windmill Bridge) on that one. You would also need a path through the congested East Croydon to Purley slow line corridor which I think would also be challenging.

You woudn't need to wait for East Croydon/Windmill Bridge works as the train already runs to East Croydon. The main challenge would be the flat crossing south of East Croydon at South Croydon Junction, Purley and Stoats Nest Junction where trains cross over.

As it would only be 1 extra train an hour, I reckon it would be possible, but would require a timetable recast so not worth the hassle as in the current timetable it would be a very tight squeeze to extend it. You'd likely possibly have to also remove stops on other services to fit it in, so like you said, would be very challenging to find a path but I don't think it would be impossible.

 

[JonathanH]

You woudn't need to wait for East Croydon/Windmill Bridge works as the train already runs to East Croydon. The main challenge would be the flat crossing south of East Croydon at South Croydon Junction, Purley and Stoats Nest Junction where trains cross over.

As it would only be 1 extra train an hour, I reckon it would be possible, but would require a timetable recast so not worth the hassle as in the current timetable it would be a very tight squeeze to extend it. You'd likely possibly have to also remove stops on other services to fit it in, so like you said, would be very challenging to find a path but I don't think it would be impossible.

Yes and no. Firstly, you would be tying up two more 377/2s to run through to Gatwick on part of the route where they are at best duplicating other services. You need a path which isn't affected by stops on the Caterham or Redhill routes to get to Gatwick and back within the hour - I think finding a slow line path where East Croydon to Gatwick via Redhill can be done in 25 minutes is going to be a challenge given the other priorities to serve passengers on the route and frankly the train would be largely empty because it would take 45 minutes to get from Clapham Junction to Gatwick Airport rather than 25 on a fast line train.

I think the point is that the railway has concluded that running through to Gatwick simply isn't worth it if the train is stuck on the slow line side of the route (which it is).

 

[Halish Railway]

Extend the Blackpool North to York service to Sunderland, calling at all stations as far as Billingham and then Hartlepool afterwards, finally giving parts of Teeside and Wearside a proper link southwards to Yorkshire as the current 5 trains per day Grand Central service just doesn’t cut the mustard.

Also extend the planned Nottingham to Bradford Interchange via Wakefield Westgate to Blackpool North to give two trains per hour between Leeds and Blackpool North.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes and no. Firstly, you would be tying up two more 377/2s to run through to Gatwick on part of the route where they are at best duplicating other services. You need a path which isn't affected by stops on the Caterham or Redhill routes to get to Gatwick and back within the hour - I think finding a slow line path where East Croydon to Gatwick via Redhill can be done in 25 minutes is going to be a challenge given the other priorities to serve passengers on the route and frankly the train would be largely empty because it would take 45 minutes to get from Clapham Junction to Gatwick Airport rather than 25 on a fast line train.

I think the point is that the railway has concluded that running through to Gatwick simply isn't worth it if the train is stuck on the slow line side of the route (which it is).

You'd be looking at a Milton Keynes-Gatwick journey time of something like 2.5 hours, when (in decent traffic) it can be driven in 1.5 hours (without the faff of getting to the station).

Actually travelling MK-Gatwick, MK-Euston-(walk)-St. Pancras then Thameslink is a very attractive route, even with wheelie cases. That takes about 1hr 45 minutes, with a slick change across London.

Extend the Blackpool North to York service to Sunderland, calling at all stations as far as Billingham and then Hartlepool afterwards, finally giving parts of Teeside and Wearside a proper link southwards to Yorkshire as the current 5 trains per day Grand Central service just doesn’t cut the mustard.

Also extend the planned Nottingham to Bradford Interchange via Wakefield Westgate to Blackpool North to give two trains per hour between Leeds and Blackpool North.

Not a bad shout actually, feels like there ought to be some merit in York-Durham Coast-Sunderland being served hourly.

 

[Glenn1969]

But the planned service is now not going to happen. Why not introduce a 2nd Preston service from Leeds but send it to Barrow or Windermere instead of Blackpool?

 

[JonathanH]

Also extend the planned Nottingham to Bradford Interchange via Wakefield Westgate to Blackpool North to give two trains per hour between Leeds and Blackpool North.

Services which reverse at a major station don't feel like through services to me. Nottingham or Sheffield to Preston or Blackpool North via Leeds isn't the most direct route in any case. Equally, the Hull to Halifax service could be extended. However, I think the problem this would run into is the need to fit in with the Colne to Preston and Todmorden Curve to Blackburn services and the problem of a large number of station calls on a two-track railway between Burnley and Preston.

Actually travelling MK-Gatwick, MK-Euston-(walk)-St. Pancras then Thameslink is a very attractive route, even with wheelie cases. That takes about 1hr 45 minutes, with a slick change across London.

Yes, the railway has a difficulty advertising the convenience of changing from Euston to St Pancras to people who don't know about it.

 

[TXMISTA]

How about combining some Banbury-Oxford stoppers with Didcot-Oxford ones. Obviously there isn’t huge demand for stoppers on the Cherwell Valley but a higher frequency could encourage usage.

 

[JonathanH]

How about combining some Banbury-Oxford stoppers with Didcot-Oxford ones. Obviously there isn’t huge demand for stoppers on the Cherwell Valley but a higher frequency could encourage usage.

If you look at the timetable most of the Oxford to Banbury stoppers run through to Didcot exactly as you suggest.

 

[Envy123]

I'd extend the Welwyn Garden City (WGC) stoppers to Stevenage, allowing passengers from the Peterborough branch easily get to inner suburban stations without needing to change twice.

An issue I'd see is the likely poor journey times for Knebworth and Welwyn North, as well as pathing.

 

[Peter0124]

Extend the Dalmuir/Milngavie to Cumbernauld trains to Stirling or Dunblane?