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Could Weedon Station reopen?
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adrock1976
Established Member
I feel that should if Weedon ever reopens, it will be
1) After HS2 has been constructed
and
2)
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causton
Established Member
I don't see it as likely.
There are no "slow lines" through Weedon so it would be either a lot of work to make a loop of some sort (or a huge impact on available trains that could run), for a station where it is less than 10 minutes drive to Long Buckby and Northampton is also easy to access with their own train connections.
The reality is that you would have to take trains out of the timetable to find room to stop there, for a village with less than 3,000 living there.
There are no "slow lines" through Weedon so it would be either a lot of work to make a loop of some sort (or a huge impact on available trains that could run), for a station where it is less than 10 minutes drive to Long Buckby and Northampton is also easy to access with their own train connections.
The reality is that you would have to take trains out of the timetable to find room to stop there, for a village with less than 3,000 living there.
adrock1976
Established Member
I forgot that Weedon is after where the Northampton loop diverges from the mainline.
I have edited my previous post above.
I have edited my previous post above.
But you're missing the point of geography - Northampton is a county which is an 'east-west' stripe, so whilst 3 north to south rail routes go through it, the stations, with the exception of Kings Sutton are the key places on the route.
Better cases could be made for Desborough, though I think that's less likely with the stopping trains on the MML heading to Corby. Something between Bedford and Wellingborough a kind of Higham / Rushden parkway. And on the WCML possibly Roade. Beyond that I can't see anywhere that would make sense unless you were rebuilding marginal routes.
Long Buckby already serves Daventry and is basically the same distance from Daventry as Weedon.
But - potentially - journey time from Weedon could be significantly less.
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
According to Google they are both 10 Minutes from daventry so no.
weedon to Daventry: https://www.google.com/search?q=wee...2j69i57j0l5.2295j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Long Buckby to Daventry: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwjCsuDviJHqAhWzp3EKHRG6DaIQ4dUDCAw&uact=5
Journey time from Weedon to Euston v journey time Long Buckby to Euston was what I meant.
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
still don't think it is worth the money nor is it a good idea.
Indeed, which is why restoring Northampton's E-W route to Market Harborough or Bedford would tap markets lost to road.
Northampton to Bedford, as I've pointed put many times on these boards would be relatively slow and has no traffic points en route. Time wise when EWR has a fast Bletchley to Bedford service, you'll be looking at a sub 1hr Northampton Bedford journey time if connections are sensible.
Northampton Harborough is similarly pointless, not least because capacity from Harborough - Leicester is limited and can be better used improving London services.
Neither of the routes from Northampton east or west were ever that busy. The route to the west (SMJR) lost its passenger service before Beeching. The route to the east was a Beeching closure but after Wellingborough didn't serve anywhere particularly large - even now Thrapston and Oundle aren't particularly big.
Well, since we have no idea what it would cost I'm not sure how you can reach the first opinion, and why isn't it a good idea?
Agreed on the history, and I was thinking of the Wellingborough route, mostly. Given the amount of current and potential house building across Northampton- Peterborough, I'd be interested to see how much would be required to make reinstatement worthwhile.
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
Its on the fast lines and post HS2 there will still be fast trains on that section, it would cause delays the line is already busy south of Rugby
One of the reasons for building HS2 is to release capacity on the existing WCML. One - potential - use of that released capacity would be to provide extra calls on the existing route, which could include one or more new stations. There's no reason why stops at Weedon would cause any more issue than stops at M Keynes or Watford Jn.
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
I think Roade is more likely than Weedon as it can easily be separated from the fast lines
Stopping any train on the main line consumes capacity - which has a value. The tricky bit is to justify the consumption of that capacity in terms of overall benefit. Does it make sense to lengthen the journey time for (say) 300 passengers by 3 - 4 minutes in order to benefit the number of passengers joining / alighting? In the case of Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central, the large local population and levels of passenger demand justify a range of passenger stops. In the case of Weedon, you would struggle to justify ever stopping anything. The argument that it would be faster to Euston than using Long Buckby is also not compelling - you aren't gaining any new passengers with this argument, merely abstracting existing traffic.
That's all before we even consider the capital cost of building the new station ...
Most of the house building is Rushden and Higham. Rushden was on a branch not on the route to Peterboro, same for Higham. The old Peterborough route ran north of the current A45 alignment and north of the lakes you can see on an OS map. You'd end up with a railway running through nowhere, which was the original problem.
I maintain a Rushden Parkway station south of Wellingboro' might be viable, but reinstatement of the old Peterboro line is crayonista fantasy.
Except the two you cite are significant places with good passenger numbers, whereas Weedon's a small village with none of that demand. You'd probably get more passengers on 1 train at MK than the whole day at Weedon.
It is extremely unlikely that a case could be made for a new station at Weedon. The extra journey time (and thus social dis benefit) for everyone delayed on board the existing services would be far higher than the social benefit to those who might use the station.
It would almost certainly cause a net revenue loss too.
It would almost certainly cause a net revenue loss too.
43096
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There is simply not sufficient demand to justify it either pre or post HS2. Daventry is served by Long Buckby, is it not, so stopping services on the fast line for some small village ain't going to happen. In a way it is a similar situation to Welwyn North on the East Coast - if there wasn't a station there, would one get built. I suspect that would be highly unlikely given the capacity issues it would cause.
Or a station on the southern edge of Northampton (with an access from the M1 at J15A)
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
Yes. Roade doesn't block the fast lines and Northampton parkway is not a bad idea.
The Planner
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Too busy trying to put freight terminals in to fit a station in now
Weedon to Euston would be around 40-45 minutes. Long Buckby to Euston is (when I looked at NRE) 80+.
It may well be that, on balance, there isn't a commercial case but it seems a much sounder idea than many floated on here.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
There was a proposal for a Northampton Parkway at Blisworth, on the main line, in the early 70s, but this was killed off to allow Milton Keynes Central to be opened.
I'm not sure what purpose a Northampton Parkway station at Roade would serve, if it was on the Northampton line (fast and slow separate at Hanslope, to the south).
The population of Northampton is around 200,000; larger than Milton Keynes New City, but slightly smaller than Milton Keynes Unitary Authority. The latter figure usually seems to be the one quoted by M.K., but it covers a large area, for instance including as far east as Newport Pagnell. However, and unfortunately for the railways, Northamptonshire has particularly good road links, both North-South and East-West. My neighbours might consider using rail to London, but certainly not to anywhere else.
An earlier post suggested that a journey time by rail for the 20 miles to Bedford might be under an hour (with a change, and after the expensive upgrading of the route beyond Bletchley) which is a few minutes quicker than the bus (but which does however go centre-centre) but not the car.
Considering Northampton - Peterborough; centres of population are as follows;- Northampton (MP 0) - 200,000: Wellingborough (MP 13) - 49,000: Irthlingborough station (MP 17) is in the valley between Irthlingborough and Rushden/Higham Ferrers, and both I'boro and Higham were visible from the platforms - total of the 3, 45,000: Peterborough (MP 44) - 200,000, with connections to the East Coast route. (I've omitted the small towns of around 5,000 - 10,000). If this is seen as having a poor potential, what does that say about some of the other proposals made over the last few years? It's comparable to Bedford - Cambridge and many times that of Skipton - Colne (a low bar, I know!)
Ironically, this route would be difficult to re-create because its trackbed was used to improve the A45 and, further east, the A605. For a route regarded as of limited potential, it seems strange that, when the A45 Nene Valley Way was opened along the railway trackbed, it soon became one of the busiest trunk roads in the country, and had more traffic than some Motorways. It's also worth mentioning that the alignment of the SMJ westwards was partly used to improve the A43, which is now dual carriageway on a fast alignment from Northampton to the M40.
MP - mile-post, representing distances. Populations from 2011 census. SMJ - Stratford and Midland Junction Railway, which provided a route Westwards from Blisworth.
I'm not sure what purpose a Northampton Parkway station at Roade would serve, if it was on the Northampton line (fast and slow separate at Hanslope, to the south).
The population of Northampton is around 200,000; larger than Milton Keynes New City, but slightly smaller than Milton Keynes Unitary Authority. The latter figure usually seems to be the one quoted by M.K., but it covers a large area, for instance including as far east as Newport Pagnell. However, and unfortunately for the railways, Northamptonshire has particularly good road links, both North-South and East-West. My neighbours might consider using rail to London, but certainly not to anywhere else.
An earlier post suggested that a journey time by rail for the 20 miles to Bedford might be under an hour (with a change, and after the expensive upgrading of the route beyond Bletchley) which is a few minutes quicker than the bus (but which does however go centre-centre) but not the car.
Considering Northampton - Peterborough; centres of population are as follows;- Northampton (MP 0) - 200,000: Wellingborough (MP 13) - 49,000: Irthlingborough station (MP 17) is in the valley between Irthlingborough and Rushden/Higham Ferrers, and both I'boro and Higham were visible from the platforms - total of the 3, 45,000: Peterborough (MP 44) - 200,000, with connections to the East Coast route. (I've omitted the small towns of around 5,000 - 10,000). If this is seen as having a poor potential, what does that say about some of the other proposals made over the last few years? It's comparable to Bedford - Cambridge and many times that of Skipton - Colne (a low bar, I know!)
Ironically, this route would be difficult to re-create because its trackbed was used to improve the A45 and, further east, the A605. For a route regarded as of limited potential, it seems strange that, when the A45 Nene Valley Way was opened along the railway trackbed, it soon became one of the busiest trunk roads in the country, and had more traffic than some Motorways. It's also worth mentioning that the alignment of the SMJ westwards was partly used to improve the A43, which is now dual carriageway on a fast alignment from Northampton to the M40.
MP - mile-post, representing distances. Populations from 2011 census. SMJ - Stratford and Midland Junction Railway, which provided a route Westwards from Blisworth.
No, the A45 didn't take any of the Peterborough line alignment.
At Northampton it crossed under the A45 then ran south of the A45 alignment all the way to Wellingborough - south of Billing Aquadrome and Great Doddington.
At Wellingborough the A45 crossed the line's formation at roughly Whitworth's mill - the line was heading north into Wellingborough, the A45 is East West.
From Wellingborough the line's formation is north of the A45 running north of the lakes initially and then through the middle of what is now Stanwick Lakes Country park. It then headed north of Ringstead and into Thrapston.
The A 605 which is the Thrapston - Peterborough road did take some at Barnwell and I think around Oundle.
You can check all of this using current OS maps.
Again - a very limited amount. The only bit used was from the bridge under the M1 at what is now Junc 15A to somewhere around Blisworth so about 1 mile.
From Blisworth the SMJ ran north of the current A43 formation skirting north of Tiffield. Having passed through Towcester the railway formation crosses the A43 at right angles on the Towcester by-pass section, just after that the SMJ split with a line which headed north and on through Moreton Pinkney and Byfield to Fenny Compton. The southward route headed to Banbury joining the LNW branch from Buckingham at Cockley Brake Junction, but the SMJ route to that point ran well to the north of the path of the A43 all the way to Banbury. The railway ran north of Abthorpe and Wappenham, through Helmdon and south of Greatworth. In fact the SMJ ran north of Brackley where the current A43 heads south-west to join the M40.
And the reason why Northampton - Peterborough isn't comparable to Bedford - Cambridge, is because Bedford - Cambridge is actually about linking Oxford and Milton Keynes to Cambridge. Bedford-Cambridge is simply the missing link on a route which is otherwise complete. Northampton - Peterborough has completely gone and you're making (what I believe to be an incorrect) assumption that there is a traffic demand between Northampton and Peterborough which the rail network could tap into. The reason the A45 / A605 is busy isn't people travelling between Northampton and Peterborough - it's people connecting onto the A1 - the number of lorries on that bit of road is a giveaway to that. Peterborough relatively speaking is not a key destination for people from Northampton nor vice versa.
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