Could there be a National Minimum Standards for First Class?

[whhistle]

I'm really surprised in the varying degree of First Class offerings on Intercity routes.

Taking GWR / WCML / MML and ECML - the four main big ones - should there be minimum standards in First Class?

For example, Virgin WC provide complimentary food all throughout the day. Free. Unlimited snacks, toast (in the morning), drinks, depending on which service you're on, a proper full on meal in the evenings. Most First Class lounges open at good times (early till late).

Yet MML seem to have only certain trains with breakfast on, I've seen menus with prices on in First Class (so I assume you have to pay for a meal!) and First Class lounges only open at certain times - closed at weekends at some stations.

It's a little disappointing that you don't know what you might or might not get when travelling First Class. If I was using West Coast, then transferring on to the MML, I'd not feel the value of my ticket on the tail end of the journey.
I understand you get what you get with privatisation but should the DfT not dictate minimum standards like many other standards?

Perhaps a 2nd tier, such as GEML, Chiltern, CrossCountry (maybe) and perhaps others could be added, with a 3rd tier for regional routes / trains.

 

[DarloRich]

Personally I would prefer the TOC's focused on a decent standard of scum class accommodation such as offering us free wifi, a trolley with some food left on it and enough seats to go around and.

PS that is food we have to pay for.........................

 

[Clip]

First and foremost your 1st class ticket is just to travel in a better seat with better leg room and better ambiance than standard.

Everything else above that is why its called complimentary and if the DfT was to set standards for TOCs to follow then say goodbye to any sort of good value 1st advances as they look to recoup those costs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd rather 1st was just 2+1 window aligned seating at a sensible markup (50-60% extra) and food was chargeable, personally.

 

[DenmarkRail]

I'd say the VT is the one everyone should work towards

 

[Gareth Marston]

that's what happens when you fragment a national system.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd say the VT is the one everyone should work towards

on what basis?

 

[MG11]

If a standard were to be set, I would have:-
Larger, reclining seats
A minimum of two FC Hosts per service
2+1 seating
First Class Lounges at major stations i.e. King's Cross, Birmingham New Street
Soft refreshments, including hot drinks and snacks, served at seat by a dedicated Host
WiFi Internet
Hot meals available, either at a charge to the customer or complementary

 

[Mojo]

I'd rather 1st was just 2+1 window aligned seating at a sensible markup (50-60% extra) and food was chargeable, personally.

I, and many others, probably wouldn't bother with it then. The ambience in Standard class is perfectly acceptable for my needs on the majority of trains. Even Eurostar, which does include food, the portions are so tiny and the service so limited, I don't bother any more as it isn't worth it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I, and many others, probably wouldn't bother with it then.

Yet I'm sure as many people don't bother with 1st on VTWC as it is because they don't want the free food and it is, for a walk-up, even off-peak, outrageously expensive.

I'd accept a 3-class split like Eurostar if the middle class was as I describe, but as the difference would be food it'd be just as easy to charge for food.

 

[Clip]

that's what happens when you fragment a national system.

No it really isn't.

 

[DarloRich]

What is 2+1 seating?

First and foremost your 1st class ticket is just to travel in a better seat with better leg room and better ambiance than standard.

Everything else above that is why its called complimentary and if the DfT was to set standards for TOCs to follow then say goodbye to any sort of good value 1st advances as they look to recoup those costs.

The cynicism. The accuracy.

 

[Clip]

What is 2+1 seating?

3 seating

 

[Mojo]

What is 2+1 seating?

Where there's 2 seats on one side of the aisle and one seat on the other; like on all Intercity Tocs and some others too.

 

[DarloRich]

Where there's 2 seats on one side of the aisle and one seat on the other; like on all Intercity Tocs and some others too.

I wouldn't know. Most often in standard class we cant see the seats due to the scrum

no tables of 4 then?

 

[Mojo]

no tables of 4 then?

Yes, they are on the side of two.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, they are on the side of two.

oh! i thought you meant tables of two down one side and individual seats down the other.

 

[Bletchleyite]

oh! i thought you meant tables of two down one side and individual seats down the other.

No, they are often all tables (tables for 4 on one side, tables for 2 on the other side) but there is increasing demand for single airline seats on the 1 side (particularly from VTWC crew ).

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

oh! i thought you meant tables of two down one side and individual seats down the other.

They have a mix of two's and fours and the opposite side is single's (on voyagers at least)

 

[DarloRich]

No, they are often all tables (tables for 4 on one side, tables for 2 on the other side) but there is increasing demand for single airline seats on the 1 side (particularly from VTWC crew ).

Cheers - Although thinking about it there might not be the demand for groups travelling FC meaning less mobile executive meetings

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cheers - Although thinking about it there might not be the demand for groups travelling FC meaning less mobile executive meetings

It's increasingly a leisure product, I find - companies increasingly don't allow it and require Standard (unless 1st is cheaper which it occasionally is where an Advance is available in 1st but not Std).

 

[Railops]

I had no idea we had first class because from what I've encountered it's hardly any different from cattle class.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'd accept a 3-class split like Eurostar if the middle class was as I describe

Although Silver Standard back in the days of Intercity wasn't ever very well taken up.

 

[BluePenguin]

I'd rather 1st was just 2+1 window aligned seating at a sensible markup (50-60% extra) and food was chargeable, personally.

But who wants to pay double the price or more for a different seat layout that is slightly more comfortable to sit on and then buy over priced food? The drinks, snacks and meals are what is expected and usually the reason people opt for first class in the first place.

Last time I went to Birmingham, I thought I would treat myself to first class as it was only £2 more. The lounge was nice and cosy but nothing exciting. On board I was given a nice cup of coffee and a large and tasty muffin - no breakfast as it was the weekend. Had I been paying £30 - £70 then I would definitely have expected drinks, snacks and at least one hot meal to be included. If I hadn't got this then I think I would have had reasonable ground to complain.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd rather 1st was just 2+1 window aligned seating at a sensible markup (50-60% extra) and food was chargeable, personally.

This.

The food is almost always better quality and better presented when there’s a bill to be placed in front of you at the end.

Complimentary offers are usually pretty weak.

 

[ag51ruk]

But who wants to pay double the price or more for a different seat layout that is slightly more comfortable to sit on and then buy over priced food? The drinks, snacks and meals are what is expected and usually the reason people opt for first class in the first place.

For most of the history of UK railways, food and drink in First Class was chargeable - the benefit was more personal space, and a better chance of a seat on busy trains. Even GNER (often praised as one of the best privatised TOCs) charged for food in First Class, and plenty of people used it.

 

[Polarbear]

Although Silver Standard back in the days of Intercity wasn't ever very well taken up.

The reason for that (IMO) was the absolute insistence on having an Open Standard return, with no option of an upgrade using less expensive tickets. Even All Line Rovers were excluded!

 

[Darandio]

Had I been paying £30 - £70 then I would definitely have expected drinks, snacks and at least one hot meal to be included. If I hadn't got this then I think I would have had reasonable ground to complain.

Which TOC? Are hot meals advertised as part of your First Class ticket?

 

[mpthomson]

It's increasingly a leisure product, I find - companies increasingly don't allow it and require Standard (unless 1st is cheaper which it occasionally is where an Advance is available in 1st but not Std).

Very much depends on your level in the business and the advantages of working on the move. My hourly rate means it's worth sending me 1st as I can work on the train, which normally mostly offsets the cost (certainly on anything over 90mins). There isn't the room to spread out laptop, papers etc in standard, so it ends up as dead paid time.

Less fussed about food to be honest, although free tea/coffee is OK.

 

[BluePenguin]

Which TOC? Are hot meals advertised as part of your First Class ticket?

It was Virgin West Coast. Yes hot meals are advertised on the website as one of the many perks of buying a first class ticket. Paying £30 - £70 extra is enough to buy a 3 course meal for a few people in a restaurant