• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Could Metrolink trams be the solution for the Rose Hill Marple line?

Status
Not open for further replies.

peters

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jul 2020
Messages
916
Location
Cheshire
Lack of through ticketing from Metrolink stations to National Rail stations outwith the Greater Manchester area has always been an issue since Metrolink started in 1992, the original Metrolink TVMs were certainly somewhat rudimentary.

I think at that time railway stations had ticket machines that just sold to the most popular destinations, if you wanted another destination you needed to use the ticket office or buy on board. However, the railways have moved on with the ability to buy a ticket to any station from any machine and the ability to buy online and collect from a ticket machine. Metrolink have fancy new machines and have introduced mobile ticketing and the ability to use a London style contactless system to touch in and out but they haven't addressed the lack of ability to buy tickets to stations outside Greater Manchester or to allow tickets to be interchangeable between train and tram.

The Altrincham line was shut for just under six months for conversion from heavy rail to Metrolink, this from from end of service on Christmas Eve 1991 to mid June 1992. The replacement buses in the meantime were a pain!

I read that Chester services were diverted in 1989 while Metrolink opened in 1992 but maybe the local Altrincham to Manchester stoppers continued using the line for longer. If the number of trains serving Sale was reduced for 2 years prior to a 6 month closure then I wonder whether the "passengers doubled following Metrolink conversion" claim relates to the last year of the full service or whether it involves comparing a year when rail services were running at a reduced level to a year when Metrolink was at its prime.

I recall the Altrincham line was also closed for two lengthy periods in the 00s. On the first occasion Northern brought some Pacers out of storage to lengthen Chester to Manchester via Altrincham services and Metrolink passengers were allowed to use the train instead, as well as bus services. On the second occasion the Pacers had gone to the South West so that wasn't possible and I seem to recall media reports about how everything that could go wrong with replacement buses did, like 40 seater buses turning up at peak times and there being long waits between replacement buses.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,324
I read that Chester services were diverted in 1989 while Metrolink opened in 1992 but maybe the local Altrincham to Manchester stoppers continued using the line for longer.
The Chester DMUs were indeed diverted via Baguley in the late 1980's, initially weekdays, then at weekends as well, but there's no maybe as regards EMU stoppers continuing via Sale until December 1991!
 
Last edited:

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,214
The Altrincham line was shut for just under six months for conversion from heavy rail to Metrolink, this from from end of service on Christmas Eve 1991 to mid June 1992. The replacement buses in the meantime were a pain!

Some works were started whilst BR trains were still running, such as mouting the new signals (but not commissioning them), and the Altrincham/Navigation Road track layout was remodelled earlier on in 1991 - there was definitely a period of running BR trains on the current line before closure.

On the Bury line, installation of the overhead wires was done overnight whilst BR trains were still running on the daytime.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I recall the Altrincham line was also closed for two lengthy periods in the 00s.

3-4 month closure of both the Bury and Altrincham lines in Summer 2007 for pretty much complete renewal of what was legacy BR track (that was in a dire state by that point)
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,324
3-4 month closure of both the Bury and Altrincham lines in Summer 2007 for pretty much complete renewal of what was legacy BR track (that was in a dire state by that point)
Still a rough ride on the Metrolink Altrincham line section between Dane Road and Stretford. :rolleyes:
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,881
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
3-4 month closure of both the Bury and Altrincham lines in Summer 2007 for pretty much complete renewal of what was legacy BR track (that was in a dire state by that point)

It was in a dire state when the thing opened! It was very much done on the cheap initially, and then they've later come back and upgraded it to proper European "Stadtbahn" standards, as well as the new build sections being to those standards.

It started out as very much a poor relation to Merseyrail, and now is probably an equal albeit in a different way.
 

peters

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jul 2020
Messages
916
Location
Cheshire
Still a rough ride on the Metrolink Altrincham line section between Dane Road and Stretford. :rolleyes:

I've heard it suggested the poor ride is due to the new trams not being suited to the kind of track they used. The old trams were never that bad even before the work as done! When the new trams were first introduced there was an issue at Altrincham meaning the trams had to stop around 50m short of where the ticket machines and exit are.
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,324
Always been a bouncy ride between Dane Road and Stretford back in the days of BR class 304 electrics, then the original Metrolink T68s, and then now.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,881
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I've heard it suggested the poor ride is due to the new trams not being suited to the kind of track they used. The old trams were never that bad even before the work as done! When the new trams were first introduced there was an issue at Altrincham meaning the trams had to stop around 50m short of where the ticket machines and exit are.

I think that's a slight misunderstanding of what is actually the case.

There is a difference between train wheels/rails and tram ones. Tram rails/wheels are generally of a flatter profile and use the flanges to stay on the rail (these run in a groove on street rails). Train wheels are conical, and so the flanges are just a safety mechanism and for pointwork, they mostly do not contact the rail (and you know about it by hearing the racket when they do on steep curves). Because Metrolink is a bit of both, using both ex-BR train rail and tram rail, they had to use a compromise, which resulted in the excessive hunting (side to side judder) on the ex-BR track.

The new trams may well be less well adapted to this, but excessive hunting has always been an issue on Metrolink's non-street-running sections.
 
Last edited:

peters

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jul 2020
Messages
916
Location
Cheshire
Always been a bouncy ride between Dane Road and Stretford back in the days of BR class 304 electrics, then the original Metrolink T68s, and then now.

It may have always been bouncy but until the new trams came along people didn't have to hold on to avoid being thrown out of their seats! I'm not sure bouncy is the best description for the current poor ride - that suggests up and down, when it's actually up and down, as well as side to side!
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,324
Definitely lateral movement as well as vertical. Can't do much good to either track or vehicles.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,214
It was in a dire state when the thing opened! It was very much done on the cheap initially, and then they've later come back and upgraded it to proper European "Stadtbahn" standards, as well as the new build sections being to those standards.

It started out as very much a poor relation to Merseyrail, and now is probably an equal albeit in a different way.

Just before the renewals, the Bury line had become a pretty much continuous Temporary Speed Restriction!
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Bringing it back on topic....

Rose Hill Marple's an oddity - surprising that 'stub' survived really.

Metrolink might be an idea - but is there a way to extend it southwards towards Hazel Grove or across to Stockport ? Reinstating to Macclesfield will never happen and would be a waste of time and money but making it more useful somehow might be worth exploring.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,881
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Rose Hill Marple's an oddity - surprising that 'stub' survived really.

I suspect in a properly integrated transport system it probably wouldn't - there'd be a bus sat there outside Marple (Bridge)[1] station waiting for each arrival from Manchester which would then do a loop of the "village" and come back 5 minutes before the next Manchester bound train, and it'd be on the same ticket so no extra cost. Without that it is probably needed as it's up a steep hill to Marple proper from Marple Bridge station (it doesn't look steep on Google Street View as the car is going up/down it - if you're there you'll know it actually is!)

[1] Does anyone else think the naming is backwards? Rose Hill Marple is in Marple proper, Marple station is in Marple Bridge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top