Cornwall Metro funding approved

[northernbelle]

Precisely, the amount of seemingly intelligent people on here who literally think that the purpose of this scheme is for people only travelling from Newquay through to Falmouth docks is astonishing.

By the same token the Weymouth to Gloucester services must be virtually useless, not full to bursting!

 

[RPI]

By the same token the Weymouth to Gloucester services must be virtually useless, not full to bursting!

Exactly. I've been working at Newquay station most of this week, and despite the huge numbers arriving for Boardmasters, there is significant local traffic to Truro and west Cornwall by train, mostly day trippers

 

[Busaholic]

If you are looking at end to end journeys you're missing the point of this sort of through service, which is about multiple overlapping local journeys. How many people travel from Euston to Watford Junction on London Overground? How many from Southport to Stalybridge?

I was replying to a post about the low number of people wanting to travel between the two termini. I'm not missing the point about the aim of the service at all, which I think is admirable and I support.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2024 ==

Exactly. I've been working at Newquay station most of this week, and despite the huge numbers arriving for Boardmasters, there is significant local traffic to Truro and west Cornwall by train, mostly day trippers

West Cornwall hasn't had decent public transport connections to Newquay for the 30 odd years I've lived here and probably since the 'other' railway route got closed in the Beeching cuts. Of course, the vast majority of local bus services not being operated because of a strike has an effect too!

 

[RPI]

I was replying to a post about the low number of people wanting to travel between the two termini. I'm not missing the point about the aim of the service at all, which I think is admirable and I support.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2024 ==


West Cornwall hasn't had decent public transport connections to Newquay for the 30 odd years I've lived here and probably since the 'other' railway route got closed in the Beeching cuts. Of course, the vast majority of local bus services not being operated because of a strike has an effect too!

It's the same whenever I work to Newquay, a lot come back out on the morning trains to places in West Cornwall, more often than not St Ives, despite the two hour journey time!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2024 ==

As I said before, I've been working at Newquay all week, contractors are now on site I believe to begin the preparatory work at Newquay, they were originally planned to have started last week, but this was deferred due to the obvious issues this would cause with Boardmasters. The contractors have been there setting up near the site of the old signalbox.

 

[davetheguard]

contractors are now on site I believe to begin the preparatory work at Newquay,

Just to confirm, are they there to deliver the extra platform?

Good news, if yes!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

How does an extra platform help anyway? It's only going to do anything if there's any intention for two trains to be platformed there at the same time, which seems completely unnecessary for an hourly metro service. Or is it so you can still run the occasional London trains?

 

[RPI]

How does an extra platform help anyway? It's only going to do anything if there's any intention for two trains to be platformed there at the same time, which seems completely unnecessary for an hourly metro service. Or is it so you can still run the occasional London trains?

The stated reason is so that the summer IET workings can use the platform whilst being cleaned on the turnaround and the local service can continue to operate in and out of the short platform.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2024 ==

Just to confirm, are they there to deliver the extra platform?

Good news, if yes!

I don't know the details, but there were several vans and welfare units, colas were the contractors on site

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The stated reason is so that the summer IET workings can use the platform whilst being cleaned on the turnaround and the local service can continue to operate in and out of the short platform.

OK that makes sense and is something like what I was guessing. So that's a lot of work just to allow a couple of trains a day in the summer from London

I'm trying to figure out how they could fit IET workings in, with most of the branch still being single track? Off the top of my head, the only ways I can imagine it being done are:

(a) The IET replaces a metro service in whatever hour it runs. But that seems unlikely because it doesn't fit with what you've said about the local service continuing to operate while the IET occupies the Newquay platform.
(b) The IET closely precedes or follows a metro service, so that both trains can go in the passing loop at the same time to make way for the service coming the other way. That would seem to require some extensive signalling work though to allow that.

Does anyone know what is actually being planned?

 

[CornishDave]

The plan is to build an extra platform at Newquay, and an extra passing loop at Tregoss Moor (where the local services will pass each other).

This gives you the infrastructure to run a consistent hourly local service, plus the summer long-distance trains as well as clay trains to/from Goonbarrow Junction.

I would imagine long-distance trains heading to Newquay would pass one of the locals at Goonbarrow Junction before arriving at Newquay with the second one ready to depart as it arrives.

 

[Brush 4]

No need to build the platform, it's still there and just needs upgrading. The reason for it is clear in these 2 photos.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[yorksrob]

OK that makes sense and is something like what I was guessing. So that's a lot of work just to allow a couple of trains a day in the summer from London

I'm trying to figure out how they could fit IET workings in, with most of the branch still being single track? Off the top of my head, the only ways I can imagine it being done are:

(a) The IET replaces a metro service in whatever hour it runs. But that seems unlikely because it doesn't fit with what you've said about the local service continuing to operate while the IET occupies the Newquay platform.
(b) The IET closely precedes or follows a metro service, so that both trains can go in the passing loop at the same time to make way for the service coming the other way. That would seem to require some extensive signalling work though to allow that.

Does anyone know what is actually being planned?

It will help resilience if a unit gets into difficulty and has to be rescued.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The plan is to build an extra platform at Newquay, and an extra passing loop at Tregoss Moor (where the local services will pass each other).

This gives you the infrastructure to run a consistent hourly local service, plus the summer long-distance trains as well as clay trains to/from Goonbarrow Junction.

I would imagine long-distance trains heading to Newquay would pass one of the locals at Goonbarrow Junction before arriving at Newquay with the second one ready to depart as it arrives.

Ah OK, so from what you're saying, I'm inferring that there is already at least one passing loop on the line, so the loop being built for the metro won't be the only place trains can pass, right? My previous comments were based on the assumption the line is currently basically a long single track siding, but it sounds like that's not the case?

 

[Gloster]

Ah OK, so from what you're saying, I'm inferring that there is already at least one passing loop on the line, so the loop being built for the metro won't be the only place trains can pass, right? My previous comments were based on the assumption the line is currently basically a long single track siding, but it sounds like that's not the case?

There is a loop at Goonbarrow Junction, which is six miles from Par, but there is nothing in the remaining fifteen miles to Newquay. (When I was down there the box and loop at St Dennis Junction (just west of Tregoss Moor) had just closed, and Newquay box was still open.) Newquay is just a dead end; it used to have three platforms and plenty of carriage sidings.

 

[CornishDave]

There's also a passing loop at St Blazey which passes trains every so often as well.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There's also a passing loop at St Blazey which passes trains every so often as well.

The signalling arrangements at St Blazey make crossing long trains very awkward indeed, particularly if the Up train is not able to immediately proceed onward to Par. Part of the issue will admittedly disappear once the electric token operations on the single line are converted to tokenless block next year, as at the moment a long down train standing in St Blazey loop prevents the signalman from crossing the line to collect the token from the approaching Up train. Holding it further back obstructs the overlap for the Up train, results in an extremely restrictive signal sequence coming down the 1:40 from Luxulyan and blocks several public foot crossings. Not ideal by any stretch!

 

[fgwrich]

Apologies if it's been answered already but are the plans available for the second platform? I've tried to look through the various Mid Cornwall Metro websites / links but have not found anything there either - Will it be an island platform using the second face of the current one or see the re-instatement of the second long platform?

 

[RPI]

Apologies if it's been answered already but are the plans available for the second platform? I've tried to look through the various Mid Cornwall Metro websites / links but have not found anything there either - Will it be an island platform using the second face of the current one or see the re-instatement of the second long platform?

No, there seems to be very little in the public domain, I did hear mention that the new platform will be able to hold a three car unit, this would seem a bit short sighted, maybe someone can clarify?

 

[Gloster]

Have they sold off most of the northernmost platform? So perhaps they are looking at a variation of the arrangement at Penryn, with a point at the ramp, one train stopping half-way down and the incoming one running past it to terminate up by the buffer stops.

 

[fgwrich]

Have they sold off most of the northernmost platform? So perhaps they are looking at a variation of the arrangement at Penryn, with a point at the ramp, one train stopping half-way down and the incoming one running past it to terminate up by the buffer stops.

That wouldn't work though if you're stabling an IET in the platform while trying to fit a normal branch service in as well.

 

[Gloster]

That wouldn't work though if you're stabling an IET in the platform while trying to fit a normal branch service in as well.

I was thinking that the point would be at the Par end. There would be one line alongside the sole (existing) platform that would be long enough to hold an IET; at the beach end of this track there would be a buffer stop and the end of the track: this would be a couple of hundred yards short of the existing buffer stops and station building. A second line would diverge at the point and run alongside where the IET could fit (to the north) and then, after passing the IET’s track’s buffer stop, would curve back alongside the one long platform to fit in before its buffer stop up by the station building.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Have they sold off most of the northernmost platform? So perhaps they are looking at a variation of the arrangement at Penryn, with a point at the ramp, one train stopping half-way down and the incoming one running past it to terminate up by the buffer stops.

From what I understood from reading the cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk discussion last year the Supermarket don't want to sell their platform (old P3 ) back unsurprisingly.
It will be platform one that is nearest to Tolcarne Road. The one near where there used to be a gasholder I think.

There's various plans to look at on the county council website. Link upthread I think.

There is mention of the 4000 housing development nearby and the need for Park & Ride / new Newquay station.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Platform 1, dating from the opening of the line, was extended in 1946 (when the viaduct was replaced and double-tracked) using elevated concrete sections. By the '80s these had been rendered unsafe and only short DMUs could use it before being taken out of use completely. It would be a major job to restore it to full length again so it will only be used by the branch DMU.

It would be nice if the terrible station environs could be improved - unfortunately the attractive buildings on Plat 1 have long gone.

 

[RPI]

Platform 1, dating from the opening of the line, was extended in 1946 (when the viaduct was replaced and double-tracked) using elevated concrete sections. By the '80s these had been rendered unsafe and only short DMUs could use it before being taken out of use completely. It would be a major job to restore it to full length again so it will only be used by the branch DMU.

It would be nice if the terrible station environs could be improved - unfortunately the attractive buildings on Plat 1 have long gone.

Part of the problem with the station is that it is a cut through for Asda and there is a constant stream of bikes and skateboards flying past, along with the dingy corner by the old first bus travel shop, almost needs razing to the ground completely along with the shops and starting again.

 

[D Williams]

Part of the problem with the station is that it is a cut through for Asda and there is a constant stream of bikes and skateboards flying past, along with the dingy corner by the old first bus travel shop, almost needs razing to the ground completely along with the shops and starting again.

This should be applied to the town of Newquay in general.

 

[Meerkat]

Part of the issue will admittedly disappear once the electric token operations on the single line are converted to tokenless block next year, as at the moment a long down train standing in St Blazey loop prevents the signalman from crossing the line to collect the token from the approaching Up train.

Is St Blazey to Goonbarrow becoming token less block? I had got the impression they were changing nothing between Par and the Newquay side of Goonbarrow??

 

[RPI]

This should be applied to the town of Newquay in general.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Gloster]

My recollection of Newquay, other than the box, is that is where I bought the worst Cornish pasty I have ever tasted. I love pasties, but this was probably the only time I have thrown one away largely uneaten.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Is St Blazey to Goonbarrow becoming token less block? I had got the impression they were changing nothing between Par and the Newquay side of Goonbarrow??

Yes - the semaphore signalling is being retained but the token working is removed. So trains that don’t need to stop to cross another service will be able to pass those locations rather than stopping to hand over the token.

(Presumably continuous track circuiting is being installed or some other form of single line protection.)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

No, there seems to be very little in the public domain, I did hear mention that the new platform will be able to hold a three car unit, this would seem a bit short sighted, maybe someone can clarify?

New platform will be 96m, so that comfortably accommodates a 4-car 150.

 

[Gloster]

Yes - the semaphore signalling is being retained but the token working is removed. So trains that don’t need to stop to cross another service will be able to pass those locations rather than stopping to hand over the token.

(Presumably continuous track circuiting is being installed or some other form of single line protection.)

Continuous track circuiting is not needed for tokenless block, just a number of track circuits at the end of each section that need to be occupied and cleared in sequence: tail lamp checks are still done by the signalmen. I don’t know about more modern variations, but the old WR tokenless block used colour lights, not semaphores.

 

[The exile]

Continuous track circuiting is not needed for tokenless block, just a number of track circuits at the end of each section that need to be occupied and cleared in sequence: tail lamp checks are still done by the signalmen. I don’t know about more modern variations, but the old WR tokenless block used colour lights, not semaphores.

Appears to a lot of new cable troughing sitting line side waiting to be installed