Cornwall Metro funding approved

[yorksrob]

So vibes in other words? This is your justification for many tens of millions of pounds of public money? It vibes well?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2024 ==


So that's about 90 seconds between them. Where's the other 26ish minutes we're looking for off the Par - Newquay time going to come from?

All policy is based on "vibes" to an extent - for example the freeze on fuel duty.

I'm not sure about roads to Newquay in particular, but some seem unsuitable for longish bus journeys (such as to Padstow).

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I'm all in favour of improving the Newquay branch to increase capacity so that long distance and local services can co-exist. The killer, however, is that rail is hopelessly uncompetitive on this axis - it is 13.1 miles from Newquay to Truro by car but 39.7 miles by rail; St. Austell isn't much better 16.5 miles v 25.1 miles. I agree that projecting services towards Plymouth rather than Falmouth would be a better option.

 

[The exile]

Since when did county boundaries become a factor in planning train services?

Well, they nearly did for the Penistone line in the early 1980s. Several other examples at PTE boundaries in the past.

 

[yorksrob]

My proud Devonian friend, who believes that there be devils after the Cornish border, says that there is no "technically" about Plymouth not being in Cornwall lol.....

From a geography point of view, the urban area of Plymouth appears to extend over the Tamar.

 

[Starmill]

All policy is based on "vibes" to an extent - for example the freeze on fuel duty.

That's fine if the councillors and ministers are honest about it. At the end of the day public money is spent by political decisions. But they're not being so, they're claiming there's a business case...

 

[irish_rail]

From a geography point of view, the urban area of Plymouth appears to extend over the Tamar.

Indeed it does. However you want to look at it, Torpoint and Saltash are treated as suburbs of Plymouth, despite both being in Cornwall. Many moons ago, Cornwall did actually stretch to Saltash passage (on the east side of the Tamar, so there is definitely a historic grey area!

 

[Xavi]

AECOM has announced it is to take Mid Cornwall Metro through to the detailed design stage. AECOM has already completed the outline design and business plan for the scheme. The announcement follows Cornwall Council Cabinet members agreeing to provisionally accept the offer of £50 million Levelling Up Funding towards the delivery of the £56.8 million Mid Cornwall Metro initiative in December.

Mid Cornwall Metro, led by Cornwall Council, Network Rail and Great Western Railway, will create a sustainable transport corridor between the county’s north and south coasts. It will improve the current links between four of Cornwall’s largest urban areas: Newquay, St Austell, Truro, and Falmouth/Penryn. The scheme has been designed to improve connectivity for people living, working, and studying in the county. Passengers currently must take three trains to travel from the north to the south of the count.

Susan Evans, Rail, Structures and Ground Engineering Director at AECOM said: “It’s fantastic news that we’re able to significantly progress Mid Cornwall Metro. The scheme will be transformative for the local community by improving access to jobs, education and amenities through improved transportation and mobility connections. It will offer a more sustainable alternative to car use, with wider scheme initiatives such as station improvements and ticket digitalisation delivering a better user experience for passengers.” AECOM is delivering the work on the Newquay branch line, which is the main scope of works. The line is currently a single track and AECOM will design a passing loop and additional line into Newquay Station and upgrade associated station infrastructure, platform and signalling, along with environmental enhancement.

AECOM has been appointed as engineering lead for the scheme, coordinating various disciplines including track, civils, signalling, environmental, electrical and plant, and fire safety systems. The scheme is being delivered through the South Rail Systems Alliance (SRSA), a 10-year Framework awarded in 2019 between Network Rail, Colas, and AECOM for delivery of railway systems renewals across three Network Rail Regions in the South of the UK, Western & Wales, Southern and Anglia. Colas is the designer for the signalling and telecoms.

AECOM to take Mid Cornwall Metro through to detailed design stage | RailBusinessDaily

AECOM has announced it is to take Mid Cornwall Metro through to the detailed design stage. AECOM has already completed the outline design and business AECOM has announced it is to take Mid Cornwall Metro through to the detailed design stage.

news.railbusinessdaily.com

I believe South Rail Systems Alliance also delivered Okehampton which ran to programme and under budget, hopefully Cornwall Metro (on an operational railway) will be similar.

 

[CptCharlee]

Plymouth is included into the Cornwall PAYG Smartcard scheme with the South East Cornwall stations next phase expansion it seems which would be welcome.

 

[yorksrob]

Many moons ago, Cornwall did actually stretch to Saltash passage (on the east side of the Tamar, so there is definitely a historic grey area!

I must admit, I never knew that !

 

[davetheguard]

Many moons ago, Cornwall did actually stretch to Saltash passage (on the east side of the Tamar, so there is definitely a historic grey area!

I must admit, I never knew that !

And parts of the Rame peninsular, west of the Tamar, were in Devon - Kingsand & Mount Edgcumbe, hence this sign on the wall in Cawsand/Kingsand beside the Halfway House Inn

 

[nuneatonmark]

It's a shame this doesn't include the reopening of the direct route from Newquay to St Austall via the partly open freight line. It would make timings much more attractive.

 

[Deepgreen]

It is obviously good news for that part of Cornwall if and when it happens. I do however find rather puzzling the use of Metro in the title of the railway improvements. Metro is almost always associated with the provision of rapid transit in large urban areas. Mid Cornwall does not strike me as an urban area needing a rapid transit system. I can't see a turn up and go service applying to any of the towns and city in the scheme. "Metro" is a bit trendy perhaps. South Wales just about deserves the title.

But heyho, what's in a name?

Yes, clearly 'Metro' is a red herring here - it's short for 'metropolitan', which does not apply to the areas concerned. A 3tph train service is not what is meant/implied by a metro one!

 

[BayPaul]

Regardless of the usefulness (or not) of direct Newquay to Truro services, I think that an hourly Par to Newquay service will be a game changer on this route, particularly if coming from the east. Currently going from Devon to Newquay for the day is a simple decision - car is the only practical method, but it's a long day behind the wheel. It seems very ridiculous that probably the Cornish branch to the biggest town, and the biggest tourist destination has by far the worst service. With a reasonable train service as should happen based on this plan, I think I'd be going by rail on most occasions.

I think its a shame they haven't built the cut off line to get a direct St Austell to Newquay service (not via Par) which would have made the metro element much more viable, but I still think this looks like a worthwhile project.

 

[nanstallon]

In terms of the Newquay branch, this can't come soon enough, but I'm not sure that a zig-zag Newquay to Falmouth service will either be necessary or desirable. A late train arriving at Truro from Newquay, and going on to the single track Falmouth branch will play havoc with the branch timetable. Already the Cornwall main line and the Falmouth branch have a half hourly service during the day, and any more trains will need work on the line to increase capacity.

A better way would be to reinstate the old Newquay to Chacewater and Truro line, closed in 1963. But these days, with so many fingers in the pie, the £52M would just about cover the consultants' and feasibility studies!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2024 ==

Well, that's a judgement for voters in the devolved areas to make.

Cornwall, on the other hand, isn't a devolved administration, so the scheme will have to jump through various Whitehall hoops to get done anyway.

I.e. it won't happen!

 

[yorksrob]

In terms of the Newquay branch, this can't come soon enough, but I'm not sure that a zig-zag Newquay to Falmouth service will either be necessary or desirable. A late train arriving at Truro from Newquay, and going on to the single track Falmouth branch will play havoc with the branch timetable. Already the Cornwall main line and the Falmouth branch have a half hourly service during the day, and any more trains will need work on the line to increase capacity.

A better way would be to reinstate the old Newquay to Chacewater and Truro line, closed in 1963. But these days, with so many fingers in the pie, the £52M would just about cover the consultants' and feasibility studies!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2024 ==


I.e. it won't happen!

Perhaps if they started with a regular interval service between Newquay and St Austell.

 

[Cowley]

To get things back on topic the discussion about project costs vs value to the tax payer are now here:

Should cost benefits of new schemes be worked out in a different way?

That's fine if the councillors and ministers are honest about it. At the end of the day public money is spent by political decisions. But they're not being so, they're claiming there's a business case... I think there's a lot of vibes come down to benefits that aren't easily expressed in a...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Snow1964]

Government announcement, giving £50m to the project. Also mentions 700,000 extra seats per year (roughly 2000 per day)

Public transport links in Cornwall will be transformed thanks to £50 million of government investment to deliver the mid-Cornwall Metro Scheme.

In a visit to Newquay Station on 27 March 2024, Transport Secretary Mark Harper met with local leaders including St Austell and Newquay MP Steve Double to discuss progress on the major improvement project that will better connect residents to employment, business and education opportunities.

Initial benefits of the scheme will be delivered as early as May next year and – once complete in full by the end of 2025 – it will offer a new hourly coast-to-coast train service between Cornwall’s largest urban areas: Newquay, St Austell, Truro and Falmouth.  

It will bring vital infrastructure enhancements along the Newquay rail line including a second platform at Newquay station and an additional ‘passing loop’ on the tracks to increase capacity and allow extra services to run.

Passengers travelling along the rail route will also benefit from modern, more convenient digital ticketing, allowing them to simply ‘tap-in’ and ‘tap-out’, knowing they will always pay the best fare without needing to plan ahead or search for the right ticket.

£50 million boost to transform public transport in Cornwall

Cornwall passengers will experience hourly coast-to-coast train services between Newquay, St Austell, Truro and Falmouth.

www.gov.uk

 

[Amlag]

Once again we have ( today ) cancellation of trains on the Newquay branch due heavy rain causing some lineside flooding with again no specific location advised, that impacts on the single line and the ability to run trains.
This usually results in road transport between St Austell and Newquay for obvious reasons and with taxi/minibus serving the very lightly used minor stns.

I wonder what plans ( if any) Network Rail have in hand to carry out remedial and resilient drainage works to prevent this all too often reason for cancelling of Newquay Branch trains and before the spending of over £56 million on this Zig -Zag project.

 

[sor]

A website has been launched. Not terribly descriptive (no details on the improvements to Penryn, Roche and Bugle) but nonetheless it is there. Interesting to see that they intend to have the Newquay to Par element in place by May 25. I also didn’t know Par was getting an accessible footbridge.

Mid Cornwall Metro

Mid Cornwall Metro is a £56.8m project to transform local journeys - connecting people with work, study and leisure.

midcornwallmetro.com

 

[fgwrich]

A website has been launched. Not terribly descriptive (no details on the improvements to Penryn, Roche and Bugle) but nonetheless it is there. Interesting to see that they intend to have the Newquay to Par element in place by May 25. I also didn’t know Par was getting an accessible footbridge.

Mid Cornwall Metro

Mid Cornwall Metro is a £56.8m project to transform local journeys - connecting people with work, study and leisure.

midcornwallmetro.com

Has anyone actually come across any plans for the station yet? I've looked through this website and unfortunately, all it seems to give me is the detailed plans of the changes to the approach roads etc.

 

[DDB]

A website has been launched. Not terribly descriptive (no details on the improvements to Penryn, Roche and Bugle) but nonetheless it is there. Interesting to see that they intend to have the Newquay to Par element in place by May 25. I also didn’t know Par was getting an accessible footbridge.

Mid Cornwall Metro

Mid Cornwall Metro is a £56.8m project to transform local journeys - connecting people with work, study and leisure.

midcornwallmetro.com

I got briefly overexcited and thought they were saying this May and couldn't see how they would get the loop done in time!

I found the website interesting in which benefits it highlights. On this forum people often get obsessed with the benefits or otherwise of the end to end journey of the train rather than seeing that one service is an operationly convient way to provide many shorter journey benefits some of which may or may not overlap.

It highlights

• Hourly Newquay to Par
• 3rd train an hour Truro to St Austell
• Direct Falmouth to St Austell

not the end to end journey apart from the general connecting the 4 biggest urban areas.

 

[sor]

I got briefly overexcited and thought they were saying this May and couldn't see how they would get the loop done in time!

I found the website interesting in which benefits it highlights. On this forum people often get obsessed with the benefits or otherwise of the end to end journey of the train rather than seeing that one service is an operationly convient way to provide many shorter journey benefits some of which may or may not overlap.

It highlights

• Hourly Newquay to Par
• 3rd train an hour Truro to St Austell
• Direct Falmouth to St Austell

not the end to end journey apart from the general connecting the 4 biggest urban areas.

Much like how hardly anyone actually travels from Penzance to Aberdeen on that CrossCountry service!

Been saying this myself - I'm from the ACL part of the route and while I don't see myself going to Falmouth very often, I'd absolutely consider using the local station instead of going straight to St Austell or Bodmin as I do now. Depending on how well the service works of course - hopefully the timetables meshes with connections towards Plymouth too.

(that said - from experience a lot of people are happy to commute to Plymouth for university purposes, so if this opens up Falmouth as another option...)

 

[Meerkat]

Will the loop be used for the hourly standard service, or only when the long distance trains are also running?
It states 3TPH Austell-St Truro - does that mean that Par is only 2TPH and loses half of the current half hourly mainline service?
Any chance of Newquay station being redeveloped to be less of a hidden apology?
Tourists in Newquay might actually be prepared to do long trips through to Truro and Falmouth, rather than get the bus.

 

[jamieh27]

Plymouth is included into the Cornwall PAYG Smartcard scheme with the South East Cornwall stations next phase expansion it seems which would be welcome.

I knew that Cornwall PAYG will be expanded into Plymouth wouldn't surpise me if Devon and Cornwall get merged into Devon and Cornwall PAYG like the railcard one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2024 ==

I got briefly overexcited and thought they were saying this May and couldn't see how they would get the loop done in time!

I found the website interesting in which benefits it highlights. On this forum people often get obsessed with the benefits or otherwise of the end to end journey of the train rather than seeing that one service is an operationly convient way to provide many shorter journey benefits some of which may or may not overlap.

It highlights

• Hourly Newquay to Par
• 3rd train an hour Truro to St Austell
• Direct Falmouth to St Austell

not the end to end journey apart from the general connecting the 4 biggest urban areas.

Sadly it would take time and also tests and driver training etc. but in a year it will be in service. Its good that 3tph between Truro to St. Austell/Par.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2024 ==

Will the loop be used for the hourly standard service, or only when the long distance trains are also running?
It states 3TPH Austell-St Truro - does that mean that Par is only 2TPH and loses half of the current half hourly mainline service?
Any chance of Newquay station being redeveloped to be less of a hidden apology?
Tourists in Newquay might actually be prepared to do long trips through to Truro and Falmouth, rather than get the bus.

Im not sure, I thought Par would be included but possibly not as trains would have to reverse into Par.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

It highlights

• Hourly Newquay to Par
• 3rd train an hour Truro to St Austell
• Direct Falmouth to St Austell

not the end to end journey apart from the general connecting the 4 biggest urban areas.

Would it be better to turn round the trains at Par, therefore connecting/ running to Newquay? (Par signal box)

In the early 70's a lot of railway staff were saying they should have retained Truro, Chacewater, Goonhavern, Perranporth St Agnes and Newquay service instead of Par to Newquay.
The Beeching survey only counted Chacewater tickets/ receipts - a small village.
The signalling etc at Par was changed in the mid 70's to allow trains to access platform 3 in both directions, to allow a St Austell to Newquay service.
Also there was a Newquay to Plymouth service.

 

[CornishDave]

The 3tph between Truro and St Austell point is a headline stat as it mentions two big populations. It goes without saying that Par will also have the same frequency (give or take a couple throughout the day).

In terms of the new loop on the Newquay branch, this will be used by the metro trains to pass each other. Express services will pass the metro trains at Goonbarrow as per the current situation.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The 3tph between Truro and St Austell point is a headline stat as it mentions two big populations. It goes without saying that Par will also have the same frequency (give or take a couple throughout the day).

In terms of the new loop on the Newquay branch, this will be used by the metro trains to pass each other. Express services will pass the metro trains at Goonbarrow as per the current situation.

Surely the new loop can let 2 'express' pass each other, and metro services near the site of old St Dennis junction same as Goonbarrow.

 

[Meerkat]

It goes without saying that Par will also have the same frequency (give or take a couple throughout the day).

Does it go without saying? Or is the phrasing below because the occasional one misses Par?

From 2026 there will be three trains an hour between St Austell and Truro, and an increased frequency between Par, St Austell and Truro.

 

[CornishDave]

Does it go without saying? Or is the phrasing below because the occasional one misses Par?

It's because the odd one or two won't stop at Par as you say.

 

[jeemac]

In terms of the Newquay branch, this can't come soon enough,

Just a casual observation from somebody who lives a long way away, but enjoyed a holiday in Newquay last Summer reaching it by rail. I travel around the country a lot by train (and discounting places with no connection to the network at all) I don't think I've been to another decent-sized town with such an apology for a service. It made me sad when as an enthusiast, I'd seen pictures from even the 1980s of long intercity services, to arrive at a station which screamed 'faded glory' and 'lost opportunity'. The planned upgrades really can't come quickly enough, and I'm sure they will result in a substantial uptick in the usage of Par-Newquay and the intermediate stations.