Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
While it does get used for crossing the occasional charters etc. I understand there is a restriction on using LLanrwst for regular crossings due to the condition of the signalling.
But running a bus to fill the gaps would be good. With the improvements to the road down the valley, buses can usually do the journey faster than the train. When Express ran the commercial X1 service between Porthmadog - Blaenau - Llandudno, it matched the train timings with no problems.
Unfortunately the X1 service died with Express Motors. I can understand why the council didn't do anything to replace it, as at the time they were struggling to maintain some of the more strategically important routes left behind by Express. But it has left the southern end of the Conwy Valley very badly served by public transport.
I don't think it was that unfortunate per-se, because it was predatory and thus a subsidy sap. However I do think there's a potential role for both in the Valley - classically there were a couple of "rail replacement bus" runs to augment the timetable where it wasn't possible with a single unit to meet all the likely demands.
I can understand why the council didn't do anything to replace it, as at the time they were struggling to maintain some of the more strategically important routes left behind by Express. But it has left the southern end of the Conwy Valley very badly served by public transport.
There was a plan at one point for an hourly service down the east side of the Valley, in two of the hours it would be an electric bus and in the third one a train, and there was suggestion that some of the buses might continue elsewhere. I don't know what happened with that, though, I guess it fell victim to funding cuts.
Llew Jones picked it up (Express Motors shut abruptly due to the fraud prosecutions) and tried to run it commercially but it was not viable and subsidy was not available as the budget was spent.
There was a plan at one point for an hourly service down the east side of the Valley, in two of the hours it would be an electric bus and in the third one a train, and there was suggestion that some of the buses might continue elsewhere. I don't know what happened with that, though, I guess it fell victim to funding cuts.
That was part of what has become the T22 Caernarfon-Porthmadog-Blaenau electric bus service.
Long story. From, dodgy, memory: original concept was TfW bought the buses and a commercial operator would bid for a turnkey package, build the charging point and operate the specified Porthmadog?-Llandudno service. No bids or bid was outside budget, can't remember. Cyngor Gwynedd took over provisioning the charging point, picked Tanygrisiau where enough amps were available, planning consent failed, started again with Porthmadog yard. Many years have gone by and Trawscymru service pattern now favoured a new T22 2-hourly from Caernarfon interleaving with T2 from Bangor giving hourly through or connections Caernarfon-Porthmadog-Blaenau. Combination of fleet size and subsidy meaning north of Blaenau was scrapped. In reality the original idea was over-optimistic that the whole thing would be commercial.
Focus now really is regular connections at Betws with the Sherpa services and the new-ish Bangor-Llangollen T10 though that is 2-hourly and the train 3-hourly!
True for drivers. By public transport no-one in Porthmadog goes shopping in Llandudno, believe me. Takes about 3h, mostly via Bangor (1h30) so shop there.
it’s faster and hourly via Bangor too, despite the poor connections there. At least you can wait in the warm and dry unlike Blaenau.
I agree. Having been used to day trips to Llandudno, I was taken aback to find they are no longer possible, other than travelling via Bangor, at least for the outward journey. But the 4pm-ish departure from Llandudno is a usefully timed return. However, with the removal of this train, they are turning a next to useless service into a completely useless one.
I fear that they are going to alienate their existing customer base, in the hope of gaining a few extra commuters.
I agree. Having been used to day trips to Llandudno, I was taken aback to find they are no longer possible, other than travelling via Bangor, at least for the outward journey. But the 4pm-ish departure from Llandudno is a usefully timed return. However, with the removal of this train, they are turning a next to useless service into a completely useless one.
I don't think it was that unfortunate per-se, because it was predatory and thus a subsidy sap. However I do think there's a potential role for both in the Valley - classically there were a couple of "rail replacement bus" runs to augment the timetable where it wasn't possible with a single unit to meet all the likely demands.
I understood that it was a commercial service, so not subsidised?
I do recall a time when the council ran buses to augment the train services. But wasn't that on Sundays? Back in the era when the Valley line was operated by two units, except on Sundays.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Look at the times you would have to leave Porthmadog (let alone places like Criccieth, Morfa Bychan, Borth y Gest etc), and the times you would get back to those places.
Look at the times you would have to leave Porthmadog (let alone places like Criccieth, Morfa Bychan, Borth y Gest etc), and the times you would get back to those places.
I'm not sure travelling all the way inland to the Conwy Valley is a sensible way to make a trip to Llandudno from those places a long way west. Up to Bangor and onward makes more sense. This is not something that should be influencing the times of trains on a line a long way west.
Which is all very well, but I would bet that a significant proportion of those working in Llandudno aren't working old fashioned 9 to 5 hours, which this seems to be tailored for.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I'm not sure travelling all the way inland to the Conwy Valley is a sensible way to make a trip to Llandudno from those places a long way west. Up to Bangor and onward makes more sense. This is not something that should be influencing the times of trains on a line a long way west.
Have you ever travelled from Porthmadog to Llandudno via Bangor by bus? It is a long and tedious journey that would put all but the most diehard into their car. Straight up the Conwy Valley is the obvious way to do it, and is the way anybody with a car does it. Nobody in their right mind is going to go the long way around via Caernarfon and Bangor unless they have to.
Blaenau is a very small town, even if you include Llan. It is unlikely to generate significant traffic for the Valley line. The greater Porthmadog area (including Morfa, ByG, Criccieth etc) on the other hand has a significantly larger population, almost all of whom regard Llandudno as their nearest major town. And the population is significantly swelled in the summer by tourists. Ignoring such a major source of traffic makes no sense.
Blaenau is a very small town, even if you include Llan. It is unlikely to generate significant traffic for the Valley line. The greater Porthmadog area (including Morfa, ByG, Criccieth etc) on the other hand has a significantly larger population, almost all of whom regard Llandudno as their nearest major town. And the population is significantly swelled in the summer by tourists. Ignoring such a major source of traffic makes no sense.
Exactly the point. Few people make the transfer these days because the connections are hopeless. As another poster said, who wants to spend an hour in Blaenau on a cold and wet evening?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I wonder what the Ffestiniog Railway are going to make of this timetable?
Currently, you can leave Llandudno at 1012, and be back for 1847, giving you 6 hours in Blaenau. You can take the FfR's Quarryman service from Blaenau at 1140, have over two hours in Porthmadog for a leisurely lunch and look-around, and be back into Blaenau in plenty of time to catch the train back to Llandudno. This has proved so popular, that the train has run almost every week this year during the season.
In future, in order to have six hours in Blaenau, you will either have to leave Llandudno at 0810 in the morning, or accept getting back at 8pm, neither of which is going to be attractive to most tourists. The alternative is that you only have three hours in Blaenau - this would just about give you time for a trip on the FfR down to Porthmadog and back if the train times matched, but not enough time for a family to have a meal in Porthmadog. You would effectively be spending the whole day on trains, with little break, which again isn't going to be attractive to most families.
Likewise for those wanting to visit the quarries, three hours isn't enough, by the time you have got there and back.
It looks to me like they are prioritising the northern half of the line, over the southerrn half. As exemplified by the good connections with the S1 at Bettws, as opposed to the appalling connections with the T22 at Blaenau. I suppose this makes sense, as the largest customer base is at the northern end of the line, and more people want to travel to and from Bettws than Blaenau (even today, the trains almost empty at Bettws).
I am tempted to say that it would be best just to put the southern half of the line out of its misery quickly and humanly, rather than make it ever more unattractive until it finally dies on the vine. But closing it would probably be politically unacceptable. But it might be worth considering just running one early morning service from Blaenau to Llandudno (say the proposed 0800 arrival), and another return to Blaenau in the evening (say the 8pm from Llandudno), but time them for decent connections at Blaenau, and the rest of the day have the train just shuttle between Llandudno and Bettws.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
