Conwy Valley line timetable changes proposal.

[Rhys4567]

TFW are proposing some changes to the Conwy Valley line timetable in Dec 2026.

Seems to be better times for most users.

Conwy Valley December 2026 Timetable - Engagement

Transport for Wales is seeking feedback from passengers and stakeholders on a proposed new train timetable for the Conwy Valley line, with changes planned to take effect from December 2026. We are keen to understand whether the revised timetable meets the needs of

haveyoursay.tfw.wales

Transport for Wales is seeking feedback from passengers and stakeholders on a proposed new train timetable for the Conwy Valley line, with changes planned to take effect from December 2026. We are keen to understand whether the revised timetable meets the needs of customers and how it could be improved to better serve local communities.

The engagement period will run from Monday, 13 October 2025 to Friday, 28 November 2025

The Conwy Valley line primarily supports local travel to and from Llandudno. There is increased leisure demand during the summer months for journeys to Eryri and Betws-y-Coed.

Key Issues with the Current Timetable:

• Limited early morning connectivity: The first train from Blaenau Ffestiniog does not currently run through to Llandudno. (We aim to address this in the May 2026 timetable update.)
• Operational constraints: Midday services include additional Llandudno - Llandudno Junction trips, which create a tight and often unreliable schedule. (This will be addressed in the May 2026 timetable update.)
• Poor integration with other transport modes: Journeys are currently timed to connect into or out of Sherpa S1 at Betws-y-Coed; but this means they don’t connect well with the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railway and the T22 bus service at Blaenau Ffestiniog.
• Commuter inconvenience: The 16:12 departure from Llandudno is too early for many regular commuters.
• Limited evening options: The last train from Llandudno departs at 19:04, which is too early for those wishing to spend an evening in Llandudno.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seems very positive to me. There's a commuter timed train to Llandudno (not ridiculously early like before), there's a commuter timed train back (though it could perhaps do with being half an hour later in case some retail staff can't get there for 1725 - I'd go for 1745 myself if possible), there are obvious trains to pop down to the excellent Alpine Cafe at Betws for lunch and back (gives you just over an hour), there are trains timed obviously for a day out walking both with and without a trip to the pub afterwards! Plus a later evening train down the Valley which makes a weekend away from Liverpool/Manchester after work more feasible (or even London if you can get out a bit early). And all done without taking a round trip out as I've proposed in the past.

Well done TfW! I think the only real losers there are anyone who was commuting to Chester, but I wonder if anyone actually was? Plus possibly school traffic, but could a bus be put on for that around 1545? There always was an afternoon bus years ago which filled a gap as you can't do both schools and commuters with one unit; a round trip takes too long to serve both markets.

For a long time it's been a blind "every 3 hours" which I don't think serves anyone particularly well. I do support Takt but when you go below hourly it has far less value than trains timed for specific purposes. While the line is much busier now the parallel bus service no longer runs, I always thought the poor timetable, which has been in place for 20-odd years now, has been throwing away custom by not catering to anyone bar flexible day-tripper leisure travellers particularly well.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I know those Festiniog Railway trains are hit/miss in terms of what runs on what day, but not sure I’d fancy relying on the 1535 - 1538 ‘connection’ at Blaenau with the next train to Llandudno more than 3hrs later! Other than that, it looks like an improvement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know those Festiniog Railway trains are hit/miss in terms of what runs on what day, but not sure I’d fancy relying on the 1535 - 1538 ‘connection’ at Blaenau with the next train to Llandudno more than 3hrs later! Other than that, it looks like an improvement.

If you were going to shift the commuter-timed train a bit later (as I think they should) it might be possible to loosen that connection a bit.

 

[Farigiraf]

The marketing of improved connections at Blaenau from the T22 doesn't state outright that those 'improved connections' can still be up to an hour. Still more integrated that it is currently though.

The next step towards running a decent combined local/tourist railway would be frequency increases, but this proposed timetable seems like a good way of utilising the current infrastructure well.

It would be nice if some of the other lines which to the TOCs may be seen as basket cases could be optimised too, such as the Heart of Wales or Kyle lines

 

[Zomboid]

For a long time it's been a blind "every 3 hours" which I don't think serves anyone particularly well.

Not saying it's "blind", but the proposal is actually an every 3 hours thing, other than the 1725 from Llandudno

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not saying it's "blind", but the proposal is actually an every 3 hours thing, other than the 1725 from Llandudno

So it is! Curious how that one fits more useful purposes but the original one didn't.

Somewhere on here I proposed reducing by one round trip but with specific purposes for each trip, but I think this one does it a bit better.

 

[Zomboid]

I guess when it's that infrequent, *which* hours is very important.

I did Llandudno to Betwys over the summer, and the hour to visit the cafe and ride the little train wasn't enough. We did ok, but 4 hours is a long time to spend there with small children! I was surprised and disappointed to find that there's no playground in the village...

 

[alex17595]

Would be nice to finally be able to Blaenau from the East with enough time for a decent day out.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Would be nice to finally be able to Blaenau from the East with enough time for a decent day out.

On a summer Saturday, it used to be possible to catch the 0940 Birmingham-Holyhead (cl37 hauled) to Llandudno Junction, make a comfortable connection into the mid-morning service to Blaenau, which connected with a midday FR service to Porthmadog where one could spend 3-4 hours sightseeing etc. Depart back about 4pm, connecting into a Blaenau-Llandudno service which itself connected into an early evening Bangor-Crewe, for a further connection to Birmingham, arriving about 9pm.

An excellent daytrip with children in the summer holiday, complete with interesting haulage (noting the Blaenau train was still a heritage DMU) with various stunning scenery en-route and a nice destination, completely impractical today. How far we have fallen.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Pre the 3-hourly regular interval timetable, the trains were timed to meet the needs of Llanrwst secondary school pupils. The rigidly imposed, there must be no deviation, ever, Takt timetable destroyed that at a stroke. Does the new timetable serve that regular market?

 

[Zomboid]

Pre the 3-hourly regular interval timetable, the trains were timed to meet the needs of Llanrwst secondary school pupils. The rigidly imposed, there must be no deviation, ever, Takt timetable destroyed that at a stroke. Does the new timetable serve that regular market?

Based on the Betwys times, there's a southbound through Llanwrst a bit before 9, and a northbound a bit after 4. Which doesn't seem too bad for school traffic.

Not helpful for kids south of Llanwrst, but they'd need to use another unit for that.

 

[nwales58]

T22 connections are still unusable as this is largely a 1 hour shift.

I invite someone senior from TfW to join me for a 45 minute wait at Blaenau Ffestiniog on a wet windy autumn evening. Particularly now the Queens has burnt down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

T22 connections are still unusable as this is largely a 1 hour shift.

I invite someone senior from TfW to join me for a 45 minute wait at Blaenau Ffestiniog on a wet windy autumn evening. Particularly now the Queens has burnt down.

Surely the easiest thing to do here would be to change the bus timetable so it connects with the trains?

 

[Zomboid]

The bus is hourly through the day from Blaenau with a few extra short runs, so that would seem to be easier to move half an hour to make a sensible connection, if making a sensible connection is what TfW want to achieve.

 

[nwales58]

There is now a Gwynedd bus-Taktfahrplan hinging on connections in Porthmadog (actually 2 points in the hour) and Dolgellau, with wider Trawscymru connections. T22 alternates with T2 to give an hourly Caernarfon-Porthmadog service. So moving Blaenau-Caernarfon times has immediate effects as far as Bangor, Wrexham and Aberystwyth, and on to Carmarthen. The T22 long ayovers in Blaenau Ffestiniog are caused by this (though running on to Betws y Coed would be in dead time, outside of summer).

Nor are long distance rail-bus connections at Bangor, Porthmadog, Machynlleth and Aberyswyth good, Ruabon is only good in one direction out of 4, so we need 3/4 of Wales rail-bus coordinated re-timetabling, as well as fitting into existing paths into congested areas such as Manchester, Birmingham etc. Far from easy.

Even moving Conwy Valley train times to fit into the Gwynedd-wide bus timetable would only connect well in one direction at Blaenau Ffestiniog, that would break current bus connections at Betws so the Sherpa services (which connect at Pen y Pass and Beddgelert) and the new Bangor-Corwen(-Wrexham) would have to move too.

Edited to improve clarity.

 

[krus_aragon]

Based on the Betwys times, there's a southbound through Llanwrst a bit before 9, and a northbound a bit after 4. Which doesn't seem too bad for school traffic.

Not helpful for kids south of Llanwrst, but they'd need to use another unit for that.

Ysgol Dyffryn Conwy's school day runs from 08:55 to 15:15, so a train arriving at 08:55 won't quite do for morning registration.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ysgol Dyffryn Conwy's school day runs from 08:55 to 15:15, so a train arriving at 08:55 won't quite do for morning registration.

In this sort of place TfW should probably work with the school to adjust its day. There is after all no reason it has to be 0855 to 1515, it could equally be 0905 to 1525.

 

[30907]

In this sort of place TfW should probably work with the school to adjust its day. There is after all no reason it has to be 0855 to 1515, it could equally be 0905 to 1525.

Googlemaps says it's 16min walk, so 0915-1535 would be the earliest feasible.

More to the point, the present advertised school bus services run on the west side of the valley not the east, so the railway (which serves nowhere sinificant until you get to Glan Conwy) is no substitute.

 

[Llandudno]

I very much doubt m(any) school kids use the train to get to/from school at either Ysgol Dyffryn Conwy or Ysgol John Bright Llandudno…

 

[Belperpete]

If you are a tourist staying in Llandudno, and want to travel to Betws or Blaenau for a day out, you can currently catch a train at about 1015. In future, you will apparently have a choice of an 0810 train or an 1110 train. 0810 is far too early for most families, while if you catch the 1110, by the time you get to Betws or Blaenau, half the day is already gone.

Coming back, there is currently a train from Blaenau at about 1730, which seems to be quite popular. In future, you will apparently have a choice of 1538 or 1848. Hardly any point going if you are going to come back mid afternoon, particularly if you caught the 1110 from Llandudno so only arrived at 1230. Whereas the 1848 gets back to Llandudno at 2000, far too late for most families.

For those travelling from Porthmadog to Llandudno (and a lot of Porthmadog residents regard Llandudno as their closest big shopping centre), it looks like you have a choice of catching a bus from Porthmadog at 0810 or 1110. Again, 0810 is too early for most people, especially holiday makers, while if you catch the 1110 you don't get to Llandudno until 1400 - far too late.

Coming back, you can catch the 1410 from Llandudno - giving you a whole ten minutes in Llandudno if you only arrived there at 1400! Or you can catch the 1725, but that won't get you to Porthmadog until nearly 2000, again far too late for most families.

The above considers people travelling to or from Llandudno. For those coming from places like Rhyl etc who have to change at Llandudno Junction, it is going to be even worse. Likewise for those who are having to catch a bus from places like Black Rock into Porthmadog.

It looks like TFW are making the timetable as unattractive as possible for tourists and holidaymakers. And next to useless for local residents. If their aim is to kill off the Conwy Valley line, this is surely the way to do it. Then at least we might get a decent bus service that runs at useful times.

 

[Zomboid]

I was a tourist staying in Llandudno this summer and we had a day in Betwys by train. I found that getting the kids through breakfast and to the station for 1015 was actually quite stressful, and a later departure would have been more relaxed.

The nature of the 3 hourly timetable is that you get 1, 4 or 7 hours in Betwys, and for my family at least it wouldn't make any real difference if the 4 hour gap was 11-3 or 12-4.

But I/we are just one data point.

 

[nwales58]

For those travelling from Porthmadog to Llandudno (and a lot of Porthmadog residents regard Llandudno as their closest big shopping centre) …

True for drivers. By public transport no-one in Porthmadog goes shopping in Llandudno, believe me. Takes about 3h, mostly via Bangor (1h30) so shop there.

The above considers people travelling to or from Llandudno. For those coming from places like Rhyl etc …

it’s faster and hourly via Bangor too, despite the poor connections there. At least you can wait in the warm and dry unlike Blaenau.

What was originally promised was a Caernarfon-Porth-Blaenau-Llandudno electric bus which would have changed where we could travel easily.

Without a car we depend on the T2 to Bangor.

 

[Judith hambly]

a novel idea but how about running 2 units during the day at roughly 90 min intervals. i bet theres no spare unit thou

 

[30907]

The above considers people travelling to or from Llandudno. For those coming from places like Rhyl etc who have to change at Llandudno Junction, it is going to be even worse. Likewise for those who are having to catch a bus from places like Black Rock into Porthmadog.

It looks like TFW are making the timetable as unattractive as possible for tourists and holidaymakers. And next to useless for local residents. If their aim is to kill off the Conwy Valley line, this is surely the way to do it. Then at least we might get a decent bus service that runs at useful times.

So providing a commuter service into Llandudno is less important than catering from shoppers travelling from Black Rock (the most niche market ever?) or holidaymakers doing 3-hour journeys with young children?

Is there a better plan with current resources? My only suggestion would be to terminate some trains at Betws and/or the Junction to allow a modest increase in frequency between those two points.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So providing a commuter service into Llandudno is less important than catering from shoppers travelling from Black Rock (the most niche market ever?) or holidaymakers doing 3-hour journeys with young children?

Is there a better plan with current resources? My only suggestion would be to terminate some trains at Betws and/or the Junction to allow a modest increase in frequency between those two points.

A better plan would be to abandon the rigidity of a fixed interval timetable on routes where the frequency is very low and tailor the timetable to meet the likeliest source of regular traffic. In the case of the Conwy Valley that may mean also doing something to the chaotic nature of the mainline timetable along the coast, particularly west of 'the junction'. Thus releasing resources which can be shared between routes rather than a single unit being captive to the branch. Does Holyhead really need all those services, including Avanti, even allowing for it's port status/traffic?

 

[30907]

Does Holyhead really need all those services, including Avanti, even allowing for it's port status/traffic?

Possibly not, but Bangor certainly does, so you would struggle to release resources for enhancing other services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a better plan with current resources? My only suggestion would be to terminate some trains at Betws and/or the Junction to allow a modest increase in frequency between those two points.

I can't find it now but somewhere on here I did propose a 5 round trip timetable that better served specific markets. Though this proposal has a later last train which justifies the 6th (I didn't propose that as I assumed signalling shifts would render that uneconomic, but I guess not!)

I didn't find that terminating any at Betws (unless you terminated them all there and closed south thereof) was helpful in catering for any specific market, to be honest. But reducing frequency slightly did create more useful timings, e.g. two hours for lunch in Betws from Llandudno rather than one.

 

[Belperpete]

So providing a commuter service into Llandudno is less important than catering from shoppers travelling from Black Rock (the most niche market ever?) or holidaymakers doing 3-hour journeys with young children?

Commuters from where? All the likely places north of LLanrwst already have a far more frequent bus service, that I very much doubt people are going to desert for a three hourly train service.

Porthmadog is a hub for several bus routes, all of which potentially feed into the Blaenau Llandudno route. I used Black Rock as just one example of the many places so served.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Commuters from where? All the likely places north of LLanrwst already have a far more frequent bus service, that I very much doubt people are going to desert for a three hourly train service.

It doesn't so much matter that it's a three hourly service as that there are trains to suit the required times. People after all use the Chathill Flyer to commute to Newcastle, and that's even less frequent.