Contactless card on the underground

[KeithP]

Looks like The UK Cards Association have got it wrong too.

From their Q&As on the subject:

The first time I’ve used my contactless card is on the bus and it was declined. Why is that?

Card security means there is a set number of times you can use your contactless card before you need to enter a PIN. If this happens on a bus, you will need to use either cash or your Oyster. This may be inconvenient, but card security always comes first.

 

[island]

That doesn't make sense. When I make a contactless payment, the reader either says "approved" or "card check, insert card" right away. It happens far too fast for this to be done online. And buses have no online connection, but accept contactless cards.

 

[Stompehh]

Contactless payments are definitely offline.

The card has a limit, stored on the chip, of either a maximum amount (£) or maximum number of transactions (or both) that can be reached before a "reset" by pin entry is required.

When a transaction is made, the card reader checks this limit beforehand and updates it afterwards if accepted. The offline transactions are uploaded at the end of the day.

TfL are implementing capping by using the fact that the offline transactions are authorised UP TO a specific amount but they can take only part of the amount and void the rest. So if there were three transactions for £4 and the cap was £10, the first two would be fully captured, £2 of the third would be captured and the other £2 would be voided.

 

[a729]

Contactless payments are definitely offline.

The card has a limit, stored on the chip, of either a maximum amount (£) or maximum number of transactions (or both) that can be reached before a "reset" by pin entry is required.

When a transaction is made, the card reader checks this limit beforehand and updates it afterwards if accepted. The offline transactions are uploaded at the end of the day.

TfL are implementing capping by using the fact that the offline transactions are authorised UP TO a specific amount but they can take only part of the amount and void the rest. So if there were three transactions for £4 and the cap was £10, the first two would be fully captured, £2 of the third would be captured and the other £2 would be voided.

So what if you only had £10 available , surely TfL wouldn't be permitted to pre-authorise £12?

 

[maniacmartin]

That's why contactless cards are not given to customers that banks think are a major credit risk - because there is a risk of going overdrawn by a small amount

 

[a729]

That's why contactless cards are no given to customers that banks think are a major credit risk - because there is a risk of going overdrawn by a small amount

Especially with TfL been able to levy maximum fares!

 

[cf111]

I see , hence people with bad credit histories won't be able to get contactless cards

I don't have a good credit history (mainly because it's very sparse!) but my bank issued me a contactless card. I have a contactless Barclaycard as well which I keep around for emergencies.

 

[a729]

I don't have a good credit history (mainly because it's very sparse!) but my bank issued me a contactless card. I have a contactless Barclaycard as well which I keep around for emergencies.

I meant bad as in someone who has had defaults/missed payments or who regularly go into unauthorised ODs or regularly withdraw cash on a CC

 

[MikeWh]

Especially with TfL been able to levy maximum fares!

Many cases where a maximum fare is currently charged will not apply with back office resolution. They will be able to work out many journeys even with a missed touch.

 

[a729]

I don't have a good credit history (mainly because it's very sparse!) but my bank issued me a contactless card. I have a contactless Barclaycard as well which I keep around for emergencies.

I have 2 contactless cards for 'emergencies'!
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Many cases where a maximum fare is currently charged will not apply with back office resolution. They will be able to work out many journeys even with a missed touch.

Really? How? Especially for infrequent tube users

 

[Stompehh]

So what if you only had £10 available , surely TfL wouldn't be permitted to pre-authorise £12?

Yep they would, same as with other offline transactions now. That's one of the reasons why the £ limit and transaction number limit are there, so you can't go very far into an unauthorised overdraft.

 

[MikeWh]

Really? How? Especially for infrequent tube users

Well take this example. Touch in at Crayford and out at Lewisham NR half an hour later. Get distracted walking into the DLR part of the station and forget to touch in on the validator. Touch out at Canary Wharf a further half hour later. Currently that will be an incomplete journey for the second part, and indeed might cause further issues as the touch on the validator at CW will be an entry. However, when the back office reviews all the touches and times it will charge it as one journey from Crayford to Canary Wharf.

 

[Mojo]

For what it is worth; I am participating in a trial of CPCs on the Underground and buses and have been given a standard corporate credit card but not the PIN for it. I have also been told that the credit card is not to be used for anything other than touching on the yellow card readers on stations or buses.

I'm therefore not convinced that there is a requirement to enter a PIN on either the first, or after a certain number of uses, given I haven't been given one, and have also been also effectively told not to use it for anything which would require me to enter a PIN.

 

[Stompehh]

I'm therefore not convinced that there is a requirement to enter a PIN on either the first, or after a certain number of uses, given I haven't been given one, and have also been also effectively told not to use it for anything which would require me to enter a PIN.

It is set on a card by card basis, so whatever type of card you'd been given has just not had a limit set on it for the purposes of testing.

For normal bank-issued cards there definitely is a requirement to enter a pin sometimes, as is documented in the guides given out by all banks with the cards.

For what it's worth though, I've never had to do it on my card. I don't do that many contactless transactions in between pin entries though.

 

[a729]

Well take this example. Touch in at Crayford and out at Lewisham NR half an hour later. Get distracted walking into the DLR part of the station and forget to touch in on the validator. Touch out at Canary Wharf a further half hour later. Currently that will be an incomplete journey for the second part, and indeed might cause further issues as the touch on the validator at CW will be an entry. However, when the back office reviews all the touches and times it will charge it as one journey from Crayford to Canary Wharf.

Hmm but the possibility still remains of unexpected debits to my account using CPC on the tube!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm therefore not convinced that there is a requirement to enter a PIN on either the first, or after a certain number of uses

I think it depends on the issuing bank. The Halifax say they don't set a limit but that "usage is monitored" and "you may occasionally be asked to complete a Chip & PIN or signature transaction". I know I've had to provide a signature in Pret when using my card, although this may be a problem with their machine not my card.

This must have recently changed, as I'm sure I was told I had a maximum number of touches and a maximum transaction limit when I got the card last year.