Confusing things in France

[STEVIEBOY1]

I was in France a few days ago. I travelled back from Colmar to Paris Est on an older single deck TGV, which had come in I presume from Paris and had a 30 ish minute turn around.

I boarded the train when it came up on the indicator screens and went to my seat 22, which was backward facing, however just as I was about to get settled some one pointed out it was their seat 72, I looked and noticed that the illuminated seat number sign had changed from 22 to 72 as had other seat numbers too. I then had to walk down the carriage to find my seat again.

Does this happen often, it did seem rather odd that seat have two numbers, depending on direction of travel, however I did gain as the "new/correct" seat was now facing direction of travel by the window.


I also noted that more stations in France seem to have letters for platforms now rather than numbering. Some could find that confusing as letters are also used to indicate where to stand if you have a booked seat/coach.

Platforms are now noted as Voies, rather than Quais which it was when I was taught French in School, although sometimes you do still see Acces Aux Quais in the main part of stations.

 

[duncanp]

Similar things happen in the UK when Virgin Trains let everyone board a Pendolino to (say) Manchester Piccadilly and only switch on the electronic reservation system showing which seats are reserved afterwards.

I suppose if you change the seats numbers round, then you know that seat 22 is always facing the direction of travel.

Voie is French for track and Quai is platform but they mean the same thing.

 

[stut]

Voie and quai don't always mean the same thing - in the casr of an island platform, you may see one quai with two voies...

To add to the confusion, Paris-Lyon always used to refer to the departure areas (there are two when accessing from upstairs, separated by the booking office building) by the term plate-forme...

 

[Phil.]

Just to put one to bed......
Quai is the actual platform. Voi is the track. The American use a similar system of identification.
"Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga choo choo"?
"Track 29"
"Boy you can give me a shine".

Imagine a station such as Stevenage, Hemel Hempstead or Surbiton. Each station has two Quais and four voies.

 

[duncanp]

Just to put one to bed......
Quai is the actual platform. Voi is the track. The American use a similar system of identification.
"Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga choo choo"?
"Track 29"
"Boy you can give me a shine".

Imagine a station such as Stevenage, Hemel Hempstead or Surbiton. Each station has two Quais and four voies.

Or certain stations (Birmingham New Street) where platforms are numbered 1a, 1b etc, so 1 track can serve more than one platform

In the Dutch speaking parts of Belgium and the Netherlands they use Spoor (track) and Perron (platform) in the same way.

 

[317666]

Gleis (track) and Bahnsteig (platform) in Germany too.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the standard is still that "voies" have numbers and "quais" have letters. The "voie" is the one to use and usually more prominently signed.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I boarded the train when it came up on the indicator screens and went to my seat 22, which was backward facing, however just as I was about to get settled some one pointed out it was their seat 72, I looked and noticed that the illuminated seat number sign had changed from 22 to 72 as had other seat numbers too. I then had to walk down the carriage to find my seat again.

Does this happen often, it did seem rather odd that seat have two numbers, depending on direction of travel, however I did gain as the "new/correct" seat was now facing direction of travel by the window.

I had this happen at Montparnasse with a direct TGV for Lourdes in August 2013, only in that instance they reversed everything after about 90% of all the passengers had sat down and it was only about 5 minutes until departure - utter chaos within the carriage as something like 50 people, most with luggage, had to switch seats from one end of the carriage to the other!

So yes, it does happen...

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I had this happen at Montparnasse with a direct TGV for Lourdes in August 2013, only in that instance they reversed everything after about 90% of all the passengers had sat down and it was only about 5 minutes until departure - utter chaos within the carriage as something like 50 people, most with luggage, had to switch seats from one end of the carriage to the other!

So yes, it does happen...

Thanks for the replies here, glad it does not just happen to me. Apart from this little incident, the holiday was great.

 

[Gordon]

I think the standard is still that "voies" have numbers and "quais" have letters. The "voie" is the one to use and usually more prominently signed.

Not really.

As per previous answers I confirm that quai means the physical platform you stand on. Voie means the 'track' the train will run on (similar usage to the US and arguably more logical than UK parlance)

The commonest practice in the 1950s/60s/70s was to have Quai and voie, eg Quai B, voie 2 for example.

Nowadays, 'quai' has become less common, with many stations just having 'Voies', either numbered or lettered - no standard rule AFAIK.

Paris Gare de Lyon currently has all 'Voies' - some with letters and some numbers (I think designed to help distinguish between the disjointed parts of the station). Lyon Perrache station uses Voies - all lettered.

Lyon Part Dieu uses lettered Voies

Paris Est uses numbered Voies

So overall, to some up, I know of no hard and fast rule!




.

 

[hulabaloo]

This thread has left me more and more confused as it went on!

 

[Howardh]

This thread has left me more and more confused as it went on!

Quaip up

 

[WestCoast]

Gleis (track) and Bahnsteig (platform) in Germany too.

In the Dutch speaking parts of Belgium and the Netherlands they use Spoor (track) and Perron (platform) in the same way.

Just to add to the confusion, in German-speaking Switzerland they mix the two by referring to the Gleis (track) and Perron (platform).

Perron is also a word in German German and Austrian German, but is outdated and rarely seen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Voie is French for track and Quai is platform but they mean the same thing.

They don't necessarily, though in France, Germany etc this is a more technical thing.

If you have a station thus:

==============
##############
==============
==============
==============
##############
==============

you would expect the platform faces to be numbered 1, 2, 3 and 4, and in the UK they probably would be. In a country that deals in tracks, particularly Germany, they would be 1, 2, 5 and 6 - the actual tracks are numbered whether there is a platform face on them or not. You also, in Germany at least, often get weird numbers (track 41 and the likes) for tracks away from the mainline at a given station - e.g. Liskeard's Looe branch platform.

You've then got the Eastern European version, where the two *platforms* (not faces, the whole platform with two faces) would be labelled I and II (normally it is Roman numerals) and the tracks *may* be numbered as well, the PIS often containing both.

So not always the same

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just to add to the confusion, in German-speaking Switzerland they mix the two by referring to the Gleis (track) and Perron (platform).
Perron is also a word in German German and Austrian German, but is outdated and rarely seen.

Oddly, it's Peron in Poland.
I also think you are directed to Peron (platform) first, then the Tor (track) on that platform.
Pictures from Krakow Glowny.
You can see one sign which says 4 4 4 for Tor/Sektor/Peron respectively.

When there were 2 Germanys, I think it was Gleis on DB, and Bahnsteig on DR.
I don't know if usage has been unified along with the state.

 

[D1009]

Bahnsteig was also used in Austria, so it could be Bahnsteig 1, Gleis 6. I think these days they've got rid of the confusion at most places.

 

[johnnychips]

Makes me think our system of just sticking to platform numbers has something to be said for it. However I suppose travellers to the UK might be confused by the odd platform 0, and the numerous suffixes of 5a, 2b etc. , and following that, different trains departing from different ends of the same platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Makes me think our system of just sticking to platform numbers has something to be said for it. However I suppose travellers to the UK might be confused by the odd platform 0, and the numerous suffixes of 5a, 2b etc. , and following that, different trains departing from different ends of the same platform.

The suffixes are horribly inconsistent and do cause confusion, in the manner of 3c/4c at Preston. I would rather we divided up the platforms in the way the Swiss and Germans do (zones A-E) and dropped the suffix letters entirely.

 

[D1009]

The suffixes are horribly inconsistent and do cause confusion, in the manner of 3c/4c at Preston. I would rather we divided up the platforms in the way the Swiss and Germans do (zones A-E) and dropped the suffix letters entirely.

So would I, but they have "joined up thinking" which we don't. The nearest thing to that in the UK was the coloured zone system which is possibly still around at a few places, but I'm not sure.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So would I, but they have "joined up thinking" which we don't. The nearest thing to that in the UK was the coloured zone system which is possibly still around at a few places, but I'm not sure.

Virgin Trains have fairly recently painted numbers in circles on the platform surfaces instead.
I'm not sure if they are used for anything though.

 

[glbotu]

So would I, but they have "joined up thinking" which we don't. The nearest thing to that in the UK was the coloured zone system which is possibly still around at a few places, but I'm not sure.

They also usually have a little picture on the platform showing you which zones your train and coach are going to stop. In the UK, I find only that station's operator will have them (which is great at places like Durham, where more than one operator letters their trains, but only one of them actually puts those letters on the platform).

 

[Bletchleyite]

VT are using the numbers on the PIS to good effect.

 

[Hophead]

It is a pity that UK railways are so wedded to sequential platform numbers as this does lead to confusion over suffixes. It may be a bit OCD, but it's surely simpler, once you understand the rules, to find platform 41 at one end of platform 4, with 4a, 4b & 4c merely being sub-divisions of the full platform 4.

 

[30907]

It is a pity that UK railways are so wedded to sequential platform numbers as this does lead to confusion over suffixes. It may be a bit OCD, but it's surely simpler, once you understand the rules, to find platform 41 at one end of platform 4, with 4a, 4b & 4c merely being sub-divisions of the full platform 4.

Well, if 41 were always at the end of 4, that would be fine, but is that the case? I've not yet fathomed the DB system...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, if 41 were always at the end of 4, that would be fine, but is that the case? I've not yet fathomed the DB system...

I'm not 100% sure there is a consistent system, other than that the main platforms are normally 1-N and "subsidiary" platforms are higher numbers.

Coach numbering is also not sequential.

 

[CC 72100]

Coach numbering is also not sequential.

Or doesn't start from 1 - I've been on a train numbered 9 - 16 before despite being an 8 coach train.

 

[glbotu]

Or doesn't start from 1 - I've been on a train numbered 9 - 16 before despite being an 8 coach train.

That's usually because of splitting and joining somewhere en-route, whatever it is then joined to gets numbers 1-8.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's usually because of splitting and joining somewhere en-route, whatever it is then joined to gets numbers 1-8.

Indeed so, in the UK you see that as well.

On night trains in Germany you used to get stuff like 101, 102, 103 then 201, 202, 203 etc to keep numbers unique across portions splitting and joining with others, but the cuts to night services have probably killed that kind of thing off.

 

[duesselmartin]

many EC trains also have 100 numbers. ICE often operates with 20 and 30 numbers.

 

[CC 72100]

That's usually because of splitting and joining somewhere en-route, whatever it is then joined to gets numbers 1-8.

That I get, but this was a train that was 8 coaches throughout and was on all of its diagrams all day!