Conductor left behind

[M60lad]

Just found the following on Manchester Evening News website:

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...-train-is-left-on-platform-at-walkden-station

Passengers were evacuated from a train into Manchester after the conductor was left behind at a station.

The conductor was unable to close the door in a carriage from inside the train at Walkden station so got off and tried to close it from the outside. But as it shut, automatically sending a signal to the driver to go, the conductor could not get on in time and the train drove off.

Just after 8am at Moorside station passengers were told to get off the train and had to catch the next one, resulting in a 30-minute delay. Bosses said for safety reasons a train cannot run without its conductor.

Some passengers tweeted their anger at the delay.

One, Luke Smith, wrote on the social networking site: "A train full of people have been chucked out at Moorside and told to wait for the next train."

He added: "The train driver just got off the train in Moorside and left the train, 15 minutes late already. Joke!"

And another passenger, Janet Eastwood, tweeted: "Train from Wigan to Manchester threw us off at Moorside cos [sic] guard got off train. Oh and fares have gone up! Disgusting."

Salford Councillor Iain Lindley, who was on the 07.15 service from Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria, said: "As a regular commuter it is always frustrating when delays happen.

"But it is even more concerning when they are entirely avoidable and put the safety of passengers at risk.

"We were left stranded late for work on an open platform in atrocious weather. It must not happen again."

A Northern Rail Spokesman said: "A door fault at Walkden station resulted in the conductor being off the train as the doors closed and the train departed.

"On arrival at Moorside, its next station, the driver asked all passengers to depart the train, as for safety reasons it is not allowed to proceed without a conductor. We apologise to all customers who were affected by this event."

I always thought the conductor had to give right away before the train can move even after door or train related problems have been cleared, also surely the driver should have checked after the door was closed that the conductor was back on the train by leaning out of his window like I've seen them do at some stations

 

[district]

Is it wrong that I can't stop laughing? I'm just imagining an Inspector Blake type character being left behind and saying 'I 'ate you Butler!'.

 

[Mojo]

I always thought the conductor had to give right away before the train can move even after door or train related problems have been cleared, also surely the driver should have checked after the door was closed that the conductor was back on the train by leaning out of his window like I've seen them do at some stations

Do they dispatch trains at this station with RA indicators? It could have been the conductor got off to resolve the problem, the doors closed giving interlock and the dispatcher didn't notice, giving the RA to the driver.

Reminds me of an incident on the Piccadilly line in 1993 where a Train Operator hung his bag from the dead mans handle, got off the train to investigate a door fault, interlock was gained and the train powered off leaving the Train Operator stood on the platform.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Is it wrong that I can't stop laughing? I'm just imagining an Inspector Blake type character being left behind and saying 'I 'ate you Butler!'.

Haha well you're not the only one who found it slightly amusing, I can just imagine the Guard banging on the doors and blowing his/her whistle like mad to try and get the train to stop. Then once the train has pulled out they stamp their foot on the ground saying "ffs" knowing how embarassing it will sound when they ring up Northern control
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do they dispatch trains at this station with RA indicators? It could have been the conductor got off to resolve the problem, the doors closed giving interlock and the dispatcher didn't notice, giving the RA to the driver.

I don't think there's any dispatch staff at this station, it looks rather small! So if there was RA then I'm not sure how it was pressed as the Guard wouldn't have done it if the train wasn't ready to depart! Maybe a passenger (or enthusiast!) went to the door controls and pushed the buzzer twice to give the starting signal!

 

[Trainbuff]

This has happenned to a Train Manager at Redruth on voyager type trains. He got off to shut a door that was faulty. He had already given the driver the ready to start signal and after clearing the blockage he got out and closed the door from outside. The driver then got interlock and departed leaving the Train manager on the station! The train was halted at Truro and subsequently cancelled. Mediscreens and investigation I guess!

 

[shedman]

My guess it'll have been a 150/1 and when the guard pressed the doors close button and stepped onto the platform out of the slam door to check the hazard lights extinguish the driver got his brake and just went I to auto-pilot and went. I've known it happen. But on the other hand, I also know that on HSTs you can get a rogue feed on the buzzer, I've had it happen to me countless time. Either way it's a bit of an embarrassing situation and hopefully no one is to blame.

 

[OuterDistant]

When Network Rail used to publish SPAD reports, I remember one from a few years ago where a passenger had given the "right away" on the guard's buzzer and the driver set off without him (it resulted in a SPAD because the driver reversed back to the station on his own authority after discovering the guard wasn't on board).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Do they dispatch trains at this station with RA indicators? It could have been the conductor got off to resolve the problem, the doors closed giving interlock and the dispatcher didn't notice, giving the RA to the driver....

No, ticket office staff only, guards dispatch the train.

 

[dave87016]

142033 and 150150 were the units working the service

 

[2Dogbox]

I've heard of this happening lots of times on 150/1s. It even nearly happened to me once many years ago when I closed the doors, then the booking office chap wanted to ask something (can't remember what now), I started talking to hear the engines revving up and seeing the train slowly moving. i jumped on it in time. I hadn't even given the buzzer and the driver went.

 

[175001]

RA on the Northern network around Manchester only happens at Victoria, Piccadilly and the Airport.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief at the level of journalism in this article.........automatic?!

 

[asylumxl]

While we don't have all the information, it does sound to me like the driver was on autopilot.

 

[142094]

What happens a lot with 142 doors is that the conductor will shut them from the back, give two buzzes and it is not until the driver tries to apply power that they'll notice that one of them is stuck and the interlocking hasn't been proved. The guard them checks the doors and shuts the problem one - but in some cases the driver can hear this/knows what is happening and applies power - and of course this time it can move.

From the sounds of it the guard did this from the outside and driver assumed the guard was still on board.

 

[CosherB]

I did hear of a train passing through a tunnel somewhere in North Manchester when the driver smelled smoke, so stopped and called the guard forward to the cab to consider whether they should evacuate. For some unknown reason (maybe the train was packed full) he got down and made his way forward at track level.

The driver then remembered that a steam special had passed through the tunnel just beofre, so off he went.

Leaving the guard standing in the tunnel!

 

[michael769]

Be interesting to see the RAIB report into this one....

 

[Lampshade]

Hmm, 142094's theory seems to be the most plausible.

 

[asylumxl]

Is there nothing to say if you don't have interlock when the signal is given to move off you should wait for a signal again?

Might make sense.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I thought the driver guard buzzer was designed not to work if there was no door interlock, even on pacers, is that not the case?

 

[Nick W]

Any chance a guard on this forum could describe what the correct procedure is for dealing with a door problem after the "right-away" signal has been given, please? Is there a way to "cancel" the signal?

 

[tbtc]

A Northern Rail Spokesman said: "...for safety reasons it is not allowed to proceed without a conductor"

142033 and 150150 were the units working the service

Going off at a tangent, but if there was only one conductor, and there was no corridor connection between the coupled units (which there wouldn't be if a Pacer was involved) then it was okay for one of the units to have no conductor (as long as there was one in a unit coupled to it)...

 

[175001]

tbtc, that's perfectly ok, as the Driver acts as a competent person in the front set, whist the Guard acts as the competent person in the rear set.

 

[142094]

I thought the driver guard buzzer was designed not to work if there was no door interlock, even on pacers, is that not the case?

Certainly not on Pacers, you can buzz with the doors open if you like (once heard this for police assistance).

Is there nothing to say if you don't have interlock when the signal is given to move off you should wait for a signal again?

Might make sense.

I bet there is - but teh thing is that with 142s in particular it is commonplace. Many a time I've been on one up here where the door hasn't closed properly, so the conductor has to traipse all the way down to find which door it is, and give it a boot. Sometimes the conductor will give another 2 buzzes, sometimes they shout to the driver, and occasionnally the driver will hear the door shut and automatically go to take power and move off.

 

[TEW]

I thought the driver guard buzzer was designed not to work if there was no door interlock, even on pacers, is that not the case?

That's only a feature on newer trains, I know 377s have it, not sure of any others. Sometimes there might be a need to use the buzzer with the doors open, like the example above of police assistance required.

 

[Schnellzug]

Th spirit of the Rev. Awdry is laughing.

 

[O L Leigh]

Is there no way for the guard to prove that interlock has been gained before giving the right away? Surely that seems like the most obvious thing. If you've still got an obstruction light showing then you can't give two on the buzzer, otherwise it's meaningless.

Perhaps one of my learned colleagues from the back cab can enlighten me.

O L Leigh

 

[Strat-tastic]

It's been such a long time since reading the buzz code meanings next to the drivers of the DMUs (Ref: other thread - those were the days ), so I could be wrong, but isn't there a code which means 'guard leaving train'?

 

[142094]

Is there no way for the guard to prove that interlock has been gained before giving the right away? Surely that seems like the most obvious thing. If you've still got an obstruction light showing then you can't give two on the buzzer, otherwise it's meaningless.

Perhaps one of my learned colleagues from the back cab can enlighten me.

O L Leigh

I don't believe there is on Pacers - it is only when the driver goes to apply power that they realise there is a problem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
AFAII there is only an interlock light in the cab and not at the local panels.

 

[CarterUSM]

Are there not hazard lights on the exterior of the unit? Though of course this doesn't help if it is the coach you are operating the doors from that has a sticky door. I know on the 380's the HMI,(Human Machine Interface, what a god awful term!) will flag up the offending door for the benefit of the driver, but plug doors are easier to observe open than sliding door stock of course anyway.

 

[142094]

Are there not hazard lights on the exterior of the unit? Though of course this doesn't help if it is the coach you are operating the doors from that has a sticky door. I know on the 380's the HMI,(Human Machine Interface, what a god awful term!) will flag up the offending door for the benefit of the driver, but plug doors are easier to observe open than sliding door stock of course anyway.

There is - although how many guards look at them is debateable. In many cases the doors look as if they have closed shut, but may be slightly open. Also, as you say, if it is the door at the other end of the same carriage as the local door then the light won't go out.

 

[scrapy]

Be interesting to see the RAIB report into this one....

No reason for the RAIB to investigate. Will probably just be an internal investigation. Driver and guard will probably be mediscreened and interviewed, OTDR downloaded and CCTV taken from platform. Results from investigation will probably never (officially)made public.