Compensation for short-formed services

[richiejv]

Hi all,

I recently registered a complaint with Greater Anglia as they have been frequently providing short-formed services over the past few months due to "more trains than usual needing repair". This has resulted in frequent over-crowding, often meaning that it has been a struggle to get on trains, particularly in the morning. When I have been able to get on to short-formed services they tend to be dangerously crowded. I heard back from GA today and they have offered me a one-off "goodwill" gesture of a £20 cheque to provide compensation.

Essentially, my question is, in the opinions of the fine folk of the Rail Forums, should I consider this sufficient and is there method for taking it further? My season ticket costs just over £3k for the year and this has been going on since January. I'm not usually one for making much of a fuss but the service has been so poor for so long and I'm fed up with it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi all,

I recently registered a complaint with Greater Anglia as they have been frequently providing short-formed services over the past few months due to "more trains than usual needing repair". This has resulted in frequent over-crowding, often meaning that it has been a struggle to get on trains, particularly in the morning. When I have been able to get on to short-formed services they tend to be dangerously crowded. I heard back from GA today and they have offered me a one-off "goodwill" gesture of a £20 cheque to provide compensation.

Essentially, my question is, in the opinions of the fine folk of the Rail Forums, should I consider this sufficient and is there method for taking it further? My season ticket costs just over £3k for the year and this has been going on since January. I'm not usually one for making much of a fuss but the service has been so poor for so long and I'm fed up with it.

Thanks in advance.

Have you been making claims for delay compensation where you have had to miss trains due to overcrowding? That would always be the first avenue for compensation in my view - as it is relatively uncontroversial and simple.

However, it may be that you are not eligible for compensation as the resultant delays have been less than GA's 30 minute qualifying period. I can understand the frustration here. In terms of what you can do if you want to pursue the matter further, there are a few different options.

You could take the case to Transport Focus. They are a mediator between the passenger and the train company - that is, they try to make both sides come to an agreement. However, they are not an ombudsman and they have no power to impose a decision. It is possible that taking the matter to Transport Focus could see you being compensated by an amount you can accept - and that within a matter of months.

However, if you wish to go for a more 'robust' solution (or if you have already tried Transport Focus and gotten no further) then you would have to proceed legally. I would have thought the most appropriate grounds for any claim would be the Consumer Rights Act 2015 - specifically Section 49(1). This Section implies a term into every consumer contract, that the trader will perform the service with reasonable care and skill. The question would be whether providing overcrowded short-formed services constitutes a lack of reasonable care and skill.

I'm not sure it's would be a watertight claim, but there could be an argument that they know of the problem and the level of overcrowding and yet continue to operate short-formed services. They would then quite rightly point out, in their defence, that there is a massive shortage of available trains currently, and that in any case they are constrained in which trains they can provide through the Department of Transport and Network Rail.

In the context of a season ticket, the appropriate remedy for a breach of an implied term from Section 49(1) is that provided under Section 54 - specifically Section 54(3)(b) - of a price reduction. This would mean a partial refund of the season ticket, as described by Section 56(1), depending on the degree to which it was judged that the service is non-compliant with the term implied under Section 49(1).

All of the above would of course be a lengthy and potentially stressful experience - however, if successful then it may mean obtaining significantly greater compensation than would otherwise be obtained through the informal route. There would be no need to involve a solicitor (and, indeed, you would not recover the cost of one), as the claim process can be done entirely by a litigant-in-person.

 

[najaB]

Essentially, my question is, in the opinions of the fine folk of the Rail Forums, should I consider this sufficient and is there method for taking it further? My season ticket costs just over £3k for the year and this has been going on since January. I'm not usually one for making much of a fuss but the service has been so poor for so long and I'm fed up with it.

How often have you been unable to travel?

 

[MP33]

I have received compensation from GA. Although in my case this is for 1st class being declassified and also being thrown off a broken down train in the morning mid journey and being unable to get anywhere near 1st class on an already packed service with people standing in there who have been forced out of the vestibule.

When I read the GA statement regarding the improving situation I thought that things were getting worse. This week there appear to be slightly less short formed 321s and GA appear to be enforcing 1st class more as they feel that no one is now being forced in there.

Last week on the day of the England game the train were packed and someone started argueing with the Inspector that the train was short formed when it was not, the one before was. Their source was twitter which replaces my know it all friend said.

 

[Hadders]

As far as I know there’s no legal capacity for a train (unlike a bus or coach). The decision on whether the train is too full to board is yours. Although I hate overcrowded trains as much as you do this is generally a good thing as compulsory reservations would mean the end of the walk on railway.

Technically you pay to be transported to your destination. If you decide not to board the train due to over crowding then you can claim delay repay.

Contractually GA are not obliged to provide any payment to you for a short forked service so

 

[CyrusWuff]

Another issue that could potentially come into play is that, whilst a given service is normally a certain length, the franchise agreement may specify that it only needs to be something else. If that were the case, I don't know how that would affect the outcome of a potential CRA claim.

 

[northwichcat]

Another issue that could potentially come into play is that, whilst a given service is normally a certain length, the franchise agreement may specify that it only needs to be something else. If that were the case, I don't know how that would affect the outcome of a potential CRA claim.

Or the requirement might be a simple as providing x seats on services arriving in y between two times, allowing the operator to rob Peter to pay Paul if Paul might have to wait 60 minutes for the next service if the train is too full to board but Peter only has to wait 15 minutes.

 

[Bantamzen]

Do rail franchises even specify minimum capacity levels? I was always under the impression that it was based on minimum service levels that formed part of the franchise requirements. With the varying levels and capacities on many TOC's units, it would be difficult to say the least to be able to nail down minimum number of seats and/or standees as a franchise requirement, without the DfT allowing ROSCOs & TOCs to procure additional stock for standby purposes.

As for the OPs query, I'd say in the first instance if you don't consider it a reasonable compensation (it is subjective after all, many passengers have that kind of journey as par for the course with no compensation), then politely reply why you don't think it is, maybe suggesting a sum comparable to the number of times short forms occur versus the cost of the season ticket & see what they say? Legal action would as suggested be lengthy, difficult and could prove to be difficult to win. So maybe an alternative, are there occasions where you could delay these journeys for a later service & make representation for a Delay Repay claim on the basis that you were unable to board your planned service?

 

[northwichcat]

Do rail franchises even specify minimum capacity levels? I was always under the impression that it was based on minimum service levels that formed part of the franchise requirements. With the varying levels and capacities on many TOC's units, it would be difficult to say the least to be able to nail down minimum number of seats and/or standees as a franchise requirement, without the DfT allowing ROSCOs & TOCs to procure additional stock for standby purposes.

In the old Northern franchise agreements there were a list of services which had to have 4 carriages and the franchise were penalised for short forming those services. I think in the new one they are required to provide a certain number of seats overall all services arriving in the main cities in the morning peak and leaving the main cities in the evening peak, so one Leeds departure could be strengthened at the expense of another Leeds service but a Leeds service couldn't be strengthened at the expense of a Newcastle service.

(I realise the thread isn't about Northern I'm just saying what happens with Northern because I'm more familiar with it.)

 

[richiejv]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I've decided to take it up with Transport Focus and see what they recommend. No idea if anything will come of it and I might end up not getting anywhere, but, don't ask don't get!

 

[mallard]

The decision on whether the train is too full to board is yours.

When the train is so full that there physically isn't the room to board, there's no such decision being made.

Some TOCs (Northern for example) make it clear that not being able to board due to overcrowding is a valid reason to claim delay repay, but it does seem to be yet another railway "grey area". Odd how these "grey areas" are almost always in the TOC's favour...

 

[northwichcat]

As far as I know there’s no legal capacity for a train (unlike a bus or coach). The decision on whether the train is too full to board is yours.

So if a guard or member of platform staff says the train is full or you physically can't get on to the train without preventing the doors from closing, then it's 'your decision' to do what staff require or do what's required to not prevent the train from departing?

 

[Hadders]

In these circumstances you’d have to follow the advice of staff and not travel. You would be able to claim compensation for your delay.

My general point was about the walk on railway and some who think standing should not be allowed, or claim that train companies oversell seats. Ideally i’d want everyone to have a seat but i’d rather stand than be unable to travel because of compulsory reservations.

 

[306024]

Only ever claimed once due to a short form that resulted in a 30+ minute delay at destination and GA paid up fairly. If you weren't delayed more than 30 mins £20 is is indeed a good will gesture.

 

[Alfie1014]

This is an interesting area, there is no doubt that GA have been suffering from chronic short formations on all fleet types for some time now. They recently acknowledged this by putting out a statement about the GE EMU fleet a few weeks ago, (though the problem had been going on for many months before this). As we know the rural diesel has been stretched throughout the life of the Franchise and the Norwich hauled fleet has had its problems and is having them again due to improvement works at Crown Point.

Their latest performance figures state that 110 declared short formations took place in the period ending on 21st July, against a MAA of 58. Assuming that these apply to weekdays only this equates to around 5 a day. Yesterday morning they were advertising 50 plus on their twitter feed and Journey Check, significantly more than 5!

There are declared capacities for some services in the Franchise Agreement, (though not in the public versions), and these will almost certainly be for peak direction services only so most of the daily short forms will not incur any form of penalty. This makes some sense, for example a contra morning peak service from Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria that is ‘booked’ to be a 12 car train after working a fully loaded train into London probably needs less than 4 coaches worth of capacity so shouldn’t incur a pentalty if short formed. However a mid morning train from Norwich to Gt Yarmouth in the school holidays that is short formed to 1 coach will seriously inconvenience passengers either through the over crowding experienced on board or by having to use a bus run to supplement the train. The Yarmouth train almost certainly isn’t counted in the performance regime though but in my view should be. The number of measured trains in the regime is too low and in my view doesn’t adequately represent the true levels of overcrowding on many services. At the moment the incentives simply aren’t adequate and with a 30 minute delay repay don’t capture enough journeys.

The new train fleets will un-doudtedly help as will a move to a lower delay replay threshold but in the meantime keep up the pressure and it will be interesting to see what Transport Focus say and if they can get sight of the list of maeasured short forms?